Computer troubles - Advice needed.

thatbloke

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
Ok, so as some of you who were on WoW tonight will have noticed, my gaming session tonight was a little short-lived. The reason? my CPU is (for some ungodly reason) overheating. After it shut itself down I instantly went to the BIOS and found that my CPU temp was up at around 67-68 degrees C, with the shutdown set as low as I can get it (70 degrees). obviously this is the reason it is shutting down... but i's like some advice on WHY it may be overheating. The processor is an AMD Athlon 3400 XP 64 bit precessor, clocked at 2.2GHz. I have had this now for over a year, and not had any problems with it. In fact since then, I have beefed up the power supply and added two more case fans! And yet suddenly now within about 10 mins of the computer being on it is having to shut itself down due to this overheating problem.

My specs:
  • AMD Athlon 3400 64 bit processor, clocked at 2.2GHz. Fitted with stock heatsink and fan (both working correctly as far as i can tell)
  • Brand new 550W power supply, fitted about 3 months ago when problem first started to see if it would help with problem. Seemed to help for a while at least...
  • 1GB RAM
  • 1 Sony DVD Writer
  • 1 Samsung CD-RW/DVD combo drive
  • 1x120GB HD
  • 1x40GB HD (nb: installed and operating but not used).
  • FOUR (that's 4) 8cm Case fans... two on the back, one on top and one on the side. All operating correctly (apart from a couple of the LEDS... but that's cosmetic)
  • Running Windows XP Pro.
If you guys require any more of my specs to do your thing then let me know.

Do you think that fitting a new, bigger and better heatsink/fan combo would stop this? if so is there one you would recommend? Can't remember the exact type of Mobo... but i know it's not a socket 939... it's the 700 and something socket style processor slot...
 
DeZmond

DeZmond

Junior Administrator
Sounds like a cooling issue indeed - perhaps you would benefit from undervolting your processor. Read this article, and ignore the fact it's done on a laptop - the procedure is the exact same for any Athlon 64 processor regardless of socket. My Turion, for example, uses around 20W less of power than normal (which is normally rated at 35W max TDP, yet at max my ENTIRE laptop uses only 21W) and also runs more than 10oC less than it otherwise would. Highly recommended.

You can do more with undervolting, too. For example, you can set voltage levels so that if you're not doing a lot with your system at one point, you can half the operating frequency to use less power and create less heat. Or you can add in a halfway level that balances the two. Or whatever - it gives you the control you need over your system.

Oh, and do it sensibly and it's perfectly safe - unlike overclocking, you're not pushing your components - if you encounter any problems, just restart your PC and your settings will be reset and will work as normal.
 
Pestcontrol

Pestcontrol

In Cryo Sleep
Dezmond's excellent recommendations aside, it simply shouldn't get that hot. Sounds like you have a serious fan or airflow issue. Does the bios show fan rpm in it's stats page?
 
thatbloke

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
BIOS is showing the CPU fan's RPM at 2410rpm. I have looked at underclocking it and it is currently on the lowest setting anyway... and that undervolting suggestion is probably a good one, but the program he uses in that article has has a big update since then and everything now has a different name and is in a different place... so I don't wanna risk it.
 
T

[THN]Buffalo_Hunter

In Cryo Sleep
First thing I'd do is remove the heatsink, clean all the thermal paste off both the CPU and the heatsink (use isopropyl alcohol). Put some new Arctic Silver 5 on it and refit the heatsink and see what happens.

For comparison, my "old" Athlon64 3500 with an Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 never got above 45°C.
 
Birdy

Birdy

In Cryo Sleep
to be honest i dont know if he is confident enough to do that, but he might have a go. I think he is buying a new one!!

Anyway I thought since we were problem solving I put up my problem.

Since i moved house/flat my computer has a tendancy to not show any output on my monitor when i start it up!

so i turn it on and turn on my monitor and nothing happens even though it sounds like it is working inside!

It normaly takes 5 or 6 restarts a a bit of wiggling to make it work but its not good watever it is!

Any ideas??
 
Tetsuo_Shima

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
Perhaps a faulty connection here or there, have you tried making sure the power cable and the plug are both securely pushed in, as well as the input cables? Theres also the possibility of a busted tube as well, but if it does work eventually then that probably isnt the problem (im assuming you have a CRT since you can 'hear it working inside')
 
Pestcontrol

Pestcontrol

In Cryo Sleep
Sounds like a VGA cable issue. Does it ever stop working when you wiggle it while it's working?

Thatbloke: reapplying thermal paste is nice but that alone does not account for it running ~25 degrees too hot. The default pad under AMD coolers never loses contact unless you remove the heatsink and with the advent of heatspreaders to lower thermal density on the heatsink the importance of thermal paste is not as great as it used to be. It seems to me few are aware of that.

At least your fan is spinning.. you'll have to open your case and check for dust clogging up the fins of your heatsink and air inlet/outlets in the case itself and the psu. DO NOT vacuum it, close your eyes and blow it out (and take a shower), or get a can of air with one of those long nozzles that you can use to blast the dust out of all the tricky places.
I got a feeling all your nice case fans may have helped turning it into a dust paradise.
 
Birdy

Birdy

In Cryo Sleep
no it dosent stop working once it is going!! its just on start up!

i can shake my computer up and it still works wen its on!

im thinking its somthing with the graphical output processes from the computer ( not sure where!)
 
SgtFury

SgtFury

Junior Administrator
Staff member
What Pest says seems right to me. I used to have a monitor where you had to have a little kink in the VGA wire since it must have got a snap somewhere along it and the two pieces needed to touch again :D. ( Managed to sell it on too *whistles*)
 
Birdy

Birdy

In Cryo Sleep
its not that its only on the first few boots. Somtimes if i reboot it 2 times it works. I dont do anything else or touch the leads.
 
DeZmond

DeZmond

Junior Administrator
I'm currently using the program in question... sure the menus look slightly different but no permanent changes take place unless you want them to (even then you need to have the program installed and running so it's not even that permanent). The program by it's very nature needs constant updating to cope with the new processor releases and also new motherboards, sockets and RAM advances since it charts them all.
http://cpu.rightmark.org/download/rmclock_21_bin_fix.exe - The direct and official link to Rightmark CPU Clock / Power Utility.

To give an example of what undervolting can acheive, look at my processor. When running at full pelt, 1.6Ghz, it uses up to 35W at 1.4V and averages at about ~55-60oC. With undervolting, I took the voltage for that clock frequency down to 1.125V. The result? Less power usage, and it runs about 45-50oC. And no difference in performance whatsoever.

As for the cpu running hot, is there any way that the temperature readings could simply not be accurate? I've had that problem in a past system a few years back - everything was about ~10oC lower than the readings would have indicated.
 
Pestcontrol

Pestcontrol

In Cryo Sleep
Readings from a motherboard sensor under the socket and the on-die one integrated into the CPU typically differ by ~10°C, the motherboard sensor's reading will be closer to the temperature you feel when touching the heatsink, unless the thermal interface is poor due to dried out paste or a rotten pad.

So yeah, thatbloke, you should open it up and give it the good old "touch it and see if it's hot" style temperature measurement. If it's hot, it's an airflow issue, if it isn't or only lukewarm, it's either a malfunctioning sensor or a poor thermal interface.

Thatbird: if it's not in the cable, all bets are off. It could be a random hardware issue. Is your card dual headed and if so, have you tried using the other connector?
 
thatbloke

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
Yes I did the touch it to see if it was hot test. and yes it was bloody hot.

I currently have the side of the case off and it's running about 55 degrees (though i'm not playing games or anything...) got a feeling it might be in part due to my system becoming a hotbox and not having enough ventilation around it...
 
Wraith

Wraith

Active Member
Pestcontrol said:
A hot box with 4 case fans?
Something's horribly wrong.
Click to expand...

This may seem like a stupid question (and for all I know is :p ), but is it possible that you've got one or more of your new fans installed the wrong way round and blowing the hot air back into the case? Would that make any difference?

Wraith
 
thatbloke

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
Pestcontrol said:
A hot box with 4 case fans?
Something's horribly wrong.
Click to expand...

Well DUH. It was fine with just 2 case fans and the stock heatsink/fan for at least a year... then I replaced the PSU and it seems to be ever since I replaced the PSU (the old one died - it was only 250W and about 5 years old!) that the computer is shutting itself down...
 
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