Cookalarcha
Member
BTW I have not played DOTA 2 for a few days and god knows when I will get on for a game. But when is this patch due for release? Think Dire Tide will be patched in with this?
[DotA2] General DOTA 2 talk
- Thread starter Panda with issues...
- Start date
Nanor
Well-Known Member
We could see some funky play with supports buying sentries in an effort to counter ward.
Panda with issues...
Well-Known Member
Monday patch maybe?
And yeah, hopefully nanor.
And yeah, hopefully nanor.
Panda with issues...
Well-Known Member
Some general thoughts after the new patch, both from my own play and watching some pro games:
The changes to creep equilibrium on the outside lanes, combined with the changes to the pull camp and the way experience from neutrals is allocated have made trilanes less efficient and offlanes much stronger. The creep wave meets much closer to the offlane tower meaning that offlaners can farm more safely, as well as sap experience from the jungle more easily. For the team who's safelane it is, they probably now need to get a block off to try and restore the previous patch's creep equilibrium and regain the advantage, because if the offlaner blocks, the wave will be right up safe under the offlane tower. Concomitantly, there is probably much less requirement for the offlaner to block the pull camp with wards, since as it now spawns easy creeps, pulling is less effective (even with stacking) and 'pullng through' to another camp is almost mandatory now to make an effective pull and an effective trilane. The fact that the pull camp now comprises easy creeps and splits exp means it is far easier for the offlaner to harass the pull. On the side of the safelaners, they need to run a trilane really REALLY efficiently in order to gain the benefits of it, particularly against a single offlaner. Soaking exp and gold from pulling the lane isn't going to cut it really now, unless you pull through which is tricky, and unlikely to happen in pub games.
All this suggests that a shift from 3-1-1 to 2-1-2 is likely to happen, and to an extent, you can see this in some of the professional games in that you actually see dual lanes at times now, they are certainly less inefficient than they were previously. However, running 2-1-2 still has the same fundamental issue, which is only one solo lane causing experience inefficiencies. It also seems foolish in the extreme to waste all the advantages that have been handed on a plate to a solo offlaner, since it is now so much safer to play this role. It also means offensive/aggressive trilanes are far more viable, particularly for the radiant, who can now easily pull the lane from the dire camp near the lane (the dire pull through camp), and harass the pull camp with ease.
Ultimately, despite the jungle being changed around, I think that 2-1-1-1 will be even more powerful. Although Enigma suffers from the switching of the pull camp (since he normally really needs to farm the easy camp at the start), he, Enchantress and Chen are going to be really crucial picks as supports who can get a lot out of the jungle without needing to repeatedly farm the pull camp. Other more marginal junglers such as Lone Druid and Nature's Prophet are probably viable at the 4 role in pub games, particularly NP who can create treants to easily help the 5 role to 'pull through'.
The big winners (heroes) in this patch so far competitively seem to be Lich, Nightstalker and Luna. Lich and NS have become pretty much 1st pick/ban material. The changes to Lich's sacrifice and general abilities, when combined with the changes to the offlane have made him incredibly effective and annoying at holding down the enemy carry's exp. Nightstalker's ulti changes, the more repeated shorter day/night cycle, and the nerfs to a lot of heroes' night vision have made him very very relevent, he's seeing a lot of play as a 1 or 2 (or 3 in a dual lane). The change to Luna's moon glaives have made her mid-late game farming (inc jungling) and teamfight far more effective, and she's now a legitimate 1 role, or 2 in a pinch, particularly if you want to run a fast push strategy. Her passive also provides a bit of a counter to Night Stalker.
The changes to creep equilibrium on the outside lanes, combined with the changes to the pull camp and the way experience from neutrals is allocated have made trilanes less efficient and offlanes much stronger. The creep wave meets much closer to the offlane tower meaning that offlaners can farm more safely, as well as sap experience from the jungle more easily. For the team who's safelane it is, they probably now need to get a block off to try and restore the previous patch's creep equilibrium and regain the advantage, because if the offlaner blocks, the wave will be right up safe under the offlane tower. Concomitantly, there is probably much less requirement for the offlaner to block the pull camp with wards, since as it now spawns easy creeps, pulling is less effective (even with stacking) and 'pullng through' to another camp is almost mandatory now to make an effective pull and an effective trilane. The fact that the pull camp now comprises easy creeps and splits exp means it is far easier for the offlaner to harass the pull. On the side of the safelaners, they need to run a trilane really REALLY efficiently in order to gain the benefits of it, particularly against a single offlaner. Soaking exp and gold from pulling the lane isn't going to cut it really now, unless you pull through which is tricky, and unlikely to happen in pub games.
All this suggests that a shift from 3-1-1 to 2-1-2 is likely to happen, and to an extent, you can see this in some of the professional games in that you actually see dual lanes at times now, they are certainly less inefficient than they were previously. However, running 2-1-2 still has the same fundamental issue, which is only one solo lane causing experience inefficiencies. It also seems foolish in the extreme to waste all the advantages that have been handed on a plate to a solo offlaner, since it is now so much safer to play this role. It also means offensive/aggressive trilanes are far more viable, particularly for the radiant, who can now easily pull the lane from the dire camp near the lane (the dire pull through camp), and harass the pull camp with ease.
Ultimately, despite the jungle being changed around, I think that 2-1-1-1 will be even more powerful. Although Enigma suffers from the switching of the pull camp (since he normally really needs to farm the easy camp at the start), he, Enchantress and Chen are going to be really crucial picks as supports who can get a lot out of the jungle without needing to repeatedly farm the pull camp. Other more marginal junglers such as Lone Druid and Nature's Prophet are probably viable at the 4 role in pub games, particularly NP who can create treants to easily help the 5 role to 'pull through'.
The big winners (heroes) in this patch so far competitively seem to be Lich, Nightstalker and Luna. Lich and NS have become pretty much 1st pick/ban material. The changes to Lich's sacrifice and general abilities, when combined with the changes to the offlane have made him incredibly effective and annoying at holding down the enemy carry's exp. Nightstalker's ulti changes, the more repeated shorter day/night cycle, and the nerfs to a lot of heroes' night vision have made him very very relevent, he's seeing a lot of play as a 1 or 2 (or 3 in a dual lane). The change to Luna's moon glaives have made her mid-late game farming (inc jungling) and teamfight far more effective, and she's now a legitimate 1 role, or 2 in a pinch, particularly if you want to run a fast push strategy. Her passive also provides a bit of a counter to Night Stalker.
Cookalarcha
Member
Hey guys. If there are folk up for some games or Diretide hit me up. I will be free for 11 days starting Thursday.
Also anyone who has no interest in boxes may I ask to take the new ones off your hands? Mainly Diretide ones but any of the new ones will do.
Thanks
Also anyone who has no interest in boxes may I ask to take the new ones off your hands? Mainly Diretide ones but any of the new ones will do.
Thanks
Cookalarcha
Member
If anyone wants to trade I can get the Evergreen Treant recipe for Natures Prophet if anyone wants it. I already made one for myself but have enough Fragments for another. If not I will just get the chests. Let me know asap.