Haven Raiders

[Duren]

From discussion on teamspeak about what we want from raiding and how we should split up etc. I had dismissed gizmo's idea about splitting up but now it may seem like a good idea.

Here's what I've been thinking

We will need two guild leaders.

The Haven
----------
This is for the regular guild who join haven and for standard instances. If the player wants to go for serious raiding they move to the following.
All rules apply that are currently in place for "The Haven" players.

Forums - Required?
Teamspeak - Optional?


Haven Raiders
-------------
This is for the raiders. Only people for higher level instances.

Forums - Required
Teamspeak - Required
raid roster - Required
raid calendar - Required
Lvl 70 - Required

And to check all the above and sign up for events.

------------
People can move back and forth between as decided by captains/guildmasters
Though before being moved into the Raiding part of the guild you have to fulfil l all the above requirements before being invited in.

I also suggest that we create a new channel for communication between the two guilds.

/join thehaven as a suggested channel that is displayed in the guild info upon login.

Please give your thoughts.

Thanks,
Duren

 

[Haven]

Lvl 70 exclusivity annoys me. This excludes anyone not purchasing the burning crusade from raiding with us. I would argue 59+ only.

Roster whilst nice should not be required IMO - I don't particularly care what kit people have, if they want to post it up then fine but it should not be a requirement. As long as we know what class/level they are then we have the info we need to balance the raid group.

Teamspeak and Forums I agree with.

Raid calendar (I assume you mean phpRaid ?) ... not sure, depends how we organise raids from now on. We have three options: GEM, forums or phpRaid. Until we've decided which of the three systems we will use we cannot expect anyone to adhere to that. Lets get a decision before we worry about this one.

The whole in-game channels strikes me as madness - there is a reason we are pushing teamspeak so hard!

Lets not make this any more convoluted and beaurocratic than we need to. My thoughts for what they are worth.

 

[Nanor]

Oi! Gizmo stole my idea! This is my idea!

Anyway, I'm all for it. We can still create a channel where both guilds can join, and this channel can be changed to the defualt guild chat colour so we can see and converse with our other guild mates. We'd still essentially be one guild, but with easier levels of recognition.

/me is all for it!

 

[kershan]

Something about this idea doesn't feel quite right to me. It feels like it would tend to fragment the in-game community we have, especially with getting people to join channels/Teamspeak, given the trouble we have just getting people to sign up for the forums. Also, going Teamspeak-only for communication between two guilds in the event of a split would further exacerbate this, as with Teamspeak optional in the non-raid side and some people (such as myself) unable to use Teamspeak currently due to technical reasons (The Mac version only supports one of the codecs, hasn't been updated in over a year, and has several known severe crashing bugs on Intel Macs, preventing it being at all usable), this would leave us without an easy way to communicate with all online guild members simultaneously.

In addition to this, while I welcome an increased focus on raiding, I feel that a split-guild solution would perhaps cater too heavily to the hardcore side of raiding and make it more difficult for more casual players to experience raid content as part of the guild. As it stands currently, anyone who meets the requirements for the raid in question can sign up, while in a split-guild system it would seem that they would first need to transfer to the 'raid arm' to join. It just seems like something that would be eventually detrimental to the guild as a whole, and introduce divisive elements for little concrete benefit.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, and I don't expect it to hold much weight, as I'm nowhere near the level at which raid content becomes available to me. Hopefully it'll at least be of use to someone.

 

[Nanor]

Kershan does have a point. Perhaps a less extreme version would be promotions. Once someone has reached all requirements they are given a rank (Like Captain etc.) so you can tell the difference.

 

[Birdy]

I feel the same. If the rules go on as they stand as above I would go menta! its just not fair! I love to raid all day and night but I wana do other stuff and I dont wanna keep moving from one to the other! Its crazy!

TBH I need some clarification on the issues that have sparked this convosation?!

I dont see the problem with a single guild and chat that has high lvl ppl to raid and low lvl players who quest 24/7 and who we encourage to grow and develope to join the raiders.

So yea I see the division but I dont see the necesity to act on it

 

[thatbloke]

I would be against this. There is no reason that we cannot have a guild within a guild here... instead of splitting up The Haven into two guilds. It may be worth, instead of creating a second guild in-game, and thereby destroying The Haven in my opinion, to perhaps have a second invite-only Usergroup on these forums instead (like the bf2 clan usergroup), moderated by guild leaders/captains/raid leaders and where more info on the raiding could be placed.

Doing this I feel would provide sufficient privacy from outside the raiders whilst maintaining the slightly more "hardcore" attitude of the raiders.

Obviously we would need a BIG sticky in the main WoW forums explaining that if you want to start raiding with us you have to be approved... (i.e. part of the raiding usergroup) and explaining all of our guidelines and requirements.

 

[Duren]

This is a discussion point as I said. I can see a generally "against" forming, which is what I thought too... It is true we don't need it but I wanted to see what ideas and points were brought up about it.

though the feedback I got from the ZG raid was essentially this.

"didnt really enjoy it"

"unorganised"

"A severe lack of enthusiasm from some"

to name some, so I either have to think up a way for it to become more organised and more fun.

I'm thinking along the lines of 2+ days a week for the serious raiders and 2+ days a week -everyone- in the guild welcome. Essentially I'm wanting to find out who wants to do raiding seriously so I can pick them out and say right these are the days and here are the rules.

This discussion is helping me form a set way of doing things. thanks for your input so far.

 

[thatbloke]

My problem with picking a set time every week is that with my current job I'm not working the same hours every week, so though I would expect to be able to attend some raids... I would not be able to attend ALL raids

 

[Loki]

Oh dear...

Wrote a big post and the forum ate it. Anywho... Raiding needs the following in my opinion.

Minimum level 60+.
Preparation in terms of pots/buffs/repairs/reading up on old encounters
Perseverance on difficult bosses.
Teamspeak/addons/bossmods/decursive etc.

Two guilds is a reasonable idea. There are way too many alt characters floating around. I would shift them into an alt guild, and start recruiting necessary classes. With a recruitment procedure that exceeds, /ginvite.

BTW raiding is the most enjoyable part of the game for me.

 

[Birdy]

but do we wana just be a raiding guild??

 

[Windzarko]

This guild is not, hasn't been, and will never be a pure raiding guild. Raiding is something that will hopefully become commonplace, but it will not be the basis of play, nor will it be the primary driving force behind the guild; The Haven is a community guild for all the nutters like us ^^

 

[Duren]

but do we wana just be a raiding guild??

Thatbird, of course we don't want to be just a raiding guild. What we are trying to do is cater for everyone. Which is what we have always strived to do.

We want everyone to have the oppurtunity to have a go at all aspects of the game.

I think essentially what I'm going to do is get a dedicated group of raiders together which I believe is going to happen soon. I believe qantaqas idea of a seperate part of the forums would be a good idea. This could be locked by a usergroup. This way we are not too exclusive. Once people have fulfilled all the criteria they get accepted onto the usergroup where they can see whats going on.

Thoughts on that?

Cheers,
Duren

 

[Haven]

We have a perfectly servicable forum here ... I don't see the need for a second one and I think it would just confuse users to have more than one place to look for things. Prefix subject title with [Raid] for raid info and we are ready to rock.

 

[kershan]

I agree with Haven here. It's not like these forums are so massively busy that raid topics would get lost in a flood of other topics. Of course, if we ever reached a point at which they were, then a second forum for raids might be worth considering.

 

[Duren]

We have a perfectly servicable forum here ... I don't see the need for a second one and I think it would just confuse users to have more than one place to look for things. Prefix subject title with [Raid] for raid info and we are ready to rock.

ok np I'm moving this idea away from that as is. Case closed for me.

 

[Gizmo-5]

im not up with splitting guilds im afraid, sounds a bit to much like elitism to me = /

Im perfectly willing to respec holy or disc once i hit 70, its just whether or not other members are willing to give as much, for example i sat around asking for guild support for half an hour and none came, i normally find time to help lowbies, if you want a holy priest (a class that SUCKS for anything other than raiding) that badly a little bit of support would be appreciated.

i also believe that just randomly recruiting people that are the right level and class is a bad idea, they normally do not form as part of the community, and hence do not have a desire to give to it, and are more willing to take. Building players up from 40ish or so would be a better idea, although it would take longer you would create fewer, but more loyal and usually better players who would be willing to contribute.

just my 2 pennies.

 

[Haven]

i sat around asking for guild support for half an hour and none came

Sometimes people are just busy/more interested in their own things. You have to accept that fact. Also I see the guild chat sometimes appears to becoming a spam fest of "give me gold", "how do I get epics", "give me help". There is little incentive to read it when it is just a bottomless pit of help requests.

Finally, if you really want help then teamspeak is the place to be. The people most likely to help are the ones on there. You will also be heard and not ignored like the guild chat.

 

[iasus]

omg gizmo, holy spec pwns =o and not just for raiding give me a few months to get sorted and i'll be showing you =p see ya in the Outland

-Dark

 

[Gizmo-5]

Sometimes people are just busy/more interested in their own things. You have to accept that fact. Also I see the guild chat sometimes appears to becoming a spam fest of "give me gold", "how do I get epics", "give me help". There is little incentive to read it when it is just a bottomless pit of help requests.

Finally, if you really want help then teamspeak is the place to be. The people most likely to help are the ones on there. You will also be heard and not ignored like the guild chat.

Haven... this is gizmodous, im always on teamspeak, i always help others whenever i am asked, it would be nice if the favour was returned.

Also in response to kdavrous dude, youve been away a long time, you guys have been nerfed right into the ground, the only thing you had going for you was Prayer of Mending, and theyved fucked that too lolwell is useless, the only advantage you have is a slightly lower threat and 2 extra greater heals. It would actually be better to play Disc