Windzarko
Well-Known Member
Big first note:
We have a custom chat channel, /thn, which works as a shared chat for Haven LX and The Haven; all members of either guild are welcome in this channel, even if their only involvement with The Haven is having a character in LX! The idea behind this channel is so people in LX can keep communicating with their friends in The Haven without having to be on Teamspeak the whole time. Like I said, anyone is welcome in the channel, it's all for the sake of community!
Now, on with the show!
Going to try and consolidate as much info into one place as possible for all to see, as I've been saying I would. Note that the info about the actual raiding applied to everyone participating, and not just to the actual members of Haven LX! This is likely going to end up as a rather long post and will be added to when relevant. I'll try and note when something is a hard-and-fast rule/fact, and when it's a suggestion/flexible part. If there are any questions, ask them in-game, in a PM, or in this thread, and anything relevant will get added to this thread so others don't have to ask the same question.
Right, first section is for the guild itself:
Haven LX
Guild bank - at the time of writing, the guild bank currently has three tabs. The first tab is intended for longer-term storage of stuff, or for storing the more valuable items that have to be distributed carefully (examples including rare materials or recipes). The second tab is open for almost everyone to deposit into, and the third is open to both deposits and withdrawals. At the moment, if you have spare, less common trade goods or BoE drops that others may/will want, feel free to put them into the third tab. Relevant level 60-ish stuff (Tier 0 pieces, recipes, rep hand-ins, rarer materials) should go into the second tab. This all seems very disorganised, but a good rule of thumb is that common or lowbie stuff should go into the third tab so anyone can get at it. Later on, we'll clear up and regulate the bank more to keep things fair and prevent overflow.
Levelling up to 60 - level up any way you want, be it solo, in a group, getting boosted, doing PvP, whatever. The usual rules of conduct apply (you are effectively a representative of both guilds if you have the LX tag over your head), but there isn't much else to say on this. Do feel free to use Heirloom items - indeed, I'd encourage it for faster levelling.
Ranks in LX - there are five ranks in the guild:
*"Alter Ego" is for any characters beyond the main one in there (for example, some people can't make up their minds which to use, or plan to bring a second one up later or somesuch); you can have as many 60-or-under characters in the guild as you want, just make sure you let us know it's you so we can set you to this rank and tag officer note with your name.
*"Young Quester" is for your main character in the guild while you're levelling up to 60. At the moment this is the main rank since we don't have many people at 60 yet. Once you have hit 60 and been to the experience-stopping chap in Orgrimmar, let an officer or myself know so we can bump you up to...
*"Vanilla Thrilla" is for experience-stopped people at level 60, regardless of whether they are ready for a raid or still struggling with 5-mans. Also, no, I cannot change it to "Thriller" because of the restrictions on rank name length
*"Herald of Ages" is the officer rank. At present there are two, there'll be more later on. Look to these people and myself for invites, sorting ranks, and getting stuff from the bank.
*"Nostalgic Prat" is me on Koreyna. Essentially just a Herald with a different name
Membership - there are no prerequisites for membership of LX, other than being under 61. You don't have to be a member to participate in the level 60 raids, you don't have to be 60 to join, you don't have to have ever had a character in The Haven to join; it's open to the guild, all friends of the guild, and any friendly folk out there who want to join in.
Next, a bit to clear up a LOT of the common questions
Gear and Gearing Up
Heirloom gear - while levelling up, feel free to use it, it really does speed things up. But during raids, Heirloom gear will not be allowed at all. I'd also encourage people to not use it in 5-mans, although wearing it while you're working on replacing it is fine; it'd be unfair to ask you to remove all your heirloom gear in a 5-man when you don't have replacements.
I know it can be difficult to replace the Heirloom items, and some people have felt that it'll be a painful loss, but think of it like this; since you won't be wearing it in the raid, you can treat that slot as empty so ANYTHING will be an upgrade.
Burning Crusade gear - even if you experience-stop yourself at 60, you can still experience a lot of two zones in Outland from 58-60, and run several dungeons from which gear drops. However, none of this gear will be allowed in the raids. This includes quest rewards, dungeons drops, and BoE drops from mobs. Now, with the latter you shall have to be careful, since some of the green item drops use the same naming system ("of the Wolf", "of the Tiger", etc) as the Vanilla BoE greens. Some can be easily spotted (for example, "of the Bandit" and "of the Prophet"), others less so. Any greens of level 55+ that you can get from the Auction House should be checked to make sure they aren't Outland ones; ask around if you aren't sure.
Crafted Gear - all Vanilla crafted gear, even the pieces that have had their stats changed since Vanilla (eg the Thorium plate set) are acceptable, since their itemlevels are the same, they've just been optimised to be not so spectacularly useless with the changed game/class mechanics. New pieces below skill-level 300 to craft are also allowed, including Jewelcrafting-created rings/necks/trinkets. Any 300+ skill pieces that you learn in Outland or later aren't allowed. Sometimes this can get a little tricky to work out, so the simplest way is to see the materials required; if it needs Outland materials, it isn't allowed. If in doubt, ask around to find out if it's Vanilla or BC.
Getting boosted in dungeons - some people will get boosts from higher levels (mainly 80s) while levelling up, which is fine, but please don't get boosted repeatedly through level 55-60 dungeons for the sake of gear-gathering. A boost for levelling up is fine, but a boost for gear for the raids goes a bit against the spirit of this venture. I'm not making it against the rules, but I'm asking that people don't do it, with one main exception: I know sometimes that one piece of gear is just mean to you and will NOT drop, and I don't mind people getting a few boosts for a piece that has refused to drop for you, but please do try doing it the normal way first!
Getting boosted in raids - this is a bit of a no-no. Again, it's not against the rules, but it's VERY much against the spirit of this venture, and I really do ask people to not do it. This raiding isn't about gear, it's about having fun and a challenge, and getting 80s to grind you through raids to easily pick up gear just cheapens that. If you do do it, I'd ask that you don't use that gear in the raids we do until we've actually started downing the bosses that drop those items.
Note: Some people wish to get boosted in Onyxia's lair to get their Tier 2 helmets while she's still a level 60 encounter. I'm fine with people doing this, provided they hold off on using any gear they get from it until we can at least get some decent progress in Molten Core, assuming we get that far. I can strongly sympathise with people wanting to do this, and I might even help out by boosting (don't hold me to that!), since that is a piece of Vanilla we'll be forever losing before we get the chance to raid it as 60s.
More common questions, unrelated to gear
Consumables and other non-gear items
Glyphs - are they allowed? Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that most glyphs are allowed, but it's best to check with us to make sure. I can't think of any glyphs that are game-breakingly good for level 60, but if there are any, we might have to put restrictions on them. All the minor glyphs are fine, including the ones that remove reagent requirements.
Buff Food - any Vanilla buff food is allowed. No BC or later ones are allowed. Simple as that!
Non-buffing Foods/COLOR] - any food that just restores health and/or mana is fine. These foods only affect downtime and don't empower your character in any way, so feel free to use any of these you can use at 60.
Potions, Elixirs and Flasks - all Vanilla ones are allowed, no BC/Wrath ones are allowed. Again, nice and simple. The one note I would add to this is that any Flasks/Elixirs that have been added to pre-300 skill since Vanilla are also fine (for example, the mid-level +hit elixir that got added in). To clarify for some people that have been asking: this means no Super Health/Mana potions!
Enchants - All vanilla enchants are allowed, none from Burning Crusade or Wrath. Spellthread and BC/Wrath leg armours aren't allowed either, but any of the Vanilla leatherworking-made armour patches are fine.
Mini-pets and Mounts - entirely up to the player. You can even get the bike or a multi-passenger mammoth on a level 60 if you really wanted, and that's fine. Yeah, we didn't have passenger-carrying mounts at 60, but it's hardly going to break gameplay.
Now for some more class-specfic stuff...
Class Notes
Mages - Blast Wave is problematic since it has a pushback and that can't be glyphed away at 60 (the Glyph needs level 70 for some reason). I'm going to ask that nobody used Blast Wave in the raids, but you can use it in instances if you wish.
Priests - Everything Priest-related is fine, including the radically-different Discipline tree (including the use of Penance, Pain Suppression, Power Infusion, and Divine Aegis).
Warlocks - Again, everything is fine, including Metamorphosis (be careful with it, though!)
Rogues - Everything is fine, including using axes
Druids - All forms can be used (including Tree Form which didn't exist back then), and all but one spell is fine; Typhoon is the same as a Mage's Blast Wave in that you can't glyph the pushback out at 60, so I'm going to ask that it isn't used. We might also rule out the use of Starfall, we'll have to see on that one. It's a spell unlike anything else and the radius on it is massive (and unglyphable at 60), so bear in mind that we might have to say no to it later.
Shaman - Only one thing to mention here; Thunderstorm IS allowed, but only as a mana restore. It mustn't be used as an offensive spell in raids on account of the knockback.
Hunters - Basically everything about hunters themselves is fine, but we might have to keep an eye on pets. Might not allow the use of BC/Wrath pets and Exotic pets, we'll see...
Warriors - All is fine, and yes, that includes Titan's Grip, but I would ask any Fury Warriors to not loot-whore the two-handed weapons since they're so few and far between
Paladins - Yes, Paladins are allowed, and I'm not going to get into a discussion about why. Long story short, you can have a Paladin in the raids if you want, but I ask that anyone else thinking of joining this doesn't roll a brand new Paladin for it, we already have quite a few. All Paladin abilities are fine apart from Divine Sacrifice. And yes, Paladins will be allowed to tank; it'd be boring if we only had warrior tanks, we're going for fun, not 100% vanilla authenticity!
Death Knights - At present, we have one DK, and it's going to stay that way for now. If anyone else DESPERATELY wants one, then you'll have to make an extremely good case for having one. And DKs have more restrictions than anyone else: no use of Death Grip, Anti-Magic Zone, Hungering Cold, and Anti-Magic Shield (unless tanking). No use of either of the two sets of gear from the DK starting zone in raids, and all pieces should be replaced through 5-mans ASAP. Ghouls might be something to look at as well... we'll see how it works out.
Extra Notes
Replenishment - Yes, Replenishment is allowed. In fact, considering how much classes have changed, we may well be crippled without it...
Class roles - The four classes that can heal used to usually not be allowed to do anything BUT healing; now that their DPS and Tanking trees are far more viable than before, we're not going to have any such restrictions at all.
Getting stuff from your other characters - Feel free to get your gear or consumables crafted by your main, and send back any old stuff you've been hoarding on an 80 if it'll help; you don't have to go grind and do EVERYTHING through level 60 characters!
Big note : all of the above can be flexible if need be. We don't know for sure yet how the classes will perform at level 60 now due to the changes to game and class mechanics that have occurred since patch 2.0 and beyond. If a class seems to be far too strong or is crippled, then we can make exceptions to try and compensate.
The ultimate aim of this entire effort is to have fun in the level 60 content. We can't have a truly authentic experience at all because of just how much has changed, and if we cut out as much of the change as possible, we'd be left with almost nothing, especially when you consider how much dungeon and crafted gear has been redone, and the fact that ALL talent trees are different now.
Think this should be it for now, I'll add/change information above as and when it's necessary. Let's get to 60 soon and start having fun!
We have a custom chat channel, /thn, which works as a shared chat for Haven LX and The Haven; all members of either guild are welcome in this channel, even if their only involvement with The Haven is having a character in LX! The idea behind this channel is so people in LX can keep communicating with their friends in The Haven without having to be on Teamspeak the whole time. Like I said, anyone is welcome in the channel, it's all for the sake of community!
Now, on with the show!
Going to try and consolidate as much info into one place as possible for all to see, as I've been saying I would. Note that the info about the actual raiding applied to everyone participating, and not just to the actual members of Haven LX! This is likely going to end up as a rather long post and will be added to when relevant. I'll try and note when something is a hard-and-fast rule/fact, and when it's a suggestion/flexible part. If there are any questions, ask them in-game, in a PM, or in this thread, and anything relevant will get added to this thread so others don't have to ask the same question.
Right, first section is for the guild itself:
Haven LX
Guild bank - at the time of writing, the guild bank currently has three tabs. The first tab is intended for longer-term storage of stuff, or for storing the more valuable items that have to be distributed carefully (examples including rare materials or recipes). The second tab is open for almost everyone to deposit into, and the third is open to both deposits and withdrawals. At the moment, if you have spare, less common trade goods or BoE drops that others may/will want, feel free to put them into the third tab. Relevant level 60-ish stuff (Tier 0 pieces, recipes, rep hand-ins, rarer materials) should go into the second tab. This all seems very disorganised, but a good rule of thumb is that common or lowbie stuff should go into the third tab so anyone can get at it. Later on, we'll clear up and regulate the bank more to keep things fair and prevent overflow.
Levelling up to 60 - level up any way you want, be it solo, in a group, getting boosted, doing PvP, whatever. The usual rules of conduct apply (you are effectively a representative of both guilds if you have the LX tag over your head), but there isn't much else to say on this. Do feel free to use Heirloom items - indeed, I'd encourage it for faster levelling.
Ranks in LX - there are five ranks in the guild:
*"Alter Ego" is for any characters beyond the main one in there (for example, some people can't make up their minds which to use, or plan to bring a second one up later or somesuch); you can have as many 60-or-under characters in the guild as you want, just make sure you let us know it's you so we can set you to this rank and tag officer note with your name.
*"Young Quester" is for your main character in the guild while you're levelling up to 60. At the moment this is the main rank since we don't have many people at 60 yet. Once you have hit 60 and been to the experience-stopping chap in Orgrimmar, let an officer or myself know so we can bump you up to...
*"Vanilla Thrilla" is for experience-stopped people at level 60, regardless of whether they are ready for a raid or still struggling with 5-mans. Also, no, I cannot change it to "Thriller" because of the restrictions on rank name length
*"Herald of Ages" is the officer rank. At present there are two, there'll be more later on. Look to these people and myself for invites, sorting ranks, and getting stuff from the bank.
*"Nostalgic Prat" is me on Koreyna. Essentially just a Herald with a different name
Membership - there are no prerequisites for membership of LX, other than being under 61. You don't have to be a member to participate in the level 60 raids, you don't have to be 60 to join, you don't have to have ever had a character in The Haven to join; it's open to the guild, all friends of the guild, and any friendly folk out there who want to join in.
Next, a bit to clear up a LOT of the common questions
Gear and Gearing Up
Heirloom gear - while levelling up, feel free to use it, it really does speed things up. But during raids, Heirloom gear will not be allowed at all. I'd also encourage people to not use it in 5-mans, although wearing it while you're working on replacing it is fine; it'd be unfair to ask you to remove all your heirloom gear in a 5-man when you don't have replacements.
I know it can be difficult to replace the Heirloom items, and some people have felt that it'll be a painful loss, but think of it like this; since you won't be wearing it in the raid, you can treat that slot as empty so ANYTHING will be an upgrade.
Burning Crusade gear - even if you experience-stop yourself at 60, you can still experience a lot of two zones in Outland from 58-60, and run several dungeons from which gear drops. However, none of this gear will be allowed in the raids. This includes quest rewards, dungeons drops, and BoE drops from mobs. Now, with the latter you shall have to be careful, since some of the green item drops use the same naming system ("of the Wolf", "of the Tiger", etc) as the Vanilla BoE greens. Some can be easily spotted (for example, "of the Bandit" and "of the Prophet"), others less so. Any greens of level 55+ that you can get from the Auction House should be checked to make sure they aren't Outland ones; ask around if you aren't sure.
Crafted Gear - all Vanilla crafted gear, even the pieces that have had their stats changed since Vanilla (eg the Thorium plate set) are acceptable, since their itemlevels are the same, they've just been optimised to be not so spectacularly useless with the changed game/class mechanics. New pieces below skill-level 300 to craft are also allowed, including Jewelcrafting-created rings/necks/trinkets. Any 300+ skill pieces that you learn in Outland or later aren't allowed. Sometimes this can get a little tricky to work out, so the simplest way is to see the materials required; if it needs Outland materials, it isn't allowed. If in doubt, ask around to find out if it's Vanilla or BC.
Getting boosted in dungeons - some people will get boosts from higher levels (mainly 80s) while levelling up, which is fine, but please don't get boosted repeatedly through level 55-60 dungeons for the sake of gear-gathering. A boost for levelling up is fine, but a boost for gear for the raids goes a bit against the spirit of this venture. I'm not making it against the rules, but I'm asking that people don't do it, with one main exception: I know sometimes that one piece of gear is just mean to you and will NOT drop, and I don't mind people getting a few boosts for a piece that has refused to drop for you, but please do try doing it the normal way first!
Getting boosted in raids - this is a bit of a no-no. Again, it's not against the rules, but it's VERY much against the spirit of this venture, and I really do ask people to not do it. This raiding isn't about gear, it's about having fun and a challenge, and getting 80s to grind you through raids to easily pick up gear just cheapens that. If you do do it, I'd ask that you don't use that gear in the raids we do until we've actually started downing the bosses that drop those items.
Note: Some people wish to get boosted in Onyxia's lair to get their Tier 2 helmets while she's still a level 60 encounter. I'm fine with people doing this, provided they hold off on using any gear they get from it until we can at least get some decent progress in Molten Core, assuming we get that far. I can strongly sympathise with people wanting to do this, and I might even help out by boosting (don't hold me to that!), since that is a piece of Vanilla we'll be forever losing before we get the chance to raid it as 60s.
More common questions, unrelated to gear
Consumables and other non-gear items
Glyphs - are they allowed? Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that most glyphs are allowed, but it's best to check with us to make sure. I can't think of any glyphs that are game-breakingly good for level 60, but if there are any, we might have to put restrictions on them. All the minor glyphs are fine, including the ones that remove reagent requirements.
Buff Food - any Vanilla buff food is allowed. No BC or later ones are allowed. Simple as that!
Non-buffing Foods/COLOR] - any food that just restores health and/or mana is fine. These foods only affect downtime and don't empower your character in any way, so feel free to use any of these you can use at 60.
Potions, Elixirs and Flasks - all Vanilla ones are allowed, no BC/Wrath ones are allowed. Again, nice and simple. The one note I would add to this is that any Flasks/Elixirs that have been added to pre-300 skill since Vanilla are also fine (for example, the mid-level +hit elixir that got added in). To clarify for some people that have been asking: this means no Super Health/Mana potions!
Enchants - All vanilla enchants are allowed, none from Burning Crusade or Wrath. Spellthread and BC/Wrath leg armours aren't allowed either, but any of the Vanilla leatherworking-made armour patches are fine.
Mini-pets and Mounts - entirely up to the player. You can even get the bike or a multi-passenger mammoth on a level 60 if you really wanted, and that's fine. Yeah, we didn't have passenger-carrying mounts at 60, but it's hardly going to break gameplay.
Now for some more class-specfic stuff...
Class Notes
Mages - Blast Wave is problematic since it has a pushback and that can't be glyphed away at 60 (the Glyph needs level 70 for some reason). I'm going to ask that nobody used Blast Wave in the raids, but you can use it in instances if you wish.
Priests - Everything Priest-related is fine, including the radically-different Discipline tree (including the use of Penance, Pain Suppression, Power Infusion, and Divine Aegis).
Warlocks - Again, everything is fine, including Metamorphosis (be careful with it, though!)
Rogues - Everything is fine, including using axes
Druids - All forms can be used (including Tree Form which didn't exist back then), and all but one spell is fine; Typhoon is the same as a Mage's Blast Wave in that you can't glyph the pushback out at 60, so I'm going to ask that it isn't used. We might also rule out the use of Starfall, we'll have to see on that one. It's a spell unlike anything else and the radius on it is massive (and unglyphable at 60), so bear in mind that we might have to say no to it later.
Shaman - Only one thing to mention here; Thunderstorm IS allowed, but only as a mana restore. It mustn't be used as an offensive spell in raids on account of the knockback.
Hunters - Basically everything about hunters themselves is fine, but we might have to keep an eye on pets. Might not allow the use of BC/Wrath pets and Exotic pets, we'll see...
Warriors - All is fine, and yes, that includes Titan's Grip, but I would ask any Fury Warriors to not loot-whore the two-handed weapons since they're so few and far between
Paladins - Yes, Paladins are allowed, and I'm not going to get into a discussion about why. Long story short, you can have a Paladin in the raids if you want, but I ask that anyone else thinking of joining this doesn't roll a brand new Paladin for it, we already have quite a few. All Paladin abilities are fine apart from Divine Sacrifice. And yes, Paladins will be allowed to tank; it'd be boring if we only had warrior tanks, we're going for fun, not 100% vanilla authenticity!
Death Knights - At present, we have one DK, and it's going to stay that way for now. If anyone else DESPERATELY wants one, then you'll have to make an extremely good case for having one. And DKs have more restrictions than anyone else: no use of Death Grip, Anti-Magic Zone, Hungering Cold, and Anti-Magic Shield (unless tanking). No use of either of the two sets of gear from the DK starting zone in raids, and all pieces should be replaced through 5-mans ASAP. Ghouls might be something to look at as well... we'll see how it works out.
Extra Notes
Replenishment - Yes, Replenishment is allowed. In fact, considering how much classes have changed, we may well be crippled without it...
Class roles - The four classes that can heal used to usually not be allowed to do anything BUT healing; now that their DPS and Tanking trees are far more viable than before, we're not going to have any such restrictions at all.
Getting stuff from your other characters - Feel free to get your gear or consumables crafted by your main, and send back any old stuff you've been hoarding on an 80 if it'll help; you don't have to go grind and do EVERYTHING through level 60 characters!
Big note : all of the above can be flexible if need be. We don't know for sure yet how the classes will perform at level 60 now due to the changes to game and class mechanics that have occurred since patch 2.0 and beyond. If a class seems to be far too strong or is crippled, then we can make exceptions to try and compensate.
The ultimate aim of this entire effort is to have fun in the level 60 content. We can't have a truly authentic experience at all because of just how much has changed, and if we cut out as much of the change as possible, we'd be left with almost nothing, especially when you consider how much dungeon and crafted gear has been redone, and the fact that ALL talent trees are different now.
Think this should be it for now, I'll add/change information above as and when it's necessary. Let's get to 60 soon and start having fun!
