The Passing Game & Passing Skills

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Passing is a play of three parts:

  1. Check for interceptions
  2. Attempt to pass
  3. Attempt to catch

This means there's plenty of ways for passing to go wrong...

Passing is an agility test. Passing is also easier at close range and harder at long range. Note that a hand-off is different to passing in that it cannot be intercepted and only a catch roll is made (the pass is always assumed to be successful).

Ignoring interceptions for the moment, which are based on the other team's players (and is an agility skill check again, at -2)...


The Pass:

As mentioned, passing is based on agility using the table below.

Code:
AG	1	2	3	4	5	6
D6	6+	5+	4+	3+	2+	1+

So, for an unskilled AG3 player (the average) you get a 50% chance of successfully passing at middling range in fair conditions.

This is, of course, modified by range:

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Mod.	+1	0	-1	-2

Thus a quick pass has a 67% of succeeding, while a long bomb is only at 17%, given your average player.

It's worth noting that regardless of a player's AG or other modifiers, if the dice result is ever 1 they always fumble the pass; thus there are no automatic passes. Similarly, if the dice result is ever modified to 1 or less then a fumble occurs.

Each opponent's tackle zone has a -1 effect to the pass roll.


The Catch:

A catch roll is made anytime a ball lands in the square of a player. If it was actually passed to them successfully (rather than landing on them by chance) they get a bonus (+1) to attempt to catch.

Again, catching uses the same agility chart as passing, so for the average AG3 player they're on a 50% chance of success at catching, or 67% chance for an accurate pass.

Just like passing, the receiver receives -1 to the roll for every opponent tackle zone they're in.

Range does not affect a player's ability to catch.


Interception:

Interceptions are rolled before the pass. Seems weird, but it makes for a better play experience. Only one interception attempt can be made per pass and it's an agility check at -2, with an additional -1 for every opponent tackle zone affecting the interceptor.

Thus, for your average AG3 player, they have a 17% chance of making an interception, which is the lowest interception chance; even an otherwise impossible interception can be done on a roll of 6 (i.e. 17%).


Combining the Pass and Catch, on Average:

So, for a moment, let's assume the thrower and receiver are both average, unskilled players (AG3), and let's assume they're unmarked and have nobody who could make an interception, and that we're dealing with a short (+0) pass.

50% chance of pass and, assuming success on the pass, 67% chance of catching. That totals to a 33% chance of succeeding the chain. Not great odds.

In fact, over range, this is what that says:

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	44%	33%	22%	11%

That tells you that the average player, under best conditions, doesn't get 50:50 odds on making even a quick pass!

So how do you up the odds?


Passing Skills:

Pass

Pass allows a re-roll on a failed pass. Note that this doesn't affect interceptions at all, but does affect fumbles. How does this help the average player with this skill, assuming the average receiver?

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	59%	50%	37%	20%

Accurate

Adds 1 to the pass roll, making it easier. Again, for average players on both ends of the pass, but with the thrower having Accurate:

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	56%	44%	33%	22%

Just about, Pass is a more useful first skill for a thrower as it is more effective at ranges you'd seriously consider throwing at.

Strong Arm

Works like Accurate, except only at ranges longer than quick. Hence, +1 to a pass roll for short, long and bomb passes. Again, the average situation:

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	44%	44%	33%	22%

Hail Mary Pass

This is a bit of a crazy-ass skill for people who like wild results. Before making a pass, roll a D6 and a 1 is a fumble. Otherwise, the pass can be made to any square on the pitch. However, it is never accurate and always misses (bounces around) though this may still result in it bouncing back into the target square if you're really lucky (where it can be caught). It also can't be intercepted, which is novel.

Nerves of Steel

Simple: the thrower ignores opponent tackle zones for the purposes of throwing. Doesn't prevent an interception but is good for last minute dumps.

Dump-Off

Speaking of which, dump-off is a way of making an emergency quick pass when the thrower has a block thrown at them. They only get to do this once per turn but it works like any other (quick) pass.

Safe Throw

This reduces the chances of being intercepted. If the pass is intercepted, the thrower makes a straight agility test (4+ for AG3) and if that succeeds then the interception actually fails.

Stunty

Not actually a passing skill but a detriment to passing: -1 to pass rolls.


Catching Skills:

Catch

Very much like Pass, Catch allows the receiver to re-roll a failed catch, bumping chances to catch up to 89% for an accurate throw. This can have the benefit of improving catches to the following table, assuming the average thrower:

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	59%	44%	30%	15%

Incidentally, that means that it's more important to have a thrower with Pass than it is to have a receiver with Catch for a good pass...

However, Catch also allows the receiver to re-roll both failed hand-offs and interceptions.

Diving Catch

Doesn't affect the odds of catching, just increases the area the receiver can attempt to catch to the squares around them. Note: two players using this on the same catch cancel each other out, so neither can use the skill.

Nerves of Steel

Affects receivers just like throwers; they ignore opponent tackle zones for the purposes of making a catch.


Putting it all together:

So, let's take a Human team with a Thrower (AG3, Pass) and a Catcher (AG3, Catch) on a throw with no chance of interception when neither is being marked.

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	79%	67%	49%	27%

Far from perfect, but not terrible odds either.

Good first skill for the thrower? Accurate:

Code:
Range	Quick	Short	Long	Bomb
Chance	86%	79%	67%	49%

Of course, those damnable Elves with AG4 effectively "start" with Accurate. In other words, Accurate is AG+1 just for throwing.


Questions?


[edit]Lots of mistaken team re-roll tables removed as you can't re-roll a re-roll. Thanks Huung.[/edit]
[edit]Added Strong Arm as a passing skill.[/edit]
[edit]Added note to Interception about 6 always intercepting.[/edit]
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
You can't ever reroll a reroll, so if you've used the pass skill, you then can't use a team reroll if you fail the second throw given by your pass skill. Don't know if it was just me, but that didn't seem totally clear.

The other "passing" skill which was missed out is Strong Arm. Although it comes under strength (so is a doubles skill for any standard thrower) it reduces the band by 1 for the pass; it makes a short pass a quick pass etc. This could also be seen as adding a further +1 to the pass roll, so has the same effect as the Accuracy skill. Furthermore, these two skills do stack.

I <3 agi 5 WElf throwers with Strong Arm, Accuracy and NoS :p

Oooh, also, on interceptions - as with a 1 being a critical fail on everything, a 6 is a critical success. Therefore, even when marked, a 6 on an intercept roll will be successful.
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
Does that apply for otherwise impossible passes (assuming they're in range)?

Depends what you mean by 'impossible'. If they're in range, they're still possible passes, just unlikely? :S

Unless you mean the kind of passes where you're so heavily marked and at distance that you don't even get the little tooltip telling you what you need to roll? In which case, yes, a 6 is still a critical success.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Catch also lets you reroll a failed interception. Pass block is a useful late skill which allows your player to move 3 squares before rolling for the interception, potentially putting players in line for an interception, or marking up receivers.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Unless you mean the kind of passes where you're so heavily marked and at distance that you don't even get the little tooltip telling you what you need to roll? In which case, yes, a 6 is still a critical success.

Incidentally, how do you get this tool tip?
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
Incidentally, how do you get this tool tip?

It's not exactly a tooltip I suppose, but I don't know what else to call it. Whenever you go to make a throw, you get the required roll shown to you when you hover over the receiver. Once you click to throw, you then get the catch roll needed shown. Same as when you go to pick up the ball when it's on the floor, and you get the roll needed displayed on the square with the ball in it.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I knew that, was just wondering if there was one I DIDN'T know about for handoffs etc. There's a lot cyanide could do to improve their game.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I knew that, was just wondering if there was one I DIDN'T know about for handoffs etc. There's a lot cyanide could do to improve their game.

Not like I don't have plenty of other things to be doing, but it did strike me that I could rewrite their game in C# (and possibly ASP.NET), minus the 3D, without too much trouble. Then it could also use LRB6 or whatever rule variant we fancied. And it'd have documentation.

I'm reasonably serious about the idea as it would give me a set of heavy structure to work against and so I could just focus on an electronic board implementation.

But I absolutely can't start until October/November.
 

waterproofbob

Junior Administrator
I'm not sure what this passing is that you referring to but to bobrek it appears to be an entirely unnatural abomination.

Surely you would prefer to have a sturdy dwarf runner trotting valiantly passed unconscious players. This passing malarkey seems an ill conceived elvish notion to me.

OOC: nice post. Learnt quite a bit about a facet of the game I've never used before.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Not like I don't have plenty of other things to be doing, but it did strike me that I could rewrite their game in C# (and possibly ASP.NET), minus the 3D, without too much trouble. Then it could also use LRB6 or whatever rule variant we fancied. And it'd have documentation.

I'm reasonably serious about the idea as it would give me a set of heavy structure to work against and so I could just focus on an electronic board implementation.

But I absolutely can't start until October/November.

That's very cool, but beware of running into GW's copywrite department. They've done their best to shut down the BOTOCS java client. I'm pretty sure that if they bothered to support their own game systems, you know, people wouldn't have to play across the internet all the time...but yeah, GW suck.
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
That's very cool, but beware of running into GW's copywrite department. They've done their best to shut down the BOTOCS java client. I'm pretty sure that if they bothered to support their own game systems, you know, people wouldn't have to play across the internet all the time...but yeah, GW suck.

I would guess that as long as the game isn't published in any way, it can't void copyright laws in a noticable way. Still, wasn't the Blood Bowl game we know today created out of some GW lawsuit? Something about the developers making something which was basically a clone of BB, only to get shot down, and told to remake it properly under GW license in order to be let off?
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
beware of running into GW's copywrite department

Yeah, I saw a big ruckus about that over at BoardGameGeek. I'd not plan on making a released game for it, though, and it's the engine behind it that I'm actually interested in. Blood Bowl would just be a well rounded ruleset to build from.
 

Ghostwolf67

Well-Known Member
I love the passing game. There are however lots of teams that cant do it. Or rather it would be ill-advised to attempt it as a serious tactic unless you want to burn through your re-rolls/turnover loads.

1. The Pass-Happy Races.
At AG 4 the poncy wood elves make it look effortless to place a ball in orbit and then into the hands of anyone. The dark elves are similar but would be alot better at it if they started with any passing skills at all other than dump off which relies on you getting your ass kicked to work.

2. The Make-Do Passers. The skaven, humans and orks all start with players with passing skills as standard in the form of their throwers. They may not have the range of the elves to throw it but the starting skills make throwing a viable option. And while the orks may not have designated catchers that is the job of goblins.

3. The Skill Deficient. Chaos, Lizardmen, Goblins have alot (or most) of AG 3 players but start with no throwing skills as standard on any player. Given some of the afformentioned skills you can hobble your way through the passing game but will probably have to keep the frequency down.

4. The Dont Try It. Ever You could (in theory of course) get two runners on a dwarf team, one to throw, one to catch. That could (in theory mind you) work as a resemblance of a passing game.
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
4. The Dont Try It. Ever You could (in theory of course) get two runners on a dwarf team, one to throw, one to catch. That could (in theory mind you) work as a resemblance of a passing game.

Make a custom dwarf team of 2k points for a friendly - max out dwarfs with catching and throwing skills. It's pretty hilarious to watch them launch bombs most of the way down the pitch, then dodge about at high speeds to score TDs

It's possible, but I wouldn't want to work my way to 2k rating like that :p
 

waterproofbob

Junior Administrator
Make a custom dwarf team of 2k points for a friendly - max out dwarfs with catching and throwing skills. It's pretty hilarious to watch them launch bombs most of the way down the pitch, then dodge about at high speeds to score TDs

It's possible, but I wouldn't want to work my way to 2k rating like that :p

I was seriously considering levelling my runners in this vein just for the LOLs of it then decided against it as getting them to that level would be tricky
 
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