Brain steroids, is this an america only phenomina or have you experienced them ?

Haven

Administrator
Staff member
I spotted an interesting slashdot article that really got me thinking. The article links to the washington post where they discuss the use of mental stimulants to improve mental performance in the US.

I'm sure we all wish we didn't all show signs of ADD when we're forced to study something uninteresting. Likewise increased short term memory would certainly make my life easier (I increasingly rely on my palm handheld as a memory buffer). I'm wondering how effective these drugs are at making us more than what we are naturally (or indeed how much the pressures of modern information overload and regular stimulants ... caffeine in my case ... have affected our natural mental capacity), I've no idea of potential side effects or how noticable the beneftis are.

So, what I'm curious about is has anyone used these ? Do you know someone who has used them. Having been through university (twice) I've no personal experience of this in the UK and would love to hear from anyone who has.

Have a read of the article and post up your experiences (first, second or third hand) or just your thoughts opinions (keep this thread factually based please - uninformed rants that fail to support themselves will be removed).
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Oh my, I had no idea that the world was moving to such a place at such speed. I've been reading all sorts of science fiction for years where the protagonists and their adversaries would wire themselves up on this or that designer chemical to achieve super speed, super strength or razor sharp reflexes. It's like cyberpunk now...

Have I ever used these drugs? No. Would I? In all likelihood, no.

I've worked, in different ways, pretty hard over the past eight years. I've worked on a randomly rotating 24 hour shift pattern, one pattern of which involved 24 hours in two 12 hour batches to cover half the weekend. I've worked 55/60 hour weeks, probably for two weeks back-to-back, now three times this year. That's all really very tiring, physically, mentally and emotionally. I get very tetchy by the end of those patches, dream angry dreams, sit for a few minutes at a time stewing in fury directed at anything that happens to be "wrong" with the world. I wonder why? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the body and mind both need rest? I can't imagine where I got that idea from.

While I was working the shift patterns it became difficult to see my friends. I'd get up after they'd all gone to work or university. I'd get home after they'd all gone to bed. I might chat to one or two online overnight if they were nocturnal at the time, but I started to shave my sleep shorter and shorter. I think I was down to four hours sleep on most nights, with intermittent 14/16 hour sleeps to recover when I was on a three day break. I was taking Pro Plus and Red Bull in copious quantities to stay sufficiently alert -- that's caffeine and saturated sugar solutions for those paying attention at the back. I was also commuting on the train and had chance for a 20/25 minute "power" nap on the way into work and on the way home. To be honest, I think those naps were the things that actually kept me sane over the nine months I was on shifts.

I used to drink a lot of Coca Cola, the fully caffeinated and sugared variety, but I've never imbibed similar quantities of coffee or tea. Many people seem to live on coffee, rely on it to get them out of bed or something... never been there, even at my most exhausted. My body sends me "you feel ill, stay in bed" signals before I arrive there.

Recently, I'd save a strong cup of coffee to get me past working at 22:00, and right at the end of May I was borrowing sugar and caffeine from Red Bull to keep me awake. However, through that same period I've been taking Adrenal Support (blend of Wild Yam, Saw Palmetto, Magnesium, Potassium and Chromium, in appropriate quantities), under direction. The caffeine helps me get past a particular problem on that day but I avoid, if at all possible, becoming dependent on it. What caffeine have I had today? None at all... no tea, no coffee, no fizzy drinks, no chocolate. I have, however, started on my daily 3 litres of water and will shortly get a large glass of fruit juice. Why? Because my body needs the water and goodness in the juice, and it sure as hell doesn't need the stimulants.

What of all this has helped the most?

Well, the long hours on caffeine and sugar worked with me when I was 22. I tried it again when I was 25, post that metabolic change that hits us all at one time or another, believing I could do it in the same way. I couldn't and I felt really ill trying. I threw some caffeine at it and I just felt more ill. The first five of the past six years I've had high comparitive sick days (10+, I believe, including one period where I was off for nearly two months feeling really crappy). I've done a whole bunch of things to change my dietary habits from junk food and caffeine, long hours with no rest and so on.

In the past 6 months I've had 1 day off sick. I drink 2 to 3 litres of bottled water a day. When I'm pushing myself I take Adrenal Support and sometimes some other nutritive supplements (B vitamin complexes, Zinc, Potassium). If it is really late and I'm out of time on something then I'll push to, at most, two cups of coffee. The Red Bull thing, a couple of weeks ago, was stunningly rare (last Red Bull I drank was probably three years ago)... I was also desparate to get finished so I could have some holiday and my timescales were being shortened on me daily.

Despite all this, would I use these drugs? Nope. Why? I can see the effect as addictive: not physically addictive, necessarily, but imagine the high of "hey, I don't need sleep, I can keep going an extra 8 hours a day on this". How many times have you said to yourself that there aren't enough hours in the day? I've said that a lot. But can your body keep up with you? When are you resting? Are you recovering or just coming down when you're resting? How long 'til you need a drug to help you get over the drugs you've taken?

On occasion I arrive at a state of focus and clarity on a problem that surprises me, afterwards, with its intensity. But that razor clarity is good for certain kinds of problem -- hold together all these details for long enough to arrive at an understanding or a solution. Programming is full of that sort of problem, as is crisis management and likely all sorts of other areas. However, there is a different kind of thinking that I engage in that such a level of clarity would actively be unhelpful for... it's a kind of "brain wander" I engage in listening to certain kinds of music, usually when I'm thinking about game design, but I just wander here, inspect something, wander there, inspect something, organically generating ideas. Clarity, for me, is all about convergence on a solution. This "wander", for me, is all about divergence.

What if, by taking one of these drugs, I screw up my divergent thinking method? All my best ideas come from there. Sure, my best implementation comes from convergence, but speed and clarity aren't factors in invention.

I've wandered around rather a lot, above, but I don't think I'm coming to any more specific point than I've already intimated. I'd not take these, and having just explored some of my thinking in writing this I'm now more certain that I'd avoid them. New chemicals in my head? Hell no, the ones I've got are weird (and good) enough without monkeying around with them!
 

DocBot

Administrator
Staff member
well, the drugs mentioned really work just like amphetamine (dunno about the last one), only at the dosages used they don't do much at all...
 

Taffy

New Member
I hear the American, UK and German Armed Forces are all developing these for their next-generation 'Super-Soldiers'. They are a beasty machine/man hybrid. I'll see if I can find any info.
 
P

Phryxus

Guest
In terms of Taffy's post, I remember something i read not so long ago about scientists trying to manufacture super-warrior drugs. Ecstasy was the first one I know of, which the Germans tried to introduce to frontline troops in the Second World War to keep them awake, not eating and battleready. Unfortunately, as most people know, the drug actually makes the user (generally!) more compassionate to one's fellow man, so that didn't go down too well in trials.

This popularity of off the shelf stimulants could cause a few problems though. As Ronin mentioned, not only does it mean that some people could become mentally dependent upon them, but it could cause numerous problems for the haves and have-nots in the education system. Now, if someone beats you in an exam at the moment, you can most likely put it down to the fact that he/she studied more or is just naturally more able in that area.

What if though, they did better than you did because they could afford stimulants the night before and spent all their time cramming? Unnaturally i might add. Is it cheating? Who knows, but it seems like a very large grey area to me.
 

Taffy

New Member
Then again, they could be a good thing. Especially for the person who took the stimulants.
 

Gizmo-5

In Cryo Sleep
I think mental stimulants will happen just the same way as anti depressants (spelling?) have happened, especially in america where they advertise drugs on TV.

Linkage - words http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030185

video note: this is a spoof of an existing commercial (ive seen several versions) which unfortunately i couldnt find http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlzYSKZJw6g&search=antidepressant commercial

Its another thing to sell, the first few will probably make people crazy, but if they can sell you it then it will happen.

in response to phryxus argument, for anyone whos seen red dwarf season 1, learning drugs arnt all they're cracked up to be :)

11 fails, poor rimmer.
 
Top