Achievements - Good, Bad, or indifferent?

[thatbloke]

So in recent shoutbox activity I seem to have inadvertantly started a discussion about achievements in games and their value to the game as a whole.

Prime examples of achievement systems are the Gamerscore you have as an XBox gamer, and also the new achievements being added to TF2.

So I ask you, what, if anything, do having achievements in games do for you? I guess the main aim of them is to increase the replay value of the games that have them - are you one of these people that must play a game to death until you have literally every single achievement available?

Or are you someone who plays a game, enjoys it, and doesn't really even notice that the achievements are there?

Me personally? Achievements mean nothing. Maybe it's something to do with the definition of just what an achievement is... does this definition change from game to game? Platform to platform?

Discuss!

 

[Silk]

So in recent shoutbox activity I seem to have inadvertantly started a discussion about achievements in games and their value to the game as a whole.

Prime examples of achievement systems are the Gamerscore you have as an XBox gamer, and also the new achievements being added to TF2.

So I ask you, what, if anything, do having achievements in games do for you? I guess the main aim of them is to increase the replay value of the games that have them - are you one of these people that must play a game to death until you have literally every single achievement available?

Or are you someone who plays a game, enjoys it, and doesn't really even notice that the achievements are there?

Me personally? Achievements mean nothing. Maybe it's something to do with the definition of just what an achievement is... does this definition change from game to game? Platform to platform?

Discuss!

Depends. I don't like them or see the point to them in terms of "bragging rights".

I prefer it when they unlock extra content in the game. e.g. Wallpapers, game art, so on. Or extra customization.. like I think they'll be doing in Battlefield Heroes?

 

[waterproofbob]

Achievements can be an arse and some are tedious and pointless, but some really improve your skill in playing the game and teach you a lot about positioning and how to play the game better.

If you are not playing higher skilled clan match style matches then achievements can be a way of improving the way you play and expanding your skill set within the game.

For example the first time I played CoD through, because there was the achievement system in place I used a good range of weapons that has meant that in clan matches and general in the game in the future I've been able to pick up weapons and use them where I wouldn't be able to otherwise. Also some of the other achivements like the cooking nade one meant I very quickly got the timing of cooked nades very early on.

Also I consider the levels in a game to be an achievement as you have to reach a certain amount of XP within the game allowing you to gain new upgrades and new weapons. In that regard for me pretty much any game I've played online except CSS have achievements that from a playing in public regard have a large influence on the game.

They don't make the game better and don't really bother me, I go for them to get what they give. I like the novelty of new guns for a bit.

For me achievements in no way make or break a game however they can add a new level to them. I much prefer the limited weapon and resource aspect of clan matches, but the achievement structure in most FPSs these days and in fact all games make public play on occasions almost bareable.

 

[Ronin Storm]

I feel there is a difference between achievements and advancement.

Achievements are more badges of merit indicating successfully meeting certain criteria.

Advancement implies the acquisition of more or a wider range of power for the game in question.

Some games have both achievements and advancement. Some of those link advancement and achievements together.

For example:

X360 games (all?) have achievements. These are badges earned for doing stuff in the game. They may be simple such as completing a level or killing X number of zombies. Alternatively, they may be more inventive and encourage you to try out more of the features of the game such as combining particular weapons to achieve cool effects you might not have realised on your own. However, the gaining of these achievements doesn't give you anything more than points, either for bragging rights, a sense of achievement or for a little competition between friends.

Most MMORPGs contain advancement through experience and levelling. This is a gradual accrual of power usually through the repeated killing of mobs. Kill monster, get gold, buy bigger sword, kill bigger monster, repeat. It's the "kill bigger monster" and "buy bigger sword" that really is the pull there.

Some MMORPGs contain both advancement and achievements, such as Lord of the Rings Online, but the two aren't very closely linked. For example, for killing X number of wolves you can get the title "Wolfslayer" to go after your name but that title doesn't actually do anything. Obviously, killing the wolves also contributed to your advancement in the game but the relationship between the two was very soft.

Then, of course, there's games like CoD4 where advancement and achievement are fundamentally linked. Advance a level, get a perk or a new gun, simple as that.

Now, given those four combinations, I think there's room for a lot of variety according to what you find interesting. Personally, I both sides of the coin but actually appreciate them being separated so that I don't necessarily have to advance to gain achievements, nor the other way around. Achievements then become little personal goals that I can opt in or out of as I wish, and sometimes complete as a byproduct of doing something else anyhow.

Are achievements and advancement a good thing? Only as good as their particular implementation for the audience they're intended for. A hardcore group of power levellers aren't going to enjoy a shallow advancement curve very much (probably). A casual collector of badges isn't going to enjoy grinding for dozens of hours just to get a couple of measly gamerpoints. Different strokes and all that.

Personally, I like challenging but short advancement curves and plentiful but inventive achievements but I tend to prefer that they are not linked.

 

[Huung]

For some reason Ive been gifted (possibly cursed) with the love of grinding. I dont seem to get bored, and have an insane amount of patience when it comes to most things, and as such, achievements for me play on that.

If it gives me something to do beyond the standard linear confines of most games, and broadens what I can do within the game, even if boring by general standards, then I'll do it, just because its there.

A good example of this is crafting professions in games. Im a nut for them, and when I played the LOTRO beta, I went and got Grand Master in all my crafting skills before the game was released (the highest rank). It was overall pointless as the characters were then deleted, but I enjoyed grinding my way to a title that I knew few would have due to how boring most would find it.

I agree with what Ronin said about achievements and advancements being different, and different games having different combinations of them, although I'd never really thought in depth enough to break it down quite that far...

In depth discussion about game mechanics - we're all more than just pretty faces eh?

Well... except Bob. He's just pretty

 

[Ronin Storm]

In depth discussion about game mechanics - we're all more than just pretty faces eh?

I do game design analysis for fun.