[EVE] Eve - I remain unconvinced ... show me the light.

Haven

Administrator
Staff member
Ok so I used the 14 day trial on Eve which expired a couple of weeks ago.

I admit I only played twice for a couple of hours each and the game really did not grip me.

The fundamental issue I had with the game was with the interface, nothing was intuitive for me. Finding which button to press to bring up a panel which I then had to drag somewhere more useful took too long and frustrated me. I found the fonts hard to read and the squareness of the interface visually unappealing.

Ship navigation and targeting I found a PITA, and frankly for the amount of useful visual feedback received they could have done away with the graphics entirely and made it a text only game ...

Finally, missions (albeit I was only doing the training missions) were dull and uninteresting, it was also hard to understand what missions I was on and where I was going etc.

Given that you are all keen Eve players I'm wondering what I missed. Is it simply that other elements of the game make up for the unfriendly interface or did I miss the point somewhere along the line ?

This isn't a persuade me to play kind of thread as my initial impressions were poor enough to put me off coming back. But given how unimpressed I was with my trial period I really feel I've missed something that the rest of you obviously get out of it :)
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
To an extent, EVE may as well put up a sign saying "newbies not welcome" and leave it at that. Their introduction to the game is really unhelpful and the nature of the game mechanics means that a solo player can be left without direction or purpose because the game lacks clear options for the new player. The interface is complicated and generally unfriendly (though much better than it was, if I remember correctly), with many useful features obscured behind layers of complicated menus or key-mouse combinations that aren't included in any tutorial. In that sense, I'm not surprised that you were put off.

Unfortunately, the game in EVE isn't something you're going to find within 3-4 hours play without coming into the game with an understanding of where you're aiming for. I played once before right back at the beginning so I knew a little of what I was getting myself in for. I feel that for one to find the fun in EVE you have to understand both what kind of game you're going to be playing and be prepared to take the game by the balls and make your own direction, find your own fiction, figure out your own reasons to play.

EVE is Elite on steroids. You need to get comfortable with comparing stats on equipment, considering profit margins, doing the maths on different ship loadouts, planning skill progression towards particular game roles, and you need to start that on day one. In Elite, it was all about getting bigger and better equipment and either running cargo for a profit or hunting pirates for a profit, with the promise of being called "Elite" if you were ever good enough (I made it to Deadly before I gave up... ;) ). EVE adds a few elements to the game beyond that, throws in another 30,000 players and removes the cool but rather meaningless ratings.

The guts and real pull of EVE are probably in six main parts:

  1. The Ships - liking the array of different ships and wanting to play with them is a huge part of EVE; it's pretty similar to wanting different sets of armour in WoW, I imagine, except that different ships fulfil different combat roles so even a cheap, early-game Frigate has uses in the more advanced game
  2. The Market - people refer to the EVE market as EVEbay and it plays out that way; the market is almost entirely player driven as even the useless scrap ultimately breaks down into metals that can be recycled into making stuff and the knowledge that everything is interlinked in that way makes trade, haulage, salvage and more all meaningful activities within the scope of the game
  3. PVP en masse - this game allows fleets of dozens if not hundreds of ships to duke it out in real time where the large ships don't necessarily dominate the small ones, where consideration of tactics, fleet balance, the economy of war and so on are all pertinent factors
  4. Player Owned Stations - if you can take it you can claim it for your own, and this is embodied in the ability to put up permanent structures in the game that you then need to give consideration on how to supply and defend in order to retain your control; it's player ownership of things and places in the game in a way that's not really done elsewhere
  5. Supply Chain - the game's supply chain has been thoroughly thought out so that mining leads to refining lead to manufacturing leads to use in combat leads to wrecks leads to salvage leads to more manufacturing; it's a beautiful system under the hood and if you like seeing these sort of systems ticking this can be a big winner
  6. Real time training - so I can't play as much as the rest of them but I can still keep my skills moving such that I can continue to broaden my available options in EVE; it works both ways in that I can't realistically ever catch up with someone who has been playing a year more than me, on skill points, but I can still be competitive by picking my skills and role carefully and hitting them where they're weakest with me and a fleet of my mates; gone the problem of unassailable opponents purely because they're twinked to the eyeballs

Notice I don't even mention missions in there, which are limited in their scope and, I feel, are really only interesting when they're hard enough that you can't do them by yourself and you need to get social and get other people involved. They are, unfortunately, rather necessary given the standing they give you (akin to reputation in WoW) but the number of combat missions seems pretty small and their nature fairly predictable such that I'm sure you could play that bit of EVE text-only. But, I feel, one doesn't play EVE purely for the missions but for what the missions enable, rather like one doesn't repeat the same dungeon in WoW over and over just because you want to see the architecture or those mobs again but because you're chasing after the remaining piece in your armour set.

Of those five things, what could you be doing of them on day one? Probably almost none without substantial prior experience. That is where EVE sucks. However, if you stick with the game you start to see the possibilities that it holds, the places where it can do things no other game in the MMO market yet offers at this scale. The tools are often peculiar and difficult to use but they tend to offer a breadth of scope and freedom that allows for complex structures to be built (e.g. how Corporations are structured) and the nature of the wider game is that, with some time and effort, you can legitimately take part in the bigger game content such as PVP wars; note, not "end game" content because there's no end game aside from what you choose.

If you don't choose a direction for yourself in EVE then you're probably screwed. The game won't help you. Once you've chosen a direction that you feel is worthwhile working towards, though, the game then offers you the freedom to go at that how you like and keeps all the other possibilities perpetually open to you.
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
Conversely I've found some of the things you guys find interesting a bore. Combat is horrendously boring. You're coming from WoW where battles are usually quick, colourful and have variety wherein you could be fighting an Ice monster, Fire monster, Earth monster and soforth and to kill those types you just use different spells whereas in EVE if you're fighting say someone with strong EM resistance which you're not kitted out for you're going to have to go back to the station and refit things in order to be effective.

Battles in EVE take a very long time. Let's do a comparison. Say you go into an area in WoW where there are 5 guys the same level as you. You pull them one by one and have an engaging battle where you really need to be hands on or you're dead. This takes about maybe 2 minutes to clear the 5 guys and then you spend about 30 seconds skinning the remains and then you can move onto the next battle. Now let's take EVE. If you warp into an area with 5 ships that are the same as your ship (Battlecruiser, Cruiser or what have you) you'll find the combat takes considerably longer. Not a massive amount but still quite a bit. You lock your targets, orbit at the correct speed and press F1-F8 and wait until they're dead. While their shields and things are going down you just sit there doing nothing. Boring! Then once your dead you have to fly about and salvage remains which takes an awful long time, especially at the speed bigger ships fly.

It's a game that takes a very long time to get anything done. A quest in WoW that would take you 5 minutes could take you 25 in EVE. The endgame things in EVE sounds brilliant. En Masse PVP? Conflicts over player controlled space stations? Yes please! But the things you have to do? Well to get to that stage is years of work, running missions and salvaging. Take for example how HNW have scheduled a mining operation for tonight to fund the corporation. That's effectively hours of mining. One person sits and locks on to an asteroid and mines, while someone else has the horrible job of ferrying it back to a station to be sold. No thanks.

EVE is a game of statistics; look at these numbers. This is the damage this missile does. Look at these launcher details. This is the multiplier for the missile damage. Look at your skills. These numbers also affect the damage. Work all this out. This is your damage from optimal range at optimum speed but it does not factor non optimal range or speed or the size, type or skill of the enemy you're fighting.

WoW is not a game of statistics. WoW is here is you DPS now go and kill some stuff.

I understand that description of EVE probably sounds brilliant to some of you and likewise for WoW, but each to his own. I appreciate that you guys enjoy this game. But the game really has to grab you. Look at the descriptions above. Which one suits you best?
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
En Masse PVP? Conflicts over player controlled space stations? Yes please! But the things you have to do? Well to get to that stage is years of work, running missions and salvaging.

Just picking up on one thing in there to clear up an inaccuracy: that's months not years of effort. To take and hold multiple systems against all comers, yep, years, but at a smaller scale we (HNW) already have a plan in place to achieve that within visible future.

Aside, they're very different games. To be fair, I started the comparison but largely because I know that's a game that Haven is very familiar with. But EVE compares better to a multiplayer Elite or X2 than it does to WoW.
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
Just picking up on one thing in there to clear up an inaccuracy: that's months not years of effort. To take and hold multiple systems against all comers, yep, years, but at a smaller scale we (HNW) already have a plan in place to achieve that within visible future.

Ahh, not too bad then.

=Ronin Storm;52736]Aside, they're very different games. To be fair, I started the comparison but largely because I know that's a game that Haven is very familiar with. But EVE compares better to a multiplayer Elite or X2 than it does to WoW.

Oh, when you said Elite I thought you meant, ya know... 31337... :eek:
 

Haven

Administrator
Staff member
Awww aren't the young'uns cute *pats nanums on the head* :P

Thanks for the responses. I see where you're coming from but must say I'm amazed that people persevered to find the "good stuff" in the game given the opening few hours :)
 

Traxata

Junior Administrator
Myself, Ronin, and my mate, have previously tried the game back before it got pretty, We found it dull and boring then.

We've tried it again this time, and its grabbed us because we're not doing it alone. This game is more about Socializing than playing, thus why the current aims for EVE are to get Ambulation finished and distributed to people. Imagine, fighting in your ship, beating someone, only, to later go into a station, look at the battle damage you've sustained, start repairs, then, whilst its going on, head off to the bar, owned by a player, buy some drinks and have a chat about the fight you've just had with the player or even some other people!

Sure, that is a way off yet, but Haven, We've all picked up on this game because we started it together. We all grouped up and started off on our adventure, more of us joined the game and we moved into our own corporation. Now there are currently almost always one other player on-line for you to talk to, as well as the various friends we've made. Ronin and I have pretty much been fleeted together for 90% of the missions we're doing, Its fun that way, I personally don't like doing the missions on my own, without someone else there to do them with you it gets dull and boring... Probably what you've found. Compare that to when you have to go and do some silly quest on WoW that you really can't be bothered to do on your own, but will happily do it with someone else because you're socializing, having a laugh etc at the same time, that's what makes it more enjoyable in my opinion.

Nanor mentioned the fact we have a Mining operation this evening, Sure we're going to be doing some menial tasks, but we're going to be doing it together in the same place, having a laugh and a chat at the same time that's what makes this bearable :)
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
This game is more about Socializing than playing ...

I like games that are designed to be played. So you're saying that if EVE didn't have the socializing aspect you wouldn't play? That does explain the lack of people playing past the early stages due to lack of socializing. But you're making it sound like EVE is like hopping on IRC and watching the stock market.

Nanor mentioned the fact we have a Mining operation this evening, Sure we're going to be doing some menial tasks, but we're going to be doing it together in the same place, having a laugh and a chat at the same time that's what makes this bearable :)

Any game that has made any part of it menial has failed epically. Games are about enjoyment. Any game where you're going to have to do something menial repeatedly (this won't be your last mining soiree I assume) in order to progress is not worth playing never mind paying per month in my opinion.
 

Ki!ler-Mk1

Active Member
Of course, the time it takes to make it free you might as well go to work for an extra hour or 2 instead of the several ingame to make that possible, but then you have to have a job :(
 
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