Raid invites policy

[Jayde]

Hello folks,

following yesterday's raid I would like the officers to clarify what's the procedure on raid invites in light of the new scarcity of raid spots caused by the recent heavy growth of the guild.

It seems that RSVP signup order has become the sole criterion for raid invites. Yesterday we had the extreme case where at least one signed up "Yes" online Progression character was missing out on Tempest Keep when there were 2 people in the raid who weren't even raiders (Trial Raider and up). Don't get me wrong here, I absolutely support having new people around. But my understanding is that non-raiders are only to be considered when there are not enough raiders signed up, especially since everyone is free to apply as Trial Raider.

So what I'd like to know:

1. What's the point of the Trial Raider and Progression ranks if they don't affect raid spot distribution?
2. What's the point of RSVP Maybe? As Maybes are considered after Yesses smart people will RSVP Yes on every single raid they have the slimmest chance of attending and do so as early as possible. Updating your RSVP to anything other than No is not viable because you'll end up at the bottom of the list and won't get invited anyway.

What the current system basically does is:

• Not properly rewarding persistency and effort of building up your progression character.
• Potentially hurting progression raid performance.
• Punishing you for keeping your guildies up to date on your availability for the next raid.

Matter-of-fact comments and explanations highly appreciated.

 

[Leiz]

As this concerns me a bit I think I should say something about how I feel. Although I was one of the first few peeps who signed up on the raid, I had to sign as maybe, as there was 75% chance that I will be going with you. Some might say it's much, but I didn't want to mix all the things if I would not be able to come. On Friday i knew on 90% that I can come, so I changed my RSVP on yes, and landed on the very bottom. Later when I logged to see the invites I heard that you guys are picking people just by the list, so I kinda lost all of the hope that I will come. And to be clear- I am not mad at anyone, not saying that you did wrong, maybe it wasn't my turn to go raiding. I, just as J, want to know how the raiding invites work. If you go by the list, say it, so I can prepare myself for da failure, if I RSVP too late ^^ .

 

[Razaak]

The resetting of the time when you change your signup is a known problem with the forum software, and it has been reported, but until it's fixed we have no way of knowing if someone's signed up late, or simply changed their signup. The time even resets if you add a note to an existing signup without changing the yes/no/maybe status.

The normal way we fill raids is Tanks and healers first, then DPS. If we're doing TK and need three mages for CC, they get added in signup order. Then we need a melee group for adds on Al'ar phase one, so that gets added in the same way. Then we fill the remaining spaces, primarily using signup order but ensuring the class balance is right as far as practicable.

I take your point about progression having priority over trials, but if we never bring the trialists to raids, how are we meant to assess their suitability? We did actually pass over a couple of trialists in favour of a progression member for the last spot in TK last night, and I think if it wasn't for the problem with signup times being reset, you would have been in the raid (probably as one of those first three mages).

Sorry if you got caught out by circumstance this time, we do take note of who has missed out on a raid, and try to make sure they get a higher priority next time. In a way it's nice to have the problem of fitting 34 signups into a 25 man raid, but the downside is that someone is going to miss out. Believe me, we do realise that, but it's better than the alternative of having to PUG spots cos we don't have enough people.

 

[Jayde]

Okay, that clears things up. It's good to hear that the officers are trying to track who's been missing out and balance stuff. There surely isn't more that can possibly be done from your side.

One thing I want to point out though: I was not suggesting that progression should usually get preference over trials. The thing with last night's raid was that 2 people who were both neither trial nor progression were taken instead of a progression although one of them was even of the same class, so it wouldn't even have made a difference for group composition. And that got me slightly concerned that RSVP order had suddenly become the most important aspect.

Anyway, thanks for the info Raz!

 

[Windzarko]

The way we do things can seem a little random and wobbly, but trust me when I say that there are (usually) intelligent decisions behind everything. We try to be as fair as possible, but there are different levels of being fair; there's being fair to individuals by remembering who didn't get to go one week and trying to give them higher priority, but there's also being fair to the group as a whole by making sure we have the group build to do the encounters we're intending to try without too much stress.

It's good that you made this thread, since you're not the only one confused about how signups translate to who gets in, and it's about time it got explained; Raz outlined the system as it basically is, and until we can get it changed so that switching from Yes to Maybe or vice-versa doesn't drop you to the bottom of the order, it's still going to be a bit finnicky. Like I said, though, we try to bear what we can in mind and keep things as fair as possible.

If someone genuinely feels like they're getting screwed over by the system and aren't getting into any raids because of it, please shout out and let us know, the last tihng we want to do is alienate or exclude people unintentionally.

 

[thatbloke]

An addition to Raz and Windzarko's post...

Use a healthy dose of common sense. We need a group that is capable of finishing the encounters we are aiming to do, so no point in taking 15 melee just because 15 melee happen to be the first to sign up!

When using common sense, it is difficult to define a set of rules that you can place in stone, but trust me that all decisions are as fair as we can get them to be.

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

Surely trial raiders are punished enough with loot prorities without being forced to sit out, you should just have one rule: "raid leader for the night's word is final" for invites.

 

[Razaak]

In what way? Trial raiders get to roll just the same as Progression members; the only restrictions are on offspec and alts.

If you're in the raid that kills a boss, you have the same loot rights as anyone else.

 

[Chumpo]

Killer, we dont punish trials on loot. If people are there for a downing of a boss, they get to roll if they need it. There are very few exceptions to this, and when they are they are rare and valid.

 

[Windzarko]

There's a separate thread on loot rights that I've stickied recently. It should clear up any loot confusion.

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

Killer, we dont punish trials on loot. If people are there for a downing of a boss, they get to roll if they need it. There are very few exceptions to this, and when they are they are rare and valid.

Thats very good of you, on the server im at. I've seen every boss in MH go down and 1-3 in BT with no chance of getting loot.
And thats how every guild on the server expects their recruits to behave. Personally i think its retarded they expect you to play for 1 month and raid 5 times a week, when you get only get loot if no one else wants it. I've been through this twice, and i am very glad that loot is unimportant to me.

I've had to give up on the game though now*, as i am only intrested in seeing council and illidan die, and on the server there are only 4 guilds that have killed illdan and they all do sunwell and are not recruiting, and the guilds below them have not even killed RoS yet, so the server is effectively dead in alliance BT.

*And its strange, my sub ended on 15th 6 days after i canceled my sub and stopped playing,(got an invite to the wrath beta on the 13th lol).I am finding myself unable to play games on my pc, i cant keep concentration for longer than 40 mins, yet wow could keep me enthralled for 6-8 hours, hah the void left by it is very strange. [strike]At least now my parents have been proved wrong with their cries of "you're addicted to it, you cant stop; like on tv". So now i just play games for short(exept ASw) periods of time and watch TV.[/strike]

So, go cancel ur sub and then dont play for a week, im sure its just a coincidence, but u never know.

 

[thatbloke]

Can I has your beta key?

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

Delete my evil response.