[UK / EU] Telecommunications Data Retention

[DeZmond]

Right then, it's that time of year again. I know I go on about this issue on a semi-regular basis, but it's an important one. Also, on a semi-regular basis something comes up and reminds me about how important an issue it is.

Okay then, source #1, which kick-started my thinking: Bill Thompson's weekly technology column.
This week, he debates MPs being excluded from data snooping laws. An issue in itself, but once again we are reminded of how much data is kept on us and can be accessed by government agencies.

This leads neatly onto source #2, as linked by the same page; Wikipedia's Data Retention page.
When broken down how much information is maintained, it becomes a bit scary... and though you'll be happy your porn logs are gone after 4 days it could soon be held a lot longer... up to 2 years, in fact.

Okay, so hopefully that's got you thinking. Now, my own thoughts on the government are no secret and indeed well known to the older members of THN, but I fail to see how such wide-ranging measures are helpful.

Allow me, if you will, to counter the first argument that I'm sure will come up, namely: "You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide."

While this may be true to an extent, think about the other data that's held. Your online banking transactions... credit card payments, purchases from amazon, and pretty much everything you do online. And I'm sorry, but whatever way you paint it, no-one should be able to access that information. How many of us would honestly feel comfortable knowing this type of data could be accessed?

The next point of argument I can foresee is: "That's all very well, but these powers would be used very sparingly."

Again, I can see this point, however again only to a limited extent. I would argue with anyone choosing to defend a government wishing to remove juries from certain inquests, thereby tampering with a legal system that has worked for hundreds of years without drastic political intervention.

Okay, so now you've read my thoughts... let the debate commence!

 

[Ronin Storm]

"You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide."

Sure. What could I possibly have to hide? How about that I'm a white agnostic male? Sure, that's not a problem right now but laws don't just apply right now, they apply in near perpetuity. Trust your current government and civil administration? Great. Trust the one in ten years time? Oh, you don't know who that's going to be, do you, so how can you trust them?!

If we allow legislation to take our freedoms away then they're as good as gone forever (for our purposes).

"That's all very well, but these powers would be used very sparingly."

Define "sparingly". On one person in a million? One in ten thousand? One in a hundred? Decimation is quite sparing from a certain point of view.

How about a situation where, as part of some notional, radical and extreme (and hopefully fictitious) Freedom for Scotland group all Scotsmen become suspects for terrorism as a result of their accents? After all, aren't all Irishmen members of the IRA?

Of course they aren't. Just like the vast majority of the Arabian world isn't part of Al Qaeda and the same for white Americans and the KKK. Horrific acts are carried out by tiny criminal minorities. Every freedom taken away to save us from those people is a victory for those evil people, another nail in the coffin of "the free world".

We don't know where the terrorists of tomorrow will come from. Perhaps they'll all be middle-class white Englishmen with a grudge against reporters who diss computer games? If so, should we spy on all those people just in case they're terrorists? Maybe we should throw up checkpoints on the M1 to perform random spot checks? How about a little rapid torture thrown in to soften the subjects up to get them to confess their sins? Where does the protection start and the victimisation start?

I don't want safety. I want freedom. If this means staring in the face of a suicide bomber while I stand in Tesco just seconds before he blows me to hell, so be it. I'd like to think that, at that point, I'd be noble enough to throw myself onto his explosives to hopefully reduce the blast (if I'm that close). At least I get a choice, then. What choice do I get about our surveillance society? I didn't vote for any of it and, in fact, voted against it. It's not just not my choice, I chose not to have it. Fat lot of good that did.

Give me freedom or give me death, for what am I without my freedom, without my choices?

 

[Taffy]

Give me freedom or give me death, for what am I without my freedom, without my choices?

A freedom fighter

In all seriousness, it's all about balance between freedom and security. Anarchism is all about freedom, but I can't imagine an anarchistic state being a particularly safe place to live. On the other side of the coin, North Korea is all about security from the outside world. Again, not a very nice place to live.

Regarding the first issue, I can't see why MP's should be excluded from bugging.