[DotA2] General DOTA 2 talk

[Panda with issues...]

Some basic experiences in Captain's Draft:

Overall, this mode COULD be really good. Basically, it's like RD, but with the added bonus of two bans on each side, and the Captain picking.

Unfortunately, the method of picking the captain is literally to click the button ASAP, resulting in a mad scramble. No votes, no random designation of captain nothing.

And once you've played a few games of Captain's draft, you'll be madly clicking that part of the screen on the loading section repeatedly I promise you.

The options:

1. You luck out, click the button fast enough and get (theoretically) to design a non-moronic draft. Likelihood: 1 in 5. Realistically, what this means is you get people desperately asking for heroes with no concept of realistic laning strategies. 'I want windrunner' - 'No, we already have an offlaner and both supports and a mid, we need a carry, we're not picking windrunner' *Disconnects*. 'Ban Riki' - 'No, Riki is shit, we're not banning riki' - 'You'll be sorry bro when riki rapes us, Riki so OP' *Opposing team bans Riki when BH and Slardar are in the pool* FACEPALM. Opposing team's draft is useless, drafter complains about how his teamates suck when he didn't pick any supports against a balanced lineup, has no concept of how to lane the choices he did make, then went MoM void, cries all game on the way to the loss. An alternative of this is where the opposing team pans their 'Captain' for their *cough* 'UNORTHODOX'* draft strategy saying they had no input.
2. Someone else clicks faster (Likelihood 4 in 5), and you spend your last moments before the draft fervently praying to the cruel and capricious DotA gods that A) They know what they're doing, B) They can toe the line between accepting that some people might only be able to play certain characters, and that they need to pick a lineup that actually fucking works. Realistically what this means is you are offering some input, which may or may not be heeded. This really is a spectrum, from the total fail of first pick Nyx Assassin/no carry no support draft (yeah, it happened) to the utterly sensible where the captain took some discussion, some feedback and we went in with a lineup we were comfortable with, a sensible role distribution and laning strategy and proceeded to crucify the opposition.In the middle of the spectrum lie 'Captain doesn't speak English despite being on an English language server. FUCK', 'Captain refuses to pick a carry'. 'Captain fails to pick on time and you get a random hero nobody knows how to play (in this case a Lone Druid)'. This is like a chose your own draft adventure story. Proceed to 3.
3. Team drafted, with luck you haven't already seen the future played out before you by the utter incompetence and disappointment of a moronic draft, and you think you might be able to give a go of it. The other team doesn't have a perfect lane set up. In this case, the options are almost entirely foreseeable: 'You've chatted things through with the Captain, it wasn't the draft you would have made, but it's not a car crash, you think you've got lanes and roles sorted out and everyone's on the same page. You move with dark seer to the offlane, block the opposing pull camp with an observer, get ready for some tough, hardcore suicide lane action of ion shell farming and narrow surge escapes, when, WHAT'S THIS? LUNA? WTF ARE YOU DOING HERE? Why are you not in mid like we all agreed? There's NO ONE in mid now. Try desperately to explain to Luna that she should go to mid, how you prioritised farm and XP for her there as she was an important part of the Captain's strategy (which he shared with the team), Enigma Jungle, DS offlane, Luna mid, Tide and accidental Lone Druid bottom safelane. Luna refuses to go mid (normally people are fighting over it). Fine, you switch up and take the farm in mid. Luna immediately notices she's on her own, starts complaining, needs her hand held while she feeds like a small child. Eventually, after first blood and another death, you convince her to go mid, where she immediately starts to perform better and feel safer. DS is back where he belongs. The rest of the game goes downhill as the outrageous teamfight potential assembled by the Captain is wasted as Luna constantly split pushes and gets herself killed. On minimal offlane farm you assemble mek and pipe for the team, but it's just not enough.

It's a dark dark world in Captain's draft. You can try to assemble a team which works and it can work like a dream, or it can be hamstrung by people who seem to want to CHOOSE their characters. This isn't all pick or random draft. If you want to pick your own hero, fuck off back there. When it goes ok, it can go like an absolute dream, but if the wheels start wobbling, it goes bad fast. Basically my general experience is that Captain's draft just brings out the extremes of DotA, and typically just results in some people crying because they should be playing all pick. It's weird, you're signing up to play a mode where you put your DotA fate more in the hands of another player than any other mode (except strict CM), and yet people seem to get upset when decisions are made for them. Maybe these people are searching on all game types? IDK.


*Unorthodox in this case just means SHIT.

 

[Panda with issues...]

Cook and I just had 2 back to back games where I drafted as Captain. One went awfully, the other went smooth as silk.

Big differences between the games were probably team quality, and draft plan. Game 1 I probably let people have too much input into selections, and it ended up with a beatdown. We struggled a bit with who wanted to play what, and it meant the draft I made didn't function so well.

Second game draft was more confident, team was much better (even asking who was the highest level, and letting me draft after it turned out I was twice the closest teammate). Went with a fast midgame strat, with an offlane clockwerk, mid sniper, jungle ursa and a mirana dazzle dual safelane. The opposing team went for an aggressive trilane of Kunkka Lion and Disrupter, with a mid Magnus and a solo safelane bounty hunter. I crucified the bounty hunter in lane, Cogs, dust of appearance, battery assault meant 2 quick kills, and I was level 7 and ganking their trilane to take the pressure off the Mirana-Dazzle combo while sniper and Ursa farmed up a bit.

I know that early on, Cook (Mirana) and Dazzle were having a bit of a tough time, but it all worked out ok in the end. They held the safelane tower until the Clockwerk cavalry arrived, and it was the other team crying OP. Just goes to show what a sensible team and a sensible draft can achieve.

 

[Cookalarcha]

I do however believe if Panda went Clockwerk the first game we probably had a good change of winning. (I did not know how good he was with him )
I am definitely looking forward to this 5v5 THN battle that will hopefully happen a night/ day I'm not at work. If I can I will book off call too so I do not potentially ruin everyone fun.

Also guys how many THNers play on DOTA? I only have a handful on my friends list so it would be nice to have more.
I only have Panda, Nanor, Gizmo, Zoub and Ronin.
I would also appreciate any folks custom hero builds, 95% of the time I use the top rated shown in game and only have 2 proper ones I made myself for Juggernaut feel free to use/ try them, I have had great success using them with a good team.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/322657080
http://dotabuff.com/matches/322624421

 

[Ronin Storm]

Other THNers who play DOTA regularly or semi-regularly:

Traxata, Ghostwolf, DocBot, 3dge, Reaper, waterproofbob

I know SgtFury and Angelic both play, but I've not seen either in game for a long time.

 

[Panda with issues...]

There's also Zhar, though I think he's significantly better than us, as well as Psisoldier, who has indicated in chat plays plenty.

 

[SgtFury]

Yeah, I do play DOTA but bit sucky at it and tend to get carried by my team if I ever win...sometimes pull off good moves but not often .

Also tend to find lately that RL stuff is taking so much time that I only have short stints on the PC, so tend to play Feed The Beast Singleplayer when I get online no time stresses and if I have to walk away I don't piss off 9 people.

 

[waterproofbob]

The only day I can currently possibly do is Saturdays due to the time difference. Unless you all want to play at 3 in the morning .

Once I'm back in the UK will defo be up for some games though.

 

[Panda with issues...]

3 in the morning you say? Oh wait, thesis

 

[Nanor]

Quite the hive of activity. Within my group of players we can sometimes get enough for a 5v5 though it usually ends up with one team getting steamrolled. We can't quite figured out an equilibrium. I'll talk to them later about maybe making themselves known on the forums.

 

[Ronin Storm]

I'll talk to them later about maybe making themselves known on the forums.

That's Gizmo et al?

 

[waterproofbob]

I've started to gain a little group of US guys who have deemed me not entirely shit and added me on steam. So hopefully I'll get some more regular team games.

 

[Nanor]

That's Gizmo et al?

'tis indeed.

 

[Panda with issues...]

 

[Panda with issues...]

Fucking HUGE patch in terms of impact on the way:

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=109826&p=777239#post777239

 

[Panda with issues...]

Salient points:

Buyback nerfs
Denying a ranged hero no longer gives them less XP than a melee one.
Non ancient neutrals split exp within ALL heroes in the area, not just those of the team that killed them.
Ancient dragons have flying movement - problems for some of the competitive ancient farming techniques.
Day/night cycle now 4 mins not 6.
Loss of enhanced night vision from a bunch of heroes
Pseudorandom Roshan respawn times to create a 'buffer zone' making it less predictable when to go for it. When aegis expires, gives carrying hero a full heal over 5 secs.
Starting gold up to 625 from 603. Slightly faster natural gold gain.

Amongst others:
Alch nerf.
Significant Axe changes.
Batrider nerf.
Bristleback buffs.
Massive brood buffs
Clinkz buffs
Significant dazzle changes
Significant disruppter buffs
Elder Titan nerf
Invoker buff
Kunkka buff
Naga nerf
OD serious nerf
Blinks allowed now on pudge and venge
Significant slardar buff
Slark buff and serious changes (looks utterly foul), in his ultimate he is TOTALLY IMMUNE TO TRUESIGHT
Sniper buff, fun times in pubs
Slight spirit breaker nerfs
More Treant nerfs
Slight troll nerf, probably not the last
Significant veno changes
Significant warlock changes
Necessary windrunner ulti buff

Bottle cost now 650
Clarities and salves no longer sharable
Improved dust slow
Flying courier can't be purchased until 3mins after creep spawn
Linkens now a transferable effect
Lots of ward changes
Significant tranq boots buff

 

[waterproofbob]

What I'm somewhat confused by is the number of people on that forum who are saying that they have ruined slark?

Unless I'm misunderstanding how he is played didn't they just make him even more of a beast when played well?

I'm still too new to be able to really judge by numbers alone how much of a difference this will make.

Also seems to me that pudge is now even more of a no1 ban target.

 

[Panda with issues...]

People have no idea what they're talking about, unless they mean ruined for anyone that has to play him.

It's flat out foul. While in his ultimate, he cannot be dusted, seen by gem, wards or TOWERS, targeted by anything (other than an AOE), no stuns, auto attacks, items like hex, heaven's halberd etc. Prepare for tower diving Slarks to be the new equivalent to sniper/drow/spirit breaker hate in pub games. At level 6, he'll basically slaughter any support or squishy under a tower, and get away scott-free without anything you can do about it (except complain on the dev forums). Unless you have an AOE stun, you can literally walk slark into a team of 5, kill one of their supports and walk back out again. He's definitely a lot stronger IMO. He's now more of a viable mid, and potentially an offlane too, since at lvl 6 he'll be nigh on unkillable in ganks.

I doubt Pudge will see much more in the way of picks and bans tbh, though it's a decent little improvement.

Offlaners got a significant boost with the neutral XP, slight lane flow and courier changes. Junglers on the whole took a bit of a nerf, due to the neutral creep XP changes, and supports are going to have a different role considering they can no longer pool tangoes clarities and salves. They get a little boost to dewarding.

Prepare for the courier to be even less available at the start of pub matches, since without a very fast flying upgrade no doubt it will be pulled all over the map.

 

[Nanor]

Clarities and salves no longer sharable

You can't transfer them to another player's inventory, but you can activate it on them so no real harm done.

I like the Axe changes. The battle hunger nerf makes it considerably less potent but the speed buffs are nice for chasing down guys. The tranquil boot change also means being able to stay in lane longer with him.

Regarding "Pudge can now use blink dagger". What happened if you bought it on him before? It just didn't let you?

 

[Cookalarcha]

Some stuff looks sweet but I guess it's all rebalance. Shame some item costs increased but on the other hand starting gold and regen rates are increased. Oh well makes it more fun to learn the changes I guess

 

[Panda with issues...]

You can't transfer them to another player's inventory, but you can activate it on them so no real harm done.

I like the Axe changes. The battle hunger nerf makes it considerably less potent but the speed buffs are nice for chasing down guys. The tranquil boot change also means being able to stay in lane longer with him.

Regarding "Pudge can now use blink dagger". What happened if you bought it on him before? It just didn't let you?

Before Pudge and Venge just couldn't buy blink daggers.

The removal of regen pooling is a big deal for offlaners, as they are unlikely to ever see a support during the part of the laning phase where regen is critical, it means their team are unable to set them up to survive as well as before. It also means that you can't easily leave your carry with a spare salve etc if you go gank mid as a support.

Since the number of wards available at the start of the game hasn't increased, wtf are supports going to spend all their money on? We may start to see things like ring of regen to build into mek at the start, or potentially more boots starts? Saved money towards boots?