From Dust

Nanor

Well-Known Member
Ubisoft are developing a new nature simulator. Sounds quite shite, doesn't it? Well you're wrong.

The game is scheduled for a 2011 release and I can not wait. It looks absolutely fantastic and I can't wait to pour lava over small tribal towns. :)
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Very pretty.

All I want to do though is test it for it's geological, meteorological, pedological, and geographical accuracy though.

I suspect that it will make me VERY ANGRY, since these systems are virtually imposible to model accurately with supercomputers currently. It's one of the things the department I work in does at the moment.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
All I want to do though is test it for it's geological, meteorological, pedological, and geographical accuracy though.

There's pretty much no way they're going to be accurate to your standards. Better to not even attempt to assess it in that way. It's a game, after all, not a simulator.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
ooh, powerless humans you say?

i can see this being as fun as B&W :D

So....not fun at all then...

There's pretty much no way they're going to be accurate to your standards. Better to not even attempt to assess it in that way. It's a game, after all, not a simulator.

Yeah, I know. Its so pretty, but doesn't seem to have any substance behind it.

Though the water physics looks ok, I bet it doesn't have any basic features like long shore drift or erosion and redeposition of sediment, or soil growth.

I'll bet it doesn't have any attempts to geological accuracy with comments on the video like: 'this is rock' - What kind of rock goddamnit? You DON'T KNOW. They won't have made any attempts to deal with anything remotely interesting (edit: TO ME, i think is the key point here). I could probably deal with a minimum of realistic, or semi realistic water-rock interaction with lava and erosion, and with moderately accurate sediment transport, lets see if they can live up to the billing.

I guess I don't really like god games very much, as I tend to find them too unrealistic, and then they have very little appeal.

So close, and yet so far. Stop billing your game as realistic goddamnit!

The phrase 'creating of a realistic nature simulation' is the headline of the video. Stop lying, you @&%$s.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Stop billing your game as realistic goddamnit!

Realism is a graded scale. Where I see "realistic" I see "has tendencies towards reality at times".

The trailer does just use words such as rock and soil without distinguishing. Pretty good clue that they've reduced it to its basics.

That said, it looks very cool and could be a neat toy. As Psi says, reminds me of Black and White. I sincerely hope that they give me more freedom than that, though, as I was really cheesed off when they took my animal away.
 
G

Gombol

Guest
So....not fun at all then...

So true.

Yeah, I know. Its so pretty, but doesn't seem to have any substance behind it.

Though the water physics looks ok, I bet it doesn't have any basic features like long shore drift or erosion and redeposition of sediment, or soil growth.

I'll bet it doesn't have any attempts to geological accuracy with comments on the video like: 'this is rock' - What kind of rock goddamnit? You DON'T KNOW. They won't have made any attempts to deal with anything remotely interesting (edit: TO ME, i think is the key point here). I could probably deal with a minimum of realistic, or semi realistic water-rock interaction with lava and erosion, and with moderately accurate sediment transport, lets see if they can live up to the billing.

I guess I don't really like god games very much, as I tend to find them too unrealistic, and then they have very little appeal.

So close, and yet so far. Stop billing your game as realistic goddamnit!

The phrase 'creating of a realistic nature simulation' is the headline of the video. Stop lying, you @&%$s.

As much as I respect you Panda, stop having such highstandards. ^.^ It's a game, it won't be 100000000000% perfect for a long time yet. ;)
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Tbh, this is like a geologist's wet dream, but is bound to be disappointing from a geologist's point of view.

Added in bold. From a neat-toy point of view I can imagine it having anything up to around six or eight hours worth of amusement. It'll need some game mechanics to back it up after that, for me.

That's where Black and White fell down, I feel; they had a neat toy that had twelve to fifteen hours of amusement and then interrupted that play with a brutal take-your-toys-away mechanic only around six hours in.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry, i thought that implication was obvious from the start of the sentence...

Not for me. Besides, the clarity I was trying to add was that it will probably be a disappointment to a someone (anyone, I guess) when viewing it from a geology standpoint, but it could still be a neat and enjoyable really-not-geology toy if one puts that aside.

I guess that I'm advocating letting games focus on play more than simulation, except where the simulation creates fun play. Dwarf Fortress is a decent example of a simulator that greats play out of the simulation, but despite the greater depth to the simulation I suspect that would also not stand up to scientific analysis (and they do go down to a fair level of detail for the geology, though they also acknowledge areas where they simplified or are downright inaccurate).
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Not for me. Besides, the clarity I was trying to add was that it will probably be a disappointment to a someone (anyone, I guess) when viewing it from a geology standpoint, but it could still be a neat and enjoyable really-not-geology toy if one puts that aside.

I guess it says a lot about my issues that i can't put it aside easily...

Jesus Christ Panda, you've just described the most boring game ever. :p

Not to me :( But quite possibly...
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
DF is awesome because of the ability to smear your fortress in horse blood and kick goblins down bottomless pits, not for how detailed it's geology is. :p
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
DF is awesome because of the ability to smear your fortress in horse blood and kick goblins down bottomless pits, not for how detailed it's geology is. :p

And you just don't know what you're missing! How about the agonising over which site to embark to and whether it's going to have the right sort of stone to provide flux for your forges? Or wondering whether you're going to have any magma safe stone? Or whether it's got the correct geology for iron ore or gold?

Still, getting way off topic here...
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
The correct environment for Iron Ore is archaean to protorozoic age (older than 2 billion years old...) former shallow shelf seas. These are essentially ancient examples of hydrothermal fluids (hot waters) expelled from cooling oceanic crust. Earth's greatest examples of economic iron ore were formed in rythmic bands of haematite and magnetite (iron oxide minerals) and silica formed when hot Fe2+ rich fluids rose from anoxic oceans into surface waters which actually contained oxygen formed by the beginning of evolution of cyanobacteria (blue green algae), which were the first things to evolve to use photosynthesis, thus converting earths atmosphere from CO2 rich and deadly to oxygen rich as it is today. The interaction with oxygen oxidised the reduced fluids from Fe2+ to Fe3+ becoming insoluble as iron oxides. The earth's iron resources are the result of a one time only geological circumstance (oxyatmoinversion) which will never happen again. When we use it up, its gone.

Gold forms in numerous environments, again, often old.

3 main types of gold deposits exist in nature:

1) Conglomerate hosted gold

40% of the gold ever mined is from the Witwatersrand in South Africa.
This formed as a modified placer type deposit. Tiny amounts of gold from mountain ranges (explained in a moment) were eroded from river systems which eventually deposited heavy gold in energetically slow environments when the river system could no longer carry it. This was then upgraded and concentrated by hot waters, and potentially a meteor impact.

The second major type of gold forms in orogenic zones. When geological plates collide, huge pressures and temperatures occur, forming mountain ranges. The heat concentrates minute amounts of gold which collects in weak zones in mountains.

The third type of gold deposits are known as epithermal. Again, hot waters are key, in this case coming off volcanoes, these are acidic, hot, and Cl- rich and scavenge gold from within the local rocks. When these hot fluids rise towards the surface they can dump the gold in economic concentrations in a variety of ways: Either through:

Boiling: The pressure reduction caused by the fluids rising towards the surface results in the exolution of trapped gases. This exerts a strong cooling effect, destabilising the complexes moving the gold, causing it to be dumped in one place.

Interaction with other fluids: Other surface waters can also exert a cooling effect doing the same thing as described above.

Wall rock interaction: If these acidic fluids come into contact with limestones, or other chemically different rocks, the neutralisation of the fluids by the carbonates also causes the fluid complexes to dump the gold.
 
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