Building a new computer

[Wraith]

After having two different computer "experts" look at my computer and fail to identify the causes of the many problems, I feel that I should cut my losses and replace it. I have decided (in my infinite wisdom ) to build this replacement myself.

I've selected the components I think would be good, but as I'm still fairly novice about these things, I figured it would be a good idea to get some impartial, informed opinions on my choices. In particular, I'm looking for information on any known incompatibilities between the components, or known problems with individual items.

The List (All from Novatech - but I may shop around for better prices)
MOBO - Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe
Processor - AMD X2 3800 (I think this is a dual core processor?)
The above come as part of a motherboard bundle with 2 x 512Mb 400MHz DDR RAM
RAM - An additional 1 or 2 sticks of 1GB 400MHz DDR RAM for a total of either 2 or 3 GB.
GFX card - Sapphire 256Mb Radeon X800GTO PCI-e
Sound card - Sound Blaster Audigy
HDD - Western Digital 250GB SATA II.
Optical Drive - Pioneer 8x Dual Layer, 16x DVD+R & DVD-R DVD burner.
Case - Thermaltake Soprano Middle case with window.
I will also use the following components which will be cannibalised from my current machine.
PSU - Chieftec 420W PSU
2nd Optical drive - 16x DVD-ROM drive.
Floppy disc drive

I've gone for the motherboard / processor bundle as the only bit I've heard is particularly difficult is attaching the processor to the MOBO, so I've chickened out on doing that. The rest of it I feel I should be able to handle without too many problems. (Although any tips would be welcome and I may end up asking for help with things like optimising / setting up the BIOS etc).

Like I said, unless there's specific problems with any particular component, the list above is final, so I'd prefer it if the "X component is better" opinion posts are kept to a minimum. I'm not saying don't post your opinions, but be aware that I confuse easily and don't want to end up changing my mind every time someone posts.

Thanks to anyone who helps.

Wraith

 

[Haven]

A few quick thoughts on your system spec:

My main concern - and this is a big concern - is that no details regarding the memory make or CAS/Timings are given on the site. This leads me to believe that it is unbranded and probably not very good (an assumption on my part). If you are serious about getting this system then fire off and email and ask for specs on the memory before you buy it !

Second, the sound card - soundblaster audigy are not bad cards as far as I'm aware but since the system has:
Onboard Sound Realtek ALC850 7.1 channel surround
I fail to see the need for this - I doubt its much better than the realtek. I'd hold fire on getting a soundcard until you've tested how good the onboard one is first.

Finaly, the athlon 64 CPU's are very user friendly when it comes to fitting them. Things have moved on a lot in terms of plug and play with hardware components. Whilst this doesnt mean that you dont have to take very good care when building a system, it is no longer only a place for specialists. If you are feeling brave then have a go.

The case, DVD and all other parts of your system are relatively unimportant. You've chosen a decent enough wattage for the PSU that you are buying (I've no experience of chieftech though) so I think you'll be fine with what you have chosen.

 

[Fi$hy]

Realteck's fine, I have an onboard Realtek mobile soundcard. Functional, but inefficiant (i.e can't cope with acceleration being turned off anything but max) It also lacks any form of customation (volume etc. is controlled by windows)

I'm not familliar with how good Audigy are and whether it's actually worth upgrading. Head in HS's direction for that.

Finally RealTek are fine, but my onboard is nothing special, wheras audigy might be


Also RAM wise,
is it fine to have differant memory sizes? eg 2x 512 + 1x1024 ? Does your MB support that?

 

[LynxGB]

OK Audigy isnt worth buying now - the new standard is X-fi
All new games incl BF2 use X-fi to create ultimate realism sounds. Onboard sound is fine, but if your going for ultimate quality then X-fi is your best bet. Also by using onboard sound you actually decrease your FPS so using an X-FI card is proven to actually be able to increase ur FPS by about 5 - 10 FPS dependant on which version you buy.

Also a ATI card on a Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe? Are you sure. It uses the Nvidia Nforce4 SLI chipset rather than the Crossfire Chipset of ATI & you will never be able to run a crossfire rig in the future of uprgrades.

HDD - Western Digital 250GB SATA II. - I would recommend a Samsung P120 - not only is it faster but its also alot quiter than the WD. its also SATA.

Also check to make sure your PSU has the right connecters etc. You wont want the hassle of buying conection and conversion kits for SATA HDD & PCI-e etc. Also is it 20 or 24 pin mainboard - you need to make sure these are all correct. Although 420w is good for safer & 100% stability I would go for the 500w or 600w Seasonic PSU. Has a far greater effiecency than that of chieftechs "tiwain" brand. As haven says all other aspects are really to your own choice. But do check the CAS latency of your RAM, as more than likely they will try and send you the cheapest crapist ram they can find. If you need any further help or info Just ask me

 

[Gibsonfire]

Good choice on the processors, they are dual core and they run very well. (Apart from if you want to play Star Wars battlefront 2 lol)

 

[BiG D]

OK Audigy isnt worth buying now

I disagree. My audigy card is one of the best damn purchases I've made for my computer, ever. The difference between it and the onboard is night and day. Mind you, your model has surround capabilities, so like Haven said, it's quite possible that it will suffice. But it will cause slowdowns in games, if you're having issues it'd be one of the first things I'd check.

 

[LynxGB]

lol - Thats why I recommended X-fi.
its better than Audigy.

Audigy is now very old hat

 

[TacticalNinja]

Like mentioned, it would be a terrible waste not to use your mobo SLI capability to the full extent

If your goint to SLI its probably best to think about budget and future budget e.g

1. Are you willing to spend a crap load on say like 2x 6800 Ultras and have the bitch of a PC

2. Or are you going to wait up and maybe buy 2x 128meg 6600's?? I no this is a briliant combo because my mate has that
set-up but he now wishes he got 2x 6800

Whatever u do don't rush this... in the past i rushed on PC purchases and rlly paid for it

i think 2 Gig of ram is a brilliant choice because BF2 on full settings uses 1.3 gig of ram (with background programmes running of course)... Anything more than 2 gig in my opinion is overkill and is guna be kikn out some serious heat

That leads me onto my next suggestion/ question... What is the cooling system going to be like on ur new case.. because if u going to have SLI on the go.. 2/3 gig of ram, a big boy PSU and a chipset thats going to be kikin the same sorta heat out that u expect to see on a F-15.... Ur going to need a bloody good air flow

Im running a bitch of a system at the mo and it kiked out about 55.c in the case with standard in and outake fan... once i got my water cooling i managed to get it down to a stableish 35.c, if u havnt got the funds for water cooling i would go with a big boy intake fan and 2 out take fans (one at front and one on side)

Sorry if im busting ur balls hear.. just dont want u to make same mistakes i did

Good luk

Tactical

 

[BiG D]

lol - Thats why I recommended X-fi.
its better than Audigy.

Audigy is now very old hat

Can you back that up?

 

[TacticalNinja]

What me???

 

[BiG D]

Nah, not you. Clarified my post a bit now

 

[TacticalNinja]

ha np mate...

Tactical

 

[DocBot]

nice My only concern is the fact that you're getting a graphics card with pixel shader 2.0, not 3.0, compatibility...

 

[Wraith]

Wow, I wasn't expecting that much of a response. Thanks guys.

Anyway, I'll address what you've all said in order.

Haven
1) Good point about the memory. Hadn't realised this would make a difference but I'll be sure to check it out before I go ahead. Having said that, if you could give me a recommendation about what brand(s) to go for, I'd be grateful. Also, not sure what you mean by CAS/Timings (I told you I'm a novice ) so any info on that would be useful as well.
2) Will probably get the sound card as the reviews I've read slate the realtek onboard sound as being pretty crap.
3)Your probably right about fitting a processor, but, being a novice, I think I'll stick to fitting the bits that I'm reasonably confident with.

Fi$hy
1) See above.
2) With the RAM, I've seen nothing on the motherboard spec to indicate that having different capacities of RAM would be an issue. I do know that there are 4 slots for RAM paired up into 2 x paired channels. As I understand it, this means that there is a performance boost if you have identical RAM chips in paired slots (which is presumably where the pre-installed RAM would be) but it's only necessary on the paired slots. So "pair 1" could be 2x 512Mb and "pair 2" could be 2x 1Gb without any problems. (I hope).

LynxGB
1) You make a good argument for the X-fi, unfortunately there is also another difference you didn't mention. Notably that the cheapest X-fi on Novatech is £93.77, whereas the Audigy I was going for is £18.61. Difference = £75. I'm just not convinced a 5-10 FPS difference justifies the extra cost. Still, it's something (else) to think about.
2) No I'm not sure about an ATI card with this mobo. If you can recommend a more appropriate card, please do. Possibly a GeForce 6800 (see below). Again, I'm a novice at this which is why I asked. I didn't realise just how much I need to learn.
3) Didn't even consider a Samsung as it wasn't an option on Novatech. I'll have a look round to find one and see what I think, but I was hoping to use as few suppliers as possible to cut down on shipping charges/customer service issues etc.
4) Will check the PSU connectors but again I'm not entirely sure what I'll be looking at. Guess I need to do more research. Likewise the question of 20 or 24 pin. I've read a few reviews and none of them mention it so I don't know where I'd find this out.
5) The PSU is one I've already got and I was under the impression that it would be more than adequate. I think that I'll use it to begin with and upgrade if it seems necessary.

Gibsonfire
Forgot about the dual core issues with SWBF2. As it happens, I do play that and it's about the only game that runs on my current comp without a guaranteed crash. Any news on a fix yet or are you still having problems?

Big D
Thanks for clarifying that. Good to know that the Audigy will be a good addition to the machine.

TacticalNinja
1) Not entirely sure what SLI is. Is it where you have 2 GFX cards running in tandem? If so, I'm not sure if I'm going to go down that route at the moment. This is already looking like an expensive prospect, and the benchmarks in the reviews I've read show good performance with just a single card (although I will admit they show vast improvements with a second card). I might go with a single 6800 like this one (not an Ultra though - couldn't find that as an option on Novatech).
2) Probably will go with just 2Gb instead of 3. I think I was just being overly ambitious and greedy.
3) Cooling on the case is listed as 1x 12cm fan on the front, 1x 12cm fan on the back, and 1x 9cm fan on the side (all installed). Also, the mobo has a passive cooling system (big copper pipes drawing the heat away from the mobo), and the reviews suggest water cooling may interfere with airflow to draw heat away from the pipes. Hopefully the listed fans will be enough but we shall see.
4) Don't worry about "busting my balls". I asked for advice and you (and everyone else) have given me some extremely useful stuff to consider.

and finally
Docbot
Good point, but I may have changed my mind about the graphics card thanks to LynxGB and TacticalNinja. I'm now considering a GeForce 6800, which has Shader Model 3 (presumably the same as pixel shader 3?)

Thanks for the help guys, keep it coming.

Wraith

P.S. My brain hurts now!

 

[LynxGB]

nO pROBLEMS wRAITH. <-- Stupid caps lock!

1. The Meaning of SLI (Scalable Link Interface);

SLI is where as you say you can have two graphics cards running in tandom. Creating an ore expering experiance that will match no other.

If you want to keep the same mobo for graphics cards I would recommend 2 x XFX 7800 GTX cards although for two of the at about £400 each its very expensive. I am not sure what your budget is?

But don't Get anything less than a 6600 - Thats the basic
then you got the 6600 GT & 6600 Ultra - Ultra being the DADDY on so on with the 6800, 6800GT & 6800 Ultra. These also all suppurt Shader Model 3.0.

Yeah X-fi is expensive (www.scan.co.uk - £80) but the price isnt just about FPS its about the "realism" effects, but the card your going for is great and will sufice to say the least - but if your going for the "DADDY" of pc's its a good buy.

Your PSU will last on this one I am sure - but it's always good to be looking forward.

 

[LynxGB]

In reply to BIG D


Audigy 2 was an amazing achievment - and was the standard for a while. The new X-fi card brings mroe extreme realism to the game. When you have a X-fi card installed "ULTRA" Sound level comes up in your games and you will notcie the amazing difference. But as I said one post up its really a "ELITE" choice for your pc. Audigy will last for a while but if you got the money now then the purchase of Audigy would be like BUying a CRT stand for ur TFT. Its good it works and used to be the best but it just dosnt peform aswell

(thats a crap exampe but its late and I am tired).

 

[LynxGB]

Also for BIG D


Enhance Your Music, Games and Movies With Xtreme Fidelity! (X-fi)

The ideal versatile sound card to suit all digital entertainment experiences, the Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum sound card includes an internal drive bay with additional, convenient front-facing input/output connectivity for headphone listening, PC gaming and audio creation. Delivering 109dB SNR audio quality, the Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum includes the X-Fi IR remote, for easy access to the Entertainment Center software console, which enables access to music, movies and picture slide shows through a slick, streamlined interface. The Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum also includes all of the standard features, application software, power and performance capabilities of the Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic.

Harness the full power of Sound Blaster X-Fi™ Platinum by selecting one of its 3 usage modes:

Entertainment Mode - For Xtreme Fidelity™ Music and Movies

X-Fi 24-bit Crystalizer™ enhances MP3s and movies to sound better than they do on their original CD or DVD.

Utilizing the Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor your music and movie audio is sent through a two-step quality enhancement process. First the processor converts the audio into 24-bit/96kHz quality using its virtually transparent SRC (Sample Rate Converter) engine. Then it remasters and selectively enhances the audio by analyzing and identifying which parts of the audio stream have been restricted/damaged during the compression stages to 16-bit and then to MP3. The result of these enhancements is music that sounds cleaner, smoother and has more sparkle, and movies that sound more realistic than ever before!

X-Fi CMSS®-3D allows you to upgrade your MP3 music and movies into surround sound with headphones or multichannel speakers.

Enjoy your stereo MP3s and movies in surround sound with X-Fi CMSS-3D technology. Instead of performing a basic upmixing of stereo content, the Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor intelligently remixes the audio into surround sound to match the speaker system you have (including headphones). It also uses advanced techniques to extract specific audio elements, like voice to the center channel and ambience to the surrounding channels, so your music and movies sound more alive than ever before!

SuperRip™ allows you to rip your CDs into Xtreme Fidelity quality.

The X-Fi 24-bit Crystalizer and X-Fi CMSS-3D features allow you to “SuperRip” CDs into Xtreme Fidelity quality so you can now enjoy permanently enhanced music instead of low-quality MP3 files!

Enjoy the latest cinematic technologies for the ultimate PC movie experience!

Experience incredible audio with THX certified quality and unbeatable movie sound with DTS-ES™ and Dolby® Digital EX decoding!

Audio Creation Mode - For Pristine Audio Recording Quality

Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum offers the highest quality, most feature-rich recording available in a consumer solution

Utilizing the Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor, you'll get the most advanced features and effects of any audio processor for music and audio creation delivering pristine audio playback quality.

Advanced Audio Conversion Engine

The Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor features an SRC engine that is 300 times more precise than the previous Sound Blaster solutions and can convert any audio to any resolution at near transparency with 136dB THD+N.

Lowest Latency ASIO Recording

Experience the most precise audio recording capabilities in any class with ASIO recording that has latency as low as one millisecond with zero CPU load.

Advanced Features and Effects for Music and Audio Creation

Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum supports up to eight different 24-bit hardware effects, unprecedented hardware synthesis capabilities, 24-bit SoundFont sampling, and 3DMIDI recording for the first time.


Gaming Mode - For Ultimate Gaming Performance and Maximum Realism

Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum delivers the fastest gaming performance ever!

A completely re-engineered game audio processing engine utilizing Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor allows Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum to deliver the fastest gaming performance ever seen, providing more than a 15% performance boost over motherboard audio solutions while simultaneously delivering full audio effects!

X-Fi CMSS-3D delivers the most realistic surround sound experience with headphones

Know exactly where your enemies are whether you're using headphones or speakers. You won't believe how good X-Fi CMSS-3D positional gaming audio is; in fact, it's so good you'll forget you're wearing headphones!

EAX® ADVANCED HD™ delivers the most realistic gaming audio ever!

Features like 128 voice support, EAX MacroFX, EAX PurePath and Environment FlexiFX set a new standard for EAX and realism available in gaming audio.

X-Fi 24-bit Crystalizer™ automatically upgrades existing games to Xtreme Fidelity
Experience gaming audio that sounds more dynamic and realistic than you could ever imagine!

 

[LynxGB]

Also that bundle Novatech offer is very expensive


I put together a "BUNDLE" of the same components but higher spec for £8 more;

1.AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4200+ S939 512K (2.2) Retail inc Heat Sink Fan & 3 Years Warranty

2.Asus A8N32-SLi Deluxe 939 NF4 Dual x16 SLi DDR400 SATAII Raid 2xGbE Lan 8Ch Audio

3.1Gb (2 x 512 Mb) Corsair TwinX, DDR, PC3200C2PT, Cas 2, Lifetime Warranty

TOTAL PRICE £494.22 (from scan.co.uk)

 

[DeZmond]

I've somehow missed this thread, but I'll throw in my thoughts so you have a big bubbling melting pot of them .

Okay - Firstly, analyse your sound needs. What are you doing with it? Realtek is fine for most tasks, and assuming you're not using a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup you'd be as well using the onboard sound (not a great point in using EAX 4 in a stereo setup). If you're going to be using a lot of, or high quality speakers, and listening to music, and playing cutting edge games, either get an Audigy or X-Fi.

My own preference in that case is the Audigy 2 ZS, which is priced very sensibly for what you get - and that brings me to another point. Never in a million years will every game get coded to use X-RAM, or even every top title. Yes, I admit, some titles will use the features offered by the X-Fi and sound great, but those that take advantage of the Audigy's features will sound pretty damn good too. It's a question of needs - are you an audiophile or a gamer?

Righty, on to the graphics card issue. I've entered this debate before, and my position has not changed. The GeForce 6800 series represents great value for money in terms of performance and features, and if you choose your model carefully the cooling and power requirements are fine too. Yes, some ATi cards trash it's performance in a few titles, but they only offer PS2.0, limiting the useful life of the card.

I would not yet recommend any of ATi's new PS3.0 cards, either. The x1600 has very dodgy performance (trashed by the 6800 and x700), and the x1800 has a cooling setup that could pass as a small city. This is not always a good thing - look at what happened to the 5800!

So, I have to say - go for a 6800 or 7800, depending on your needs.

Okay, moving on - SLI. I'd offer the opinion that it's not yet worth it - check some of the benchmarks on the scattered tech sites on the net to see what I mean. In some games you get a tremendous performance boost, but in others I've seen performance even drop by a few frames per second. Also on dual graphics cards, tread very carefully around ATi Crossfire - it's not yet been thoroughly tested to the point where I'd recommend it as worthwhile.

Righty, your processor - it's a very nice piece of kit. The X2 is indeed a dual core processor, however this will not bring a great performance increase in most games yet, simply because they don't use it. However, I'd expect performance in Windows to go through the roof, and it seemingly does, judging by benchmarks I've seen.

 

[LynxGB]

LOL - X-fi dosnt come with XRAM Its the higher edition X-fi which there is no need for - Audigy is sensibly priced because its old technology!!!

And new games do use X-fi tech on their games to liost a few, quake 4, bf2, fear etc
they don't use X-ram but they do use X-fi for their ULTRA sound modes which Audigy will not allow you access too!