Competition for WOW at last ?

[HotStuff]

In this Months PC gamer, it gave details of three MMORPG what will be released in 2010?

1) "APB": A persistent online city where you play as an enforcer or criminal.

2) "The old Republic": A star wars persistent online world.

3) "Star trek online": The title pretty much says it all.

Blizzard boss Bobby Kotick said "Anyone intending to take on WOW better have some pretty deep pockets".

Wow has always had the crown for MMOPRG's but maybe these other developers have learned from mistakes and learned what makes WOW so successful and popular.

 

[T-Bone]

Yeah, it has gotten to the stage where MMO's are getting more competitive. A part from the fact that all these new games look very good, there is also the fact that the last expansion pack for WoW has been very bad by Blizzard standards. I am particularly interested in The Old Republic, which is being made by Bioware and I've never seen them make a bad game yet.

There are some more on that list as well that you didn't mention that look good like Mortal Online and Stargate Worlds both of which I think I will at least be buying a trial for.

 

[Marqo]

I'm quite interested in The Old Republic as well. However, I think I've heard that Stargate Worlds was cancelled because of lack of funds.

Another MMO that might be very good, but is still a pretty long way off, is The Secret World. (site: www.darkdaysarecoming.com)

 

[thatbloke]

There are also other genre type MMOs coming too, games like Global Agenda is an MMOFPS that look promising, and also EVE online is gaining alot of popularity at the moment.

WoW will be around for a very long time. With a current user base of over 10 million subscribers it would take something uttery brilliant to take enough subscribers away from WoW that the game "died".

And the problem is that alot of these games "aren't WoW" so although WoW players may try them they "aren't WoW" so they go back to WoW :/

 

[Silk]

What was bad about lich king? I quite enjoy Northrend. My only gripe is one zone is till incomplete (crystalsong) which seems inexcusable this far after release.

I hope they'll use some of the countelss millions of dollars they're obtaining to revamp oldworld such that flight is feasible, and give an (optional) graphics update. I don't mean massive performance crunching updates, just nice smooth-outs such as the newer druid animal forms.

 

[elDiablo]

I listened to the PCGamer UK podcast as well, and they raised some interesting points about APB. Apparently, it's only 100 people per server. So if you have to sign up to a server, then there will only ever be about 5 people online at any one time. Alternatively, if you just join whichever server you want, you won't be able to have your trophies that you collect on other servers (apparently they put your name over town if you do well, or something?). So, er, that's a bit worrying. Not got a huge amount of time to explain it, but the podcast talks about it for a good 15 minutes, so it's worth a listen, I'd say.

 

[Ronin Storm]

And the problem is that alot of these games "aren't WoW" so although WoW players may try them they "aren't WoW" so they go back to WoW :/

That said, I think it's a mistake (on the part of development studios) to think that taking on WoW is necessary and thus working hard to appeal to a core WoW audience is only worth while from an understanding of some of the accessibility mechanics that WoW is really good at.

I find something both attractive and perversely repellant about the central system of levelling that is a dominant feature of most MMORPGs. Striving for that next achievement, that next level, does have its appeal, but the idealist in me recognises the divisions (between players and in play groups) that level-oriented content creates.

For me, there's room in the market for a well crafted, good looking and content rich environment that is focused away from the acquisition of levels.

That said, The Old Republic is one that has caught my interest, at least peripherally, through its beautiful trailers and, by that same token, The Secret World. I suspect levelling will exist in both, though...

 

[thatbloke]

That said, I think it's a mistake (on the part of development studios) to think that taking on WoW is necessary and thus working hard to appeal to a core WoW audience is only worth while from an understanding of some of the accessibility mechanics that WoW is really good at.

I find something both attractive and perversely repellant about the central system of levelling that is a dominant feature of most MMORPGs. Striving for that next achievement, that next level, does have its appeal, but the idealist in me recognises the divisions (between players and in play groups) that level-oriented content creates.

For me, there's room in the market for a well crafted, good looking and content rich environment that is focused away from the acquisition of levels.

That said, The Old Republic is one that has caught my interest, at least peripherally, through its beautiful trailers and, by that same token, The Secret World. I suspect levelling will exist in both, though...

Perhaps a separate issue in and of itself, but how would you suggest the progression of your character's perceived level of experience within the game be represented?

Having a "level" means that elements of gameplay can be much more easily balanced around the fact that if a player is level x then they must therefore be able to achieve objectives y and z because they are of an appropriate level. If they are unable to achieve these objectives then the player must know that they are doing something wrong.

I'm sat here and I really can't think of another way in which this could be represented without making it so that your character can access everything within a game from the start - which then defeats the object of progression in the first place.

 

[Ronin Storm]

I'm sat here and I really can't think of another way in which this could be represented without making it so that your character can access everything within a game from the start - which then defeats the object of progression in the first place.

See, it's the paradigm that progression is the point of play that is the problem in my personal perspective (like all those P's?).

An alternative paradigm can be found in exploration, both of world and of play mechanics. The latter is part of what drives non-MMO games; if I use this and that versus the other then what happens? For example, EVE's world exploration isn't very interesting but it does present some interesting and complex play mechanics around its resource gathering, processing, manufacturing and trade. Things that spin off that basic mechanic really drive EVE's core.

Unfortunately, world content is expensive to create and somehow shallow (to date) when procedurally generated.

It's a complex and deep topic. If we're going to discuss this one in detail, let's take it to its own thread.

 

[Marqo]

Apparently, the Secret World will be using kill/based combet, unlocking new skills as you go along with a limited number of slots. In this way a more experienced player has more options and the player skill to use them, while new players still have a chance. (Although the exact implementation has not yet been revealed, like almost everything in the game.)

 

[Windzarko]

Marqo, I sincerely hope you're wrong about the Stargate Worlds thing... I have high hopes for that game, and I'm not anywhere near the colossal 'gate fans that Brad and Baldi are.

On other games...
Old Republic is looking sweeeet (if they avoid the clunky combat KotOR had, I'll be in heaven; the KotOR games were great but the Lightsaber combat felt so... wrong)
Star Trek is increasingly appealing to me (it's gone from looking like generic bandwagon cash-in to looking like it could actually be fun to play)
EVE is getting the biggest expansion ever soon (walking in stations... as in, every station you can dock at will have an interior, with purchasable space for you/your corp to build officers/club/hangout/bar/whatever in... it'll be incredible. Might even make me try EVE RP, who knows).
And there's others that I've seen vids for or heard of... someday I'll actually finally remember the name for the one that Veshi showed to Tbone and had him all excited over.

The MMO market looks like it's only going to get better... and we do kinda have WoW to thank for that. For all it's flaws, problems, set-backs and annoyances, WoW is the dominating force on the MMO market (hell, it's a dominating force in the gaming market; nearly 12 million people now? Half-Life 2 only sold 6.5 million copies last I checked, and I consider that to be one of the finest games ever created), and other MMO developers are being forced to really put the effort into their games to make them draw people away from WoW, and then stay away from WoW (or at least, stay on their MMO; EVE's drawn me in but I still play both ).

Even if WoW only goes downhill from here on out, other MMO devs still have to pull their fingers out to even survive, let alone flourish. I'm hoping that this, in turn, will then force Blizzard to put more effort in to keep people in (for example... if they stop catering to bad players. Catering to hardcore? Fine. Catering to casuals? Great. Catering to the people who stand in the fire? /wrists)

What was bad about lich king? I quite enjoy Northrend. My only gripe is one zone is till incomplete (crystalsong) which seems inexcusable this far after release.

I hope they'll use some of the countelss millions of dollars they're obtaining to revamp oldworld such that flight is feasible, and give an (optional) graphics update. I don't mean massive performance crunching updates, just nice smooth-outs such as the newer druid animal forms.

I think the problem people have with Wrath is the end-game content; yes, Northrend is incredible, and I have much respect for the team that created the continent, made it aesthetically very pleasing, put nigh-perfect music in for most of the zones (some places like Icecrown have "fitting" music, but nothing especially memorable or inspiring), and some incredible quests to do both while levelling and at 80.

I think most people here have by now done the Wrathgate quest chain and the Battle for Undercity (if you have no idea what I'm talking about, grab me in-game and I will help you find this quest chain, you HAVE to do it, it is, quite frankly, one of the best things I've ever done in an online game, and even after having done it on five characters, I'm looking fowards to doing it again on my Druid soon), and most people will likely agree that the levelling experience in Northrend has been phenomenal.

I think most people might also agree that instances as you level are a lot better now; they don't drag on and cause problems with people dropping out partway through a rediculously long instance run and making you unable to finish (remember how long some of the Coilfang or Auchindoun instances could take? Or BRD, if you want to be more old school?). Short, sweet instances with good rewards (if you can dodge the failpower plate), and a truckton of experience.

The gripe people have with Wrath, after all that, is that there feels like there's less reward at the end. Until 3.1, all we had to do was Heroics (sure, most people only have one or two Wrath Heroics they don't like, unlike TBC where most people only had a few they genuinely enjoyed), plus Naxx, Sarthy, Malygos (for some) and Archavon (if you even count him). Add to that the dulled-down professions, less-stable PvP and just a feeling of there being less to do than we were used to from TBC, and it's felt like it's half-hearted, unfinished. Part of this WAS to do with the fact that they rushed Wrath out towards the end (trust me, I was on the beta; if it wasn't painfully obvious from watching from the outside that they were trying to keep people from going to Warhammer Online, it was from the inside. Game didn't feel finished AT ALL when they announced that the beta was about done). I'm fairly sure they intended to release the game with Ulduar as an attune-to-get-in higher instance ready for release, not added in a content patch later, but had to drop that to get it out before Warhammer could suck people away en masse.

Personally, I don't feel like leaving WoW just yet; it IS getting better again (just in time, for me...), we have two major content patches to look fowards to, and the new expansion coming in the not-too-distant future (I reckon it'll be announced at Blizzcon in a month and a bit). But I AM tempted by the other games...



Hurrah, excessively long and chatty post is excessively long!