Raid progression

Xylak

Xylak

New Member
Hi Folks,

Last nights raiding was fantastic as we almost cleared Bastion of Twilight in one evening. If we hadn't have got bogged down on the Assembly Council and had a bit more time on Cho'gall I think we may very well have done it. Even so, the determination and mood of everybody was great to see.

After the recent difficulties in raiding, I think we are now "progressing" rather than simply catching up with where we were a month or two ago. I'm confident that our first proper "final" Cataclysm boss kill is imminent.
Yes, I know the fights have been nerfed a little but they are by no means a faceroll. Tactics, skill and effort are still required by each raid member to guarantee success.

I want to thank everyone who has helped keep raiding alive including those random people we have occasionally dragged in to make up the numbers. We have some great new Raiders and Trial Raiders who are improving every week and I hope this trend continues.

I hope you guys are happy with the way I've been managing raids - even though I often dump Lideon with Raid Leader because not only is he a great tank he makes a solid, calm Leader.
If you have any comments on how good/bad I am or decisions I make, please feel free to let me know -either p.m. me here or /w me in game. Anything said in confidence will be kept that way.
Thanks to all the people who have supported and helped me in my new role as raid organiser, especially Lideon - thanks, mate, your input is very very much appreciated.



I think this might be a good time to mention this too...
In the coming weeks I can see us having to leave people out of certain raid nights due to increasing numbers and the variety of skill/gear levels. I hope to do my best to ensure everyone gets to do something each week but if you DO get left out I hope you'll understand. As our numbers increase this will become less of an issue and I hope we end up being able to have two simultaneous group again.

Also...
While we may end up with a "progression" crew (there, I said it!), I don't intend for it to become an "elitist" group. Just the best geared and most able people available at the time that will allow us to push forwards. Personally, I think this is a natural result of raiding the way we do it as we often end up with a very broad range of people and characters.
This also includes replacements part way through a raid (as happened last night). There will be times when we get to a certain point where the current group will not make it through the fight for various reasons and members will need to be changed. If this happens to you, I'll do my best to explain why and I hope you'll understand. I'll try to be honest with you and, normally, any criticism will also be constructive which I hope you will take as such. If you have ANY issues with the way I handle things, please feel free to complain directly to me or you can talk to Auryn or Zooggy as our guild leaders.
(btw, none of the above is aimed at anyone in particular nor as the result of any specific complaint - simply to get the point made and out there)

Please note that we WILL be helping those who need to improve to do so with gearing runs plus personal help and advice where needed or requested. If you're struggling in your role or class, for any reason at all, there are plenty of people who have a good understanding of each class/role who are always willing to help so just ask.

Once again, thank you all for your support, help and the fun that we have going raiding.

For The Haven.
For The Horde.

~ Xylak ~
 
Nactall

Nactall

New Member
Awesome to hear that you are progressing again and raiding numbers are getting better as well.

Cool,
Nactall
 
Xylak

Xylak

New Member
Windzarko said:
Sounds... familiar. Have we been here before? :p

Seriously, though; go get 'em.

Also, for anyone who recognises what I linked to there, I am sorry for reminding you of it!
Click to expand...

You missed the first word.. "While...". And that I "quoted" progression. And maybe I should have emphasised "may".
(yes, yes, I know that your comment was probably mostly in jest but....)

This seems to be a contentious topic but one which I thought worth mentioning and MY personal stance (which, in a way, has a knock-on effect in that it affects how the raids are run). What I wanted to do was get my stance on this out there and in the open before it became an issue.

As far as I'm concerned, there is not, and should not be, a fixed group of players that are "THE progression team", if there IS then it is almost ANY PLAYER who is ranked as "Raider". What I wanted to do was highlight that there are a broad range of players of varying abilities and characters. There will be times when we need to select the right balance of these players and characters to achieve certain goals (specifically, boss kills). It may be that one week you will be included in a "progression" run and the next week not. This may be due to any number of factors which may include player rotation, class, availability.

I do want to make this as clear as I can: I believe in the concept of a "progression" group, however this is NOT a fixed list of players. We may not even DO what would be considered a "progression" run every week.

I wanted to highlight, especially to new raiders/trial raiders, that you MAY be left out of a raid night or be asked to leave the raid to make room for more able players/characters that have a better chance of downing a boss - especially if it's one we haven't encountered much before.
We should give everyone who starts a raid as much chance and time as possible to stay and be in on every boss kill we do in that instance/evening. However, there will, very occasionally, be times when we reach a point that that group will not make a kill for a variety of reasons and players/characters will need to be changed.
As the number of Raiders increases I am hoping that this will become less of an issue as we mix people around but, at the moment, were heading to the realms of "too many people, not enough space" (which is kinda good).

As I have said, if ANYONE has any issue with how the raids are run and/or the people selected to run in them, please, please let me know - pm me on here (I get email alerts), mail or /w me in game or talk to me on TS.

I have lots of fun and I love raiding with The Haven - I want to be sure everyone else does too. :)


/ps
Windzarko said:
Seriously, though; go get 'em.
Click to expand...
Damn straight! :D
 
Doxbee

Doxbee

In Cryo Sleep
Xylak...

Just want to say that your original post is spot on. I for one think you're doing a really good job and want to thank you for my inclusions on recent raids. I know that I'm not the best geared/skilled player and now that we, as a guild, have more interest in raiding now (which is good, as you say), then the stronger players will be needed for progression raids. However...

I have voiced my opinion before (under the old regime) regarding the non-inclusion of 'lesser' players and the elitism that seemed to evolve from progression raiding. It seemed to me that once a certain raid was cracked and all the A-Team (as I used to refer to them) had their necessary shinies, there was little or no interest in re-running the raid for the rest of us. Just as I, and possibly one or two others, can appreciate sitting out a raid for the good of the guild, all I ask is that when we are in a position to run a raid with 'lesser' players, we're not forgotten.

On a personal note... I've been quite a solitary player in the past. I've quite enjoyed questing/levelling my characters. However, this has perhaps been at the expense of not getting too involved in the 'group' side of the game, ie. instances. As a result my gear and tactical awareness is not what it perhaps should be and it's hard to step into situations as a level 85 character where you're expected to know certain things that you just don't. The majority of PUGs are unsympathetic when you announce your noobishness and I've had reactions ranging from abuse to being kicked before the first pull.

(Before anyone suggests reading/watching a guide... I've done that, but there's no substitute for experience)

So...now that we have a good array of people on each night, not all of which are raiding, for the reasons stated above, if anyone is at a loss for something to do and wants to run me through a few HC's, I would appreciate it. :D

Don't make me beg.
 
thatbloke

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
Doxbee said:
However, this has perhaps been at the expense of not getting too involved in the 'group' side of the game, ie. instances. As a result my gear and tactical awareness is not what it perhaps should be and it's hard to step into situations as a level 85 character where you're expected to know certain things that you just don't. The majority of PUGs are unsympathetic when you announce your noobishness and I've had reactions ranging from abuse to being kicked before the first pull.

(Before anyone suggests reading/watching a guide... I've done that, but there's no substitute for experience)
Click to expand...

Straying offtopic here and this is NOT a criticism of anyone in The Haven - it's that attitude that now permeates a very large majority of the WoW playerbase which means that I don't play anymore.

I'm fed up of being told I'm a noob because I haven't read and understood 238746 different guides on various places on the internet.

A fault of the game itself is that there are now very few opportunities to actually learn to play the game within the game itself. Having seen the incoming dungeon journal on mmo-champ, that will certainly go well towards solving certain aspects of that problem, but it's not the only thing that needs doing. They need an in-game accessible encyclopaedia/reference of some kind (ideally searchable) that will tell me precisely what things like "diminishing returns" are, what "base damage" is and how it relates to the actual spell damage you do.

External guides/videos should be a supplement, not a requirement. The problem is that in many many people's eyes now, these things have become a requirement - and if you aren't following their favourite guide on how to play then you are, in their opinion, dead weight and don't even deserve to be playing the same game as them.
 
Xylak

Xylak

New Member
Unfortunately, there is a large element of truth in what Qman says. As the game gets easier, peoples patience wears thinner. A bit sad really. But, then, that's what The Haven is for. You'll find guildies will take the time to help you out, be patient with you, explain tactics, class play, setups, gear, gems, enchants and so on. And they'll allow you a certain element of "noobishness" (although we do reserve the right to point and laugh - but it's mostly in fun) although even guildies will lose patience with someone who doesn't listen (no, this is NOT aimed at anyone specific).

Doxbee said:
...all I ask is that when we are in a position to run a raid with 'lesser' players, we're not forgotten.
Click to expand...

There are no "lesser" players - unless you're just rubbish. There are inexperienced or undergeared players but no-one is considered "lesser" unless they don't improve their skills while raiding. There may be players who are better than you but that doesn't make you lesser - some people are just like that. I'm barely floating above average myself! And that's on a good night.
As our raid experience grows, and our raid team grows, there will be people both current and new that will need to do raids with alts or mains so I hope to ensure that everyone gets to do something each week. If that's not possible I'll rotate things around as much as I can so that we all get to do what we are capable of - we may do "gearing" runs or "progression" runs but mostly just "raiding" runs.
Don't worry, you may not get those end bosses down first, but you'll get them :)

Doxbee said:
...my gear and tactical awareness is not what it perhaps should be and it's hard to step into situations as a level 85 character where you're expected to know certain things that you just don't. The majority of PUGs are unsympathetic when you announce your noobishness and I've had reactions ranging from abuse to being kicked before the first pull.
Click to expand...

Welcome to The Haven.
As you may have noticed, we take the time with people to help them improve. We will always be patient with new raiders, explaining fight tactics, roles etc as much as necessary. Providing people listen, adapt, improve and make any necessary changes to their character (talents, gear, rotations, whatever) then we're here to help. As far as I'm concerned, this is pretty much a given part of being a Raider in The Haven. We help each other so that we, as a guild, as raiders, improve and progress.
You're welcome in raids as long as you're not just here for the ride but for the journey.


Also, you can come back and play with us, bloke. We won't call you a noob. Well, not often anyway ;).


(Although this is quite a serious post, I do want to stress that we are to have FUN raiding... this is an order from your Raid Officer. Anyone found not enjoying themselves will be called a misery-guts and a party-pooper. So there.)

For The Haven.
For The Horde.
 
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