25 Man - Progression

Pwnstar

Pwnstar

Member
Right, word on the street is that in the not too distant future we are going to be recruiting a few more players and will be starting to clear 25-man content. As it stands 25-man content is a difficulty jump from 10-man in almost all cases, due to this i want to see everyone playing their class correctly and getting the most they can out of their gear. With the release of the new conquest and triumph badges the gear you can get from simply doing heroics is staggering and would put you in more than good stead to clear 25-man content easily, consider this a Call to Arms for all of you looking to raid, get the badges and get the gear.

Gearing itself is a complex affair in many cases, so find out what stats are most vital, how much you need for caps and what to aim for. This is all over the internet for every class with the maths worked out by people who play to win. Read up.

Gear by itself however certainly does not make the player, i want everyone to learn their class inside and out, far too often have i seen players with high level gear that do half as well as they should be doing. Learn your priorities and/or rotations until you recite them in your sleep. Raid awareness is key, you need to know what is going on around you at all times, it's pointless even being in a raid if you are going to get killed by something as simple as not moving from a bosses path.

Below are a few good resources easily found on the interwebs, I request that people find other good resources and post links in replies to this for other to use.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/ - A must for all classes. Read, learn, recreate.
http://shadowpanther.net/ - A fantacstic rogue gearing guide.
http://www.theholypaladin.co/ - A great resource for al things Holydin related

This is all...
In b4 long post is long
 
Sasser

Sasser

New Member
been there, done that.

On a more serious note, you are absolutely right, 25 man raiding is and has always been a vast increase in difficulty, especially because it needs more organization and simply there are more people around that need to act as an efficient team.

Getting there requires all participants to be as much at the top of their game as possible. If anyone needs help or advice, I am always there to help you out BEFORE the raid - we can't afford having to devote time to individual raiders during a raid night when we do 25 mans, so better be prepared.

That said, let's have some "serious fun"!
 
Zhinrak

Zhinrak

In Cryo Sleep
Im all for this.

Not sure how often ill be around in the coming months [having just started my 3rd year of university] but id definately like to see some 25 man raids going. Especially as im personalyl finding it hard to draw entertainment out this game these days.

I have to agree with sabot though, a number of people in this guild have the gear, but arent matching the expectations that come with being so geared and to be blunt, awareness has always been a major failing point in this guild for a long time. In some cases it may be understandable but not excusable. If we are going to go to 25 man raids we will need effort put in from all raiders, every attempt needs to be made to Sign up, Attend and then do your damn best to do all that you can without making silly mistakes.

For anyone who feels that they are not meeting their own potential, as Sabot has pointed out, do some research, find out what conforms to a good talent build and rotation, and if you cand find the information the forums are here to ask.
 
Windzarko

Windzarko

Well-Known Member
Small thing to add; use Elitist Jerks as a reference tool and set of guidelines, but take what they say with a pinch of salt, some of the spec guides in there contain great steaming piles of bollocks, such as the Shadow Priest guide (where many posters would rather drop Improved Spirit Tap in favour of Improved Shadowform and Pyschic Horror; in a PvE raiding environment, that isn't a "preferential spending of points", it's stupidity).
 
SwampFae

SwampFae

Super Moderator
Staff member
Windzarko said:
Small thing to add; use Elitist Jerks as a reference tool and set of guidelines, but take what they say with a pinch of salt, some of the spec guides in there contain great steaming piles of bollocks, such as the Shadow Priest guide (where many posters would rather drop Improved Spirit Tap in favour of Improved Shadowform and Pyschic Horror; in a PvE raiding environment, that isn't a "preferential spending of points", it's stupidity).
Click to expand...

/Agree tbh.
Looked at it earlier at found some of the spec suggestions to be hilarious :p
 
Pwnstar

Pwnstar

Member
Elitistjerks IS right, they use maths, maths + games = infallable. Anything you see on EJ will be the ideal way to play the class, no pinches of salt.
 
Huung

Huung

Well-Known Member
Pwnstar said:
Elitistjerks IS right, they use maths, maths + games = infallable. Anything you see on EJ will be the ideal way to play the class, no pinches of salt.
Click to expand...

The only time I've ever diagreed with this was in the first month when DKs were raiding. It took them a whole month to do copious amounts of maths and know everything inside out! Slackers!

But seriously, those guys know what they're doing, EJ's Think Tank is God.
 
Windzarko

Windzarko

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the Think Tank is god. The normal threads have to be treated with care at times, though. Like I said, the Shadow Priest one has a lot of bollocks in it amongst the good info.
 
kspr

kspr

In Cryo Sleep
i would like to raid again. but i wont be able to in about 2 weeks, and it would probably be with my warlock.
 
Huung

Huung

Well-Known Member
Right, as I know he'll poke me to do it at some point, here's the shammy resources I use:

Enhancement - Been using this thread since I started shamanning ages ago (back when I was the only active shaman in The Haven :p)

Caps, gems and stat preferences etc - This little gem I came across at the start of Wrath, and although it's mildy outdated now in terms of the gear section, it's still the resource I use for checking the different caps. (It is still updated, but Levva is more often found on EJ itself).

Another name to look out for on EJ in terms of shaman stuff is Binkenstein, who was my idol and role model when I was ele specced at 70. Both Levva and Binkenstein know their stuff inside out, so any info from them is more than trustable.

I've honestly not read that much on resto stuff, other than the think tank on EJ found here
Resto is easy enough, Earth Shield up on the tnakerist, Riptide when available and LHW spam - stack crit and SP mainly, with int and mp5 as backup for those 10min encounters. I've not OOM'd yet, even in UD and ToC, and I've only got about 450mp5 when buffed.
 
Windzarko

Windzarko

Well-Known Member
Gemming and enchants; most people have it down reasonably well, but I think we could do a little better on this front.

If any raiders require specific enchants for their gear, then poke the guild to see who can do what (we can do most of the enchants bar the Ulduar drops), and if you're a raider enchanting your mainspec gear, the guild bank can help fund your enchantments (although don't expect help putting Berserking and other really expensive ones on bad weapons :p ).

Similarly, on the front of gems; some people don't seem to realise how important Epic Gems are. Yes, compared to the blue-quality gems, it's only "a few" stat points gained. But every bit counts, and if you have plenty of sockets upgraded from blue-quality gemmage to epic gemmage, that's a LOT of gain. We have uncut epic gems in the guild bank, we have the means and people to transmute more, and uncut gems can be gained through Emblems (20 for red/blue/yellow, 10 for green/purple/orange) and Honour (10k honour points = any uncut), and we have a lot of cuts available. If you have a piece of gear that is T8 equivalent or better, get it stuffed with epic gems!

If you need belt buckles, poke the guild blacksmiths (myself included). If you need a gem cut we can't yet do, poke the jewelcrafters and see if someone can get it quickly!

You don't need to resort to the AH for this stuff, and you don't need to hold back because it seems like a "small upgrade"; a lot of "small" upgrades makes a big difference, and I think a lot of people could benefit from it, so everyone take a look at your gear and see what you can do with these simple, easy-to-do upgrades!

And if you're not sure which gems are good, go check ElitistJerks, and remember that you don't always have to match socket bonuses (hell, I almost NEVER do :p )
 
Huung

Huung

Well-Known Member
Another little thing to remember on the gem front: prismatic gems can do in any socket, and if there's a specific colour of gem which really isn't great for you, but the socket bonus is, consider putting the 1 prismatic you're allowed into this socket. For example, on my enh T9 gloves there's a blue socket, which is the worst of the 3 colours for me, so I put the +10 all stats into there, as the 8 AP bonus is worth having.

As a note to the guild bank, I'm more than willing to use my daily transmute on Itchi to change up some of the blue gems in the bank to epic ones. Supply me with the mats and I'll give you the epic equivalent. If I keep my procs I should have enough for myself, and the gbank is getting something out of it.
 
Windzarko

Windzarko

Well-Known Member
Huung said:
Another little thing to remember on the gem front: prismatic gems can do in any socket, and if there's a specific colour of gem which really isn't great for you, but the socket bonus is, consider putting the 1 prismatic you're allowed into this socket. For example, on my enh T9 gloves there's a blue socket, which is the worst of the 3 colours for me, so I put the +10 all stats into there, as the 8 AP bonus is worth having.
Click to expand...

Thanks for saying that, knew I forgot something >_>

I did the same with Ari; used to always have the Prismatic in my helm until I got a helm with a red-and-meta setup, so I could move the all-stats prismatic gem to my belt's blue socket. Socket bonuses are rare for me to get, and this might be the case for other people as well, so look into this stuff carefully. Small tweaks can give surprising results.
 
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