[Computer] Realistic but good computer, part 2

[Ronin Storm]

A bunch of you kindly helped me with thoughts [thread=4004]a couple of months back[/thread]. Looking at this again...

My machine is growing more sick by the day. I've triaged as far as I think I can. Cleaned her out as best I can, though the CPU heatsink doesn't look like she wants to come off and I'm not keen to force the issue. Pulled a failing stick of RAM. Still, I'm getting regular yet random crashes in anything that pushes my system (BF2142, Red Orchestra, Insurgency... though the last possibly isn't me).

Haven advised waiting three/four months for GDDR3, affordable quad core CPUs and some new ATI kit. The last doesn't worry me, I think, but I notice that GDDR3 appears to be available and there's been a recent price cut on Core2 CPUs (though the quad version still looks much too expensive for me).

I've had a browse around at a few shop offerings and find that my build-it-myself mentality isn't dead yet; one of the big things I'd choose myself is optical drives for best opportunity to read past different protection schemes given appropriate software (EAC is happily ripping protected CDs for me on my carefully chosen Plextor PX-708A).

So, some more questions:

1. Duo or Quad? Quad is clearly going to be more powerful but is it really worth the extra money? Said a different way, would a 2.67GHz Duo be better than a 2.4GHz Quad?
2. For Duo, I notice there's two Intel 755 mobo chipsets one could use: 965P and 975X. What's the difference? Can I use a Quad in either?
3. FSB 1333? I notice the standard is 1066 at the moment, with 1333 round the corner. Worth waiting for? Is that what the Intel 755 P35 chipset is for?
4. GeForce 8800 GTS (assuming I can't afford the Ultra/GTX). Any clear leaders by brand? Is preparing for SLI just mental?
5. Soundcards. In all but one case, I've bought Creative. Any good alternatives?

That's a pretty good start. Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Ronin Storm]

Actually, I realise that I do have a further practical question:

For Core2 Duo/Quad systems, would they require that I installed a 64bit multiprocessor version of WinXP?

 

[thatbloke]

Actually, I realise that I do have a further practical question:

For Core2 Duo/Quad systems, would they require that I installed a 64bit multiprocessor version of WinXP?

You wouldn't need a 64-bit version to my knowledge as the processors are still 32-bit compatible. 64-bit also comes with alot more compatibility headaches at the moment too so I personally would go for 32-bit then when the next big OS from MS comes that will then be 64-bit only (can't find the source but I believe that they have confirmed that their next OS will be 64-bit only).

With regards to graphics cards the clear leader in the market at the moment is the nVidia 8x00 cards. The top-end ones are atm no match for the currently available top end ATi ones.

Waiting for the new stuff is all well and good because it means that the old "new stuff" will get pushed down in price but there will always be that new thing on the horizon due to be released "soon", and tbh you just need to take the plunge and go in because once this new stuff hits it will be damned expensive anyway.

I still don't think Quad is worth it for the money at the moment, so stick with the Duo.

With regards to the chipset, the 975X is the newer one and supports SLi/Crossfire so I would go with that. I would stick the SLi/Crossfire capability in there because it provides an easy upgrade option in future...

I couldn't tell ya on soundcards because I have only ever used on-board mobo sound. Apart from my USB 5.1 headset. Though I've never had any issues with on-board mobo soundcards and most mobo's will now come with at LEAST 5.1 surround if not 7.1 or even 8.1 surround capability built in... If you don't have a need for high-quality sound with shedloads of options and just want some decent sound for your gaming/music needs then I would stick with that. I really can't see what having an upgraded soundcard would provide for the kind of things you would be using the computer for.

That's my $0.02, don't take it as gospel, everyone has their own opinions on waht's good and what isn't (which is what can make computer shopping so hard in the first place!).

Hopefully it helps

 

[waterproofbob]

OK here I go. the quad cores are simply not worth it if the box is going to be used as a gaming rig, the scope for efficient use of these quad core systems in games is still a long way off. I'd go for the E6700 if i were you it overclocks like you wouldn't believe and for everything except maybe straight up benchmarking you'll not get much more from the quad. The quad is still 2 duals at the mo any way so not really worth it. There's always the arguement to wait for the next thing, however remember that the next thing will come and there will be another next thing, So i reckon If you can get a decent rig with possibilities to upgrade then do it. The socket 775 is going to around for a while so I see no really fear in going for the dual now and maybe getting a quad later.

I'd say graphics wise get a BFG 8800GTS OC or maybe the OC2. They are stonking and with the ability to SLI they will happily roast most things out there. Unforetunately ATI have hit and missed in my opinion and have come up with a card that is mediocre at best, saying that for the money it competes well, however unless you plan on using the fact that tyou can get HD from it I'd say defo go for the 8 series nVidia.

Sound card wise go for the creative gamer 7.1 card, it does everything you can need and isn't too pricey, ASUS are releasing a PCI-E sound card at some stage that looks to be very sexual indeed but for sake of a reliable name you can not go wrong with Creative.

As far as mobo's go I'd go for a ASUS or eVGA nForce 680i chipset, they are the dogs dangly bits and the boards in that range are very nice and the documentation for any tweaking for these setups is vast.

As far as DDR3 RAM goes its still very much in its infancy and i can't see it really kicking off for about 9 months to a year, again you could wait but its really not worth it imo. The possible speeds we will be getting from the DDR3 are looking exciting but right now its still DDR2 all the way.

The P35 is going to enable the use of the 1333 FSB, but some 680i boards also support 1333FSB and as i mentioned already I'd personally go for a 680i.


I think thats everything and i hope thats vaguelly useful, just my general mulling of current situation, next month I may be in a different mindset only time will tell.

 

[elDiablo]

Unfortunately, I agree with both bob and bloke (for the most part) This makes me sad, as I hate the both of them!

One thing on bob's front though:

As far as mobo's go I'd go for a ASUS or eVGA nForce 680i chipset, they are the dogs dangly bits and the boards in that range are very nice and the documentation for any tweaking for these setups is vast.

I love ASUS personally, but their own documentation is pretty poor in places. They seem to just think giving the "Quick Start" manual in the box you buy is perfectly fine, and if you need anything else, you have to go online and use their (not so brilliant) support site to find the correct manual you need. The site isn't brilliant as on more than one occasion I've downloaded what is said the contain the English version, only to get multiple different non-English versions in one manual!

That being said, if you are happy to look at the mobo with all the lovely coloured connectors (that also have their short-hand name printed next to them, usually) that join up to the coloured wires they give you (which I'm sure most people can do!), then ASUS is fine. I love them, very nice boards, very clever stuff, and never had a problem. Its just little documentation annoyances that get to me

 

[thatbloke]

Unfortunately, I agree with both bob and bloke (for the most part) This makes me sad, as I hate the both of them!

Thanks. Bitch.

 

[Haven]

So, some more questions:

1. Duo or Quad? Quad is clearly going to be more powerful but is it really worth the extra money? Said a different way, would a 2.67GHz Duo be better than a 2.4GHz Quad?
2. For Duo, I notice there's two Intel 755 mobo chipsets one could use: 965P and 975X. What's the difference? Can I use a Quad in either?
3. FSB 1333? I notice the standard is 1066 at the moment, with 1333 round the corner. Worth waiting for? Is that what the Intel 755 P35 chipset is for?
4. GeForce 8800 GTS (assuming I can't afford the Ultra/GTX). Any clear leaders by brand? Is preparing for SLI just mental?
5. Soundcards. In all but one case, I've bought Creative. Any good alternatives?

Duo vs Quad. For games released over the last 2 years MHz is king, a single core very high MHz CPU will beat all comers. If these are your staple then the Duo will be a better fit.

*Gazes into his crystal ball*

For Games released over the coming 24 months Cores will gradually become more important than raw MHz. Half Life 2 is leading the pack in this respect as they are coding all future games to seperate processes (Audio/AI/Physics/etc) to use individual cores where possible. I have not read enough around other games engines but I would imagine there will some pressure from chip manufacturers for games to start "requiring" multiple cores pretty soon (or the chip manufacturers are going to lose a lot of money ).

1333 vs 1066 Quick answer is there's not enough difference to care right now. Go for the cheapest

GeForce 8800 GTS: IMNSHO once you've paid the stock price for the NVIDIA chippery (standard across cards) + the profit margin for the part (which is pretty much the same between all manufacturers) and finally the memory speed you can afford, the rest of the money goes on the cooler. Buy the card with the best cooler you can find. The heaviest copper heatpipe solution you can find will be the best brand to buy. Alternatively buy your own copper gfx cooler and the cheapest card you can and upgrade it yourself. Beyond that choose how much you want to pay for whatever memory chips it includes (most cards use the reference memory which will be standard between manufacturers).

Soundcards: Sound is the often neglected bastard child of the gaming experience. Having used some godawful on board audio and some damn sexy audiophile cards I can't stress enough how much of a pleasure or a horror sound can make of the gaming experience. Personally I use an M-Audio Revolution 7.1 (audiophile) card. Yes it lowers my fps slightly compared to creative's cards but its sound quailty is awesome. Since my card is now old and there are better models on the market, I would reccomend you check out the following two cards:

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-meridian.php

The former is not yet out but is what many gaming audiophiles are holding their collective breath for right now. The latter is awesome from what I have read. Neither supports linux (yet), although the meridian definately will at some point whereas the prelude probably never will (Creative are not likely to write drivers for linux ever).

 

[Haven]

For Core2 Duo/Quad systems, would they require that I installed a 64bit multiprocessor version of WinXP?

No ...

Unless you happen to have over 4GB of RAM don't bother with 64bit. Intel also have a reduced 64 bit instruction set. This means more errors and less compatibility (i.e. not truly natively 64bit). If you really care about 64 bit support then don't go with Intel.

 

[Ronin Storm]

Thank you everyone for the extremely helpful answers. Now to find enough money to upgrade, 'cause I crashed out of Insurgency about 5 times in an hour, last night but everyone else was fine (aside from the one server crash).

 

[Ronin Storm]

I've spent hours and hours researching and costing a replacement PC. Here's where I've got to:

(all prices include VAT)

• CPU: Intel Core2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz
  • £132.76, Scan, Today Only
• Motherboard: Asus P5N32-E SLI
  • £132.77, Tekheads
• PSU: 600W Zalman ZM600-HP
  • £72.85, Scan, Today Only
• Graphics: 320MB BFG 8800GTS OC2
  • £193.88, Scan, Today Only
• Sound: Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
  • £56.39, Scan
• Memory: 2GB (2x1GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2 PC2-6400
  • £82.24, Scan, Today Only
• Case: Antec P182 Super Midi Tower
  • £80.95, Scan
• Hard Drive: 500GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATAII
  • £64.03, Scan
• DVD: Samsung SH-S203/BEBN
  • £18.51, Scan, Today Only
• Floppy: Sony Black Floppy Drive OEM
  • £4.14, Tekheads

Total price, including VAT and delivery, £869.46.

I've been aiming for as quiet as I can get away with without creating huge cost or performance problems. I've also been aiming for upgrade potential (e.g. FSB1333, 8GB RAM, nVidia SLI, etc).

I've been aiming for around £800 in parts, plus delivery, with a view to putting another £50 or so at games or peripherals (replacement keyboard, headset... whatever). Got pretty darned close with Scan's fortuitous Today Only offers (I selected my parts before I checked Today Only!)

Have I missed anything? Any obvious bloopers in the spec above? Thoughts appreciated.

 

[thatbloke]

I've spent hours and hours researching and costing a replacement PC. Here's where I've got to:

(all prices include VAT)

• CPU: Intel Core2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz
  • £132.76, Scan, Today Only
• Motherboard: Asus P5N32-E SLI
  • £132.77, Tekheads
• PSU: 600W Zalman ZM600-HP
  • £72.85, Scan, Today Only
• Graphics: 320MB BFG 8800GTS OC2
  • £193.88, Scan, Today Only
• Sound: Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
  • £56.39, Scan
• Memory: 2GB (2x1GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2 PC2-6400
  • £82.24, Scan, Today Only
• Case: Antec P182 Super Midi Tower
  • £80.95, Scan
• Hard Drive: 500GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATAII
  • £64.03, Scan
• DVD: Samsung SH-S203/BEBN
  • £18.51, Scan, Today Only
• Floppy: Sony Black Floppy Drive OEM
  • £4.14, Tekheads

Total price, including VAT and delivery, £850.95.

I've been aiming for as quiet as I can get away with without creating huge cost or performance problems. I've also been aiming for upgrade potential (e.g. FSB1333, 8GB RAM, nVidia SLI, etc).

I've been aiming for around £800 in parts, plus delivery, with a view to putting another £50 or so at games or peripherals (replacement keyboard, headset... whatever). Got pretty darned close with Scan's fortuitous Today Only offers (I selected my parts before I checked Today Only!)

Have I missed anything? Any obvious bloopers in the spec above? Thoughts appreciated.

Looks good to me

Though I would try for a 640MB Grafix card rather than a 320MB one. But that's because it's a bigger number and therefore has a bigger e-penis value.

 

[Traxata]

Uhm, i'd suggest a CPU fan, although the stock ones are fine for plugging everything in and going, i think that the ones with lots of copper and fans are really quite worth it, even if they're only an extra £15-25 it also gives you the ability to overclock at a later date if your spec isn't quite up for a game in the future

 

[Ronin Storm]

Yeah, thanks for that. To add to my spec above:

• CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS9500-AT
  • £29.95, Scan

Bringing my total price to £899.61.

Otherwise that seems to be looking good. I hope.

 

[Ronin Storm]

Well, that's that. Ordered. Using money that was previously earmarked for moving house ('cause that's now not happening 'til next year). Hopefully it'll all be marvellous and I can stop bitching about how my PC won't play new games / how it crashes doing simple stuff like Excel.

Thank you everyone for your help!

 

[Traxata]

no problemo ^_^