[mod]By popular request, the title now reflects the exceptional length of this post in comparison to the usual posts you're used to reading here. Don't think you can just skim this at speed. As bob says, "it's a marathon, not a sprint". Grab a cup of tea and a biscuit, feel calm, read carefully. I believe it's well worth your while as I think the end product is going to be well cool. And once you've read it, let me know what you think or just post "oh my god, I've finished reading the thread of doom!" and that'd be cool too. 
--RS[/mod]
I'm working on an alternate design to the Mafia/Werewolf games we've been playing but I'd like some thoughts and feedback on some of the ideas I've been working on.
First, the basic game design doesn't appeal to my design ethics in two specific ways:
Sure, a game that kills people out is probably going to have an attrition to it and some sort of death penalty does help keep the game lively and pressured. However, being killed on day 0 or day 1 of the game can feel quite crap and I'd like to reduce that negative aspect.
So, bring on The Ninja Game (TNG), my take on the Mafia/Werewolf base game but with a number of differences and extensions.
Basic Premise
The players are all Samurai Lords (Diaymo). However, some of them are evil.
The Emperor and his heirs have been assassinated by ninja and war is now brewing with the neighbouring country who are known to be a safe haven to evil ninja. The Lords have gathered in the Imperial City to elect a Shogun to take control of the Imperial Army and lead them to victory, as the Army will only answer to a duly elected authority in the absence of the Emperor himself.
Every day, the Lords meet at the Imperial Palace to debate who should be made Shogun.
Every evening, the Lords vote as to who will be the Shogun. They can vote that no one should yet be elected and they retain that option every night. If there is a tie in voting, no one is elected Shogun that night.
When someone is elected they must spend a night in the Temple to cleanse themselves and prepare for their investiture on the following morning.
If a Shogun is elected and successfully invested (assuming he's not murdered overnight), each evening he can decide to order the Imperial Army to round up and execute one of the other Lords.
The good Lords win when the evil Lords are wiped out.
The evil Lords win when the good Lords are wiped out or when it becomes obvious that the good Lords can no longer defeat the evil ones (e.g. one good Lord left and the Shogun is evil).
Powers - Generically
Ultimately, there's a short list of powers that really exist in these games, that I've assessed so far:
The first two may seem almost obvious, but those "powers" are the ones lost when a player is killed out of the game. Knowing there's two means they could potentially be stripped or provided in different ways.
Attack and Defend speak for themselves, though I'll come back them both as regards TNG as I have a different take on them. In essence, though Defend is the counter to Attack.
Ambush is a variant of Attack. I'll come back to that below.
The difference between Spy and Divine is that the former is to see what happens, the second is to discover allegiance. I'm not totally sold on them being separate but I'd considered they might be. Cloak would then be the counter to Spy and/or Divine.
Build / Recruit is something these games don't apparently contain at the moment. I'll discuss more below.
Some of these powers are overt and some covert and some might be both at different times. Green powers are overt and are always played in the day. Red powers are covert and are always played at night. Orange powers might be either or both simultaneously, depending on various factors discussed below.
Powers - Specifically
For TNG, my approach is to provide players with multiple "playing pieces" that provide themselves with different powers.
Each player, of course, has their Lord, who can Talk and Vote.
Each Lord has their Samurai Bodyguards, who can Attack and Defend.
Each Lord may also have one additional "piece" to bring to bear.
The evil Lords have their Black Ninja, who can also Attack or Ambush.
Some Lords might also have one of the following:
Not all these need actually be included in the game and others could be added as not all powers have been covered there.
Before I continue with powers and their use, it's time to introduce another concept I've got running through my head...
The Map
A very simple 3x3 grid can be used as a map for this game. On paper, I've got something that looks like:
The Inn, Tea House, Barracks, Temple and Palace are all buildings and therefore indoors. Everywhere else is outside in the open. The importance of this will be apparent below.
Each day, all Lords gather at the Palace. Each night, after voting, each Lord leaves the palace to take up a place in the Imperial City. They choose their location privately (via PM) at the same time they're privately indicating what covert actions they're going to take that night.
The Palace, Barracks and Temple are special locations and cannot be chosen as their place to stay overnight, except in certain conditions.
Attack, Defend and Ambush... and why the Map matters
Samurai and Black Ninja can be told to Attack a square on the Map. By default, they will attempt to kill everyone they find there except their own Lord. However, each Lord can privately declare a Truce with any other Lords, in essence sparing them if they are found in that square.
Samurai can also be told to Defend. By default, they Defend the square with their Lord in. However they can be told to Defend another square and, by doing so, the Samurai will attempt prevent any Attack to any Lord in that square.
Attack and Defence are resolved simply. Each Attacker and Defender neutralise each other, essentially wiping each other out. If there are any Attackers left over after all the Defenders are neutralised, the Attackers kill any Lords remaining in that square who they do not have a Truce with. Otherwise, the Lords are saved by their valiant defenders. Defenders are neutralised at random (with some exceptions).
Black Ninja can also Ambush. This is a directed attack against a particular Lord rather than a specified square so it is more guaranteed to find its mark. However, an Ambush always fails if the marked Lord chooses to spend the night barricaded indoors. If you will, the Ambush is a sort of "homing attack" that won't always work but otherwise works just the same as an Attack.
When Samurai are neutralised they are dead and lost from the game.
When Black Ninja are neutralised it is only for one night; they are powered by evil sorcery and other black magicks that allow them to come back to life to do their evil master's bidding the following night.
When a Lord is killed, his Samurai will discover his death in the morning and commit seppuku (ritual suicide) in shame, effectively removing themselves from the game. His other retainers (e.g. Red Ninja, Sorcerer) will also be removed from the game.
Red Ninja work the same as Samurai except that they are only revealed if all other Defenders are killed and then they act as a Defender just as normal. Red Ninja cannot Attack or Ambush and if they are neutralised they are killed out of the game just like Samurai. Red Ninja will default to Defending their own Lord.
Special Pieces and First Player Deaths
There are some special Samurai pieces that are initially outside player control. The Palace always has the elite Palace Guard and the Temple always has Warrior Monks (Sohei).
The Palace Guard comes under the control Shogun when he is elected and invested and act like any other Samurai unit, including being lost from the game if they are neutralised.
The Warrior Monks automatically Defend the elected Shogun while he spends the night in the Temple; they are effectively a "free" Samurai unit for that night but unlike other Samurai they will effectively "regenerate" (due to their massive Zen Buddhist powers or something) to protect future elected Shoguns should that occur. They are never under player control.
Additionally, the first two players to be killed will be able to take control of a detachment of the City Watch. They act like Samurai but can only Defend a specified square. Additionally, if Defenders are to be neutralised then the City Watch will be neutralised first, before any Samurai. Those players can continue to speak as Commanders of the City Watch in the Palace during the day but they no longer have any vote and if their City Watch units are wiped out they are assumed to take their own lives in shame and then be completely out of the game.
Incidentally, if one of those players was actually one of the evil Lords then there's nothing to stop him sending the City Watch to useless places (e.g. the Temple when there's no Shogun there) but if their City Watch detachment are killed then that player still leaves the game (maybe they had to go into hiding or something).
Other Special Circumstances
When a Shogun is elected, he must spend the night in the Temple. This clearly puts him at more severe risk but other players are welcome to dispatch their resources to Defend (or Attack) the Temple if they choose.
Once a Shogun is elected and invested, he is allowed to choose to be in the Palace overnight. However, other players can still not choose the Palace for their overnight stay.
If Black Ninja are told to Attack a building and it is not occupied (i.e. no Defenders and no Lords) then they will burn the building to the ground instead. However, the Temple, the Palace and the Barracks are considered to be always occupied and cannot be raised in this fashion. Once a building is burnt down, it cannot be chosen as a location to stay overnight. Samurai never engage in arson.
If Black Ninja attack a square Defended by both good and evil Samurai, the evil Samurai will not actually count towards the defence of the square, thus artificially swelling the numbers of defenders. It is assumed the evil Samurai have been briefed to get out of the way and let the Black Ninja do their jobs.
Information Gleaned
The Spy Master is given a square to watch each night. He will report on which Lords were present, how many Samurai with what livery (i.e. which Lord they were from) and how many Black Ninja attacked if any. He will only report in the morning so if his Lord is killed overnight his information will never be known.
The Sorcerer is given a square to watch each night. He will report on each Lord in that square as to whether they are good or evil. He will only report in the morning so if his Lord is killed overnight his information will never be known.
Each Lord knows which other Lords were in his square overnight. He also knows which Samurai were in his square overnight and whether they were defending or attacking. He will also clearly know if Black Ninja attack. The player will only receive this information if his Lord lives out the night.
The evil Lords know who their peers are. The good Lords don't know each other, however.
Problems and Benefits
This is somewhat more complex than the Mafia/Werewolf design but should still be playable in the same sort of way, albeit with more orders from more players for the referee to manage.
It is possible that this is too complex, of course...
Each player has more he can do in the game, including attacking and defending as he wishes each night. To counter-act the larger number of actions taking place, the map means that there's a chance such actions do not actually "connect" with their intended targets.
There's also a chance for no deaths to occur for multiple nights or a massive number of deaths to occur in one night.
There's no lynching in this variant, but each Lord can try to take matters into their own hands. However, as there's a straight 1 for 1 unit elimination, attacking only tends to benefit the evil Lords unless the good Lords know something critical.
It's probably essential that the good Lords prevent an evil Lord from becoming Shogun. The Shogun gets the "lynch" power each evening, if he chooses. Similarly, I suspect the evil Lords really don't want a good Lord becoming Shogun... I expect gridlock about this matter for a while, until the deaths start coming.
The evil Lords will be providing the carnage earlier in the game with Black Ninja strikes. Later, the carnage might come from all quarters.
With the option to burn down buildings, good Lords might choose to defend the Tea House and Inn, but this might expose them to attack directly. Without the buildings, the Lords expose themselves to Ambush attacks, which probably become the staple of the evil Lords from then on.
The length of the game is likely to be quite variable but with the option to burn down the public buildings I'm hoping that the evil Lords should be able to tighten a noose around the good Lords over time, necessarily bringing about the end of the game on their timescales.
There is a risk the game will be over too quickly after setting itself up to run for around a week. I'm hoping that the Samurai "shields" and ability to barricade in and also the addition of the City Guard for the first players out will help mitigate this.
I believe the game will revolve around individual gathering of information, formation of ad-hoc alliances (let's get together and protect each other) and watching for oddities in the deployment of each others pieces.
The day will probably play in a mixture of open declarations and discussion and behind the scenes bartering for assistance. The night is pure action, to be revealed in the morning.
How Can You Help?
That's one long post. If you could read through and apply your brains to figuring out serious issues before running it as a game then I'd appreciate it.
Or, of course, you can just say that you'd love to play...
--RS[/mod]I'm working on an alternate design to the Mafia/Werewolf games we've been playing but I'd like some thoughts and feedback on some of the ideas I've been working on.
First, the basic game design doesn't appeal to my design ethics in two specific ways:
- I believe that a player should be able to play a game for as long as possible. Mafia/Werewolf's design is such that one or more players can be killed out before they really get to play the meat of the game.
- I believe that players should all have an equal crack at being "special" within the game's frame of reference. Mafia/Werewolf assigns special powers to only a small number of players.
Sure, a game that kills people out is probably going to have an attrition to it and some sort of death penalty does help keep the game lively and pressured. However, being killed on day 0 or day 1 of the game can feel quite crap and I'd like to reduce that negative aspect.
So, bring on The Ninja Game (TNG), my take on the Mafia/Werewolf base game but with a number of differences and extensions.
Basic Premise
The players are all Samurai Lords (Diaymo). However, some of them are evil.
The Emperor and his heirs have been assassinated by ninja and war is now brewing with the neighbouring country who are known to be a safe haven to evil ninja. The Lords have gathered in the Imperial City to elect a Shogun to take control of the Imperial Army and lead them to victory, as the Army will only answer to a duly elected authority in the absence of the Emperor himself.
Every day, the Lords meet at the Imperial Palace to debate who should be made Shogun.
Every evening, the Lords vote as to who will be the Shogun. They can vote that no one should yet be elected and they retain that option every night. If there is a tie in voting, no one is elected Shogun that night.
When someone is elected they must spend a night in the Temple to cleanse themselves and prepare for their investiture on the following morning.
If a Shogun is elected and successfully invested (assuming he's not murdered overnight), each evening he can decide to order the Imperial Army to round up and execute one of the other Lords.
The good Lords win when the evil Lords are wiped out.
The evil Lords win when the good Lords are wiped out or when it becomes obvious that the good Lords can no longer defeat the evil ones (e.g. one good Lord left and the Shogun is evil).
Powers - Generically
Ultimately, there's a short list of powers that really exist in these games, that I've assessed so far:
- Talk
- Vote
- Attack
- Ambush
- Defend, either self or others
- Spy
- Divine
- Cloak, either self or others
- Build / Recruit
The first two may seem almost obvious, but those "powers" are the ones lost when a player is killed out of the game. Knowing there's two means they could potentially be stripped or provided in different ways.
Attack and Defend speak for themselves, though I'll come back them both as regards TNG as I have a different take on them. In essence, though Defend is the counter to Attack.
Ambush is a variant of Attack. I'll come back to that below.
The difference between Spy and Divine is that the former is to see what happens, the second is to discover allegiance. I'm not totally sold on them being separate but I'd considered they might be. Cloak would then be the counter to Spy and/or Divine.
Build / Recruit is something these games don't apparently contain at the moment. I'll discuss more below.
Some of these powers are overt and some covert and some might be both at different times. Green powers are overt and are always played in the day. Red powers are covert and are always played at night. Orange powers might be either or both simultaneously, depending on various factors discussed below.
Powers - Specifically
For TNG, my approach is to provide players with multiple "playing pieces" that provide themselves with different powers.
Each player, of course, has their Lord, who can Talk and Vote.
Each Lord has their Samurai Bodyguards, who can Attack and Defend.
Each Lord may also have one additional "piece" to bring to bear.
The evil Lords have their Black Ninja, who can also Attack or Ambush.
Some Lords might also have one of the following:
- Red Ninja, who can Defend.
- Sorcerer, who can Divine.
- Spy Master, who can, uh, Spy.
- General, who can Recruit.
Not all these need actually be included in the game and others could be added as not all powers have been covered there.
Before I continue with powers and their use, it's time to introduce another concept I've got running through my head...
The Map
A very simple 3x3 grid can be used as a map for this game. On paper, I've got something that looks like:
Code:
Inn | Harbour | Barracks
---------+---------+------------
Market | Palace | Streets
---------+---------+------------
Temple | Gardens | Tea HouseThe Inn, Tea House, Barracks, Temple and Palace are all buildings and therefore indoors. Everywhere else is outside in the open. The importance of this will be apparent below.
Each day, all Lords gather at the Palace. Each night, after voting, each Lord leaves the palace to take up a place in the Imperial City. They choose their location privately (via PM) at the same time they're privately indicating what covert actions they're going to take that night.
The Palace, Barracks and Temple are special locations and cannot be chosen as their place to stay overnight, except in certain conditions.
Attack, Defend and Ambush... and why the Map matters
Samurai and Black Ninja can be told to Attack a square on the Map. By default, they will attempt to kill everyone they find there except their own Lord. However, each Lord can privately declare a Truce with any other Lords, in essence sparing them if they are found in that square.
Samurai can also be told to Defend. By default, they Defend the square with their Lord in. However they can be told to Defend another square and, by doing so, the Samurai will attempt prevent any Attack to any Lord in that square.
Attack and Defence are resolved simply. Each Attacker and Defender neutralise each other, essentially wiping each other out. If there are any Attackers left over after all the Defenders are neutralised, the Attackers kill any Lords remaining in that square who they do not have a Truce with. Otherwise, the Lords are saved by their valiant defenders. Defenders are neutralised at random (with some exceptions).
Black Ninja can also Ambush. This is a directed attack against a particular Lord rather than a specified square so it is more guaranteed to find its mark. However, an Ambush always fails if the marked Lord chooses to spend the night barricaded indoors. If you will, the Ambush is a sort of "homing attack" that won't always work but otherwise works just the same as an Attack.
When Samurai are neutralised they are dead and lost from the game.
When Black Ninja are neutralised it is only for one night; they are powered by evil sorcery and other black magicks that allow them to come back to life to do their evil master's bidding the following night.
When a Lord is killed, his Samurai will discover his death in the morning and commit seppuku (ritual suicide) in shame, effectively removing themselves from the game. His other retainers (e.g. Red Ninja, Sorcerer) will also be removed from the game.
Red Ninja work the same as Samurai except that they are only revealed if all other Defenders are killed and then they act as a Defender just as normal. Red Ninja cannot Attack or Ambush and if they are neutralised they are killed out of the game just like Samurai. Red Ninja will default to Defending their own Lord.
Special Pieces and First Player Deaths
There are some special Samurai pieces that are initially outside player control. The Palace always has the elite Palace Guard and the Temple always has Warrior Monks (Sohei).
The Palace Guard comes under the control Shogun when he is elected and invested and act like any other Samurai unit, including being lost from the game if they are neutralised.
The Warrior Monks automatically Defend the elected Shogun while he spends the night in the Temple; they are effectively a "free" Samurai unit for that night but unlike other Samurai they will effectively "regenerate" (due to their massive Zen Buddhist powers or something) to protect future elected Shoguns should that occur. They are never under player control.
Additionally, the first two players to be killed will be able to take control of a detachment of the City Watch. They act like Samurai but can only Defend a specified square. Additionally, if Defenders are to be neutralised then the City Watch will be neutralised first, before any Samurai. Those players can continue to speak as Commanders of the City Watch in the Palace during the day but they no longer have any vote and if their City Watch units are wiped out they are assumed to take their own lives in shame and then be completely out of the game.
Incidentally, if one of those players was actually one of the evil Lords then there's nothing to stop him sending the City Watch to useless places (e.g. the Temple when there's no Shogun there) but if their City Watch detachment are killed then that player still leaves the game (maybe they had to go into hiding or something).
Other Special Circumstances
When a Shogun is elected, he must spend the night in the Temple. This clearly puts him at more severe risk but other players are welcome to dispatch their resources to Defend (or Attack) the Temple if they choose.
Once a Shogun is elected and invested, he is allowed to choose to be in the Palace overnight. However, other players can still not choose the Palace for their overnight stay.
If Black Ninja are told to Attack a building and it is not occupied (i.e. no Defenders and no Lords) then they will burn the building to the ground instead. However, the Temple, the Palace and the Barracks are considered to be always occupied and cannot be raised in this fashion. Once a building is burnt down, it cannot be chosen as a location to stay overnight. Samurai never engage in arson.
If Black Ninja attack a square Defended by both good and evil Samurai, the evil Samurai will not actually count towards the defence of the square, thus artificially swelling the numbers of defenders. It is assumed the evil Samurai have been briefed to get out of the way and let the Black Ninja do their jobs.
Information Gleaned
The Spy Master is given a square to watch each night. He will report on which Lords were present, how many Samurai with what livery (i.e. which Lord they were from) and how many Black Ninja attacked if any. He will only report in the morning so if his Lord is killed overnight his information will never be known.
The Sorcerer is given a square to watch each night. He will report on each Lord in that square as to whether they are good or evil. He will only report in the morning so if his Lord is killed overnight his information will never be known.
Each Lord knows which other Lords were in his square overnight. He also knows which Samurai were in his square overnight and whether they were defending or attacking. He will also clearly know if Black Ninja attack. The player will only receive this information if his Lord lives out the night.
The evil Lords know who their peers are. The good Lords don't know each other, however.
Problems and Benefits
This is somewhat more complex than the Mafia/Werewolf design but should still be playable in the same sort of way, albeit with more orders from more players for the referee to manage.
It is possible that this is too complex, of course...
Each player has more he can do in the game, including attacking and defending as he wishes each night. To counter-act the larger number of actions taking place, the map means that there's a chance such actions do not actually "connect" with their intended targets.
There's also a chance for no deaths to occur for multiple nights or a massive number of deaths to occur in one night.
There's no lynching in this variant, but each Lord can try to take matters into their own hands. However, as there's a straight 1 for 1 unit elimination, attacking only tends to benefit the evil Lords unless the good Lords know something critical.
It's probably essential that the good Lords prevent an evil Lord from becoming Shogun. The Shogun gets the "lynch" power each evening, if he chooses. Similarly, I suspect the evil Lords really don't want a good Lord becoming Shogun... I expect gridlock about this matter for a while, until the deaths start coming.
The evil Lords will be providing the carnage earlier in the game with Black Ninja strikes. Later, the carnage might come from all quarters.
With the option to burn down buildings, good Lords might choose to defend the Tea House and Inn, but this might expose them to attack directly. Without the buildings, the Lords expose themselves to Ambush attacks, which probably become the staple of the evil Lords from then on.
The length of the game is likely to be quite variable but with the option to burn down the public buildings I'm hoping that the evil Lords should be able to tighten a noose around the good Lords over time, necessarily bringing about the end of the game on their timescales.
There is a risk the game will be over too quickly after setting itself up to run for around a week. I'm hoping that the Samurai "shields" and ability to barricade in and also the addition of the City Guard for the first players out will help mitigate this.
I believe the game will revolve around individual gathering of information, formation of ad-hoc alliances (let's get together and protect each other) and watching for oddities in the deployment of each others pieces.
The day will probably play in a mixture of open declarations and discussion and behind the scenes bartering for assistance. The night is pure action, to be revealed in the morning.
How Can You Help?
That's one long post. If you could read through and apply your brains to figuring out serious issues before running it as a game then I'd appreciate it.
Or, of course, you can just say that you'd love to play...
