100 Dead in Iraq for UK

[Gopha]

Obviously it is not as much as the USA but as we have less soldiers the proportion is similar, this brings back the debate of was the war in Iraq needed?
I personally believe the the war was needed, but that The US and the UK went for the wrong reasons, i woud llike to hear your opinions on this.

 

[Pubic_Warrior]

british troops dont fight everyday so we wouldnt take as many casulties, the war caused deaths bt freed iraq from that evil fuck, and supposeidly UK troops sould start pulling out of iraq in may leaving the new iraqi police and army incharge

 

[Gopha]

yer, we did have to free the iraqi considering all the nasty things he did when we didnt get rid of hussein in 1991 ,he killed thousands of Kurds with gas apparently but this was never truly authorized but the coalition troops have found mass graves sicne theyve been in Iraq, looks like afghnistan next

 

[Pestcontrol]

No idea who George Galloway is, so i'll consider myself a pacifist. There are times war is unavoidable, this isn't one of them. Casualties under the Iraqi population are way higher than that of coalition soldiers and exceed the amount under Saddam's regime. Saddam's secularism is gone, the oil being exported neglible, the democracy frail and 100% dependant on foreighn troops, Iran is filling the gap as regional power. Way to go.

If, and i say if, an attack on Iraq was justified just because of the humanitarian situation under Saddam's rule (as according to those who say it was right to go to war, only not for the reasons given), then what about all the other nations in the world where the humanitarian situation is just as bad. or worse? I name you a North Korea, Burma, Sudan, and the list doesn't stop there.

It's such an utterly hypocrit argument.

At least Gulf War 1 was honestly about the oil, even if the humanitarian effect (Saddam's retaliation on the Kurd uprising) was just as bad.

That said, i think retreating, as is advocated by some left winged political flavours, is even worse. First you mess up the place, then you leave and leave the people to their fate? Take the consequences and finish what you've started. Such a move would be just as bad as going there in the first place.

 

[Gopha]

yer, i agree, i still believe that the Iraqi people are now in a better state of mind that they are now a democracy, and well soon they are doing something about Korea, and they persoanlly just wanted to take revenge for Sep 11 but i do believe the world is now a better place!

 

[Gibsonfire]

Sorry if this is off-topic but have you noticed how we never used to have these debates until resently? I think its a good thing, we have to use our head lol

 

[Nanor]

A song was released a while back, I remember a line "I'll fight anywhere to lubricate the US of A".

I believe a reason to go in was to get rid of Saddam Hussein, main reason I think is for oil. They're not going to take it outright. They're going to plant someone in the Iraqi Parliament who will sell the oil to the USA for a cheap price.

 

[DeZmond]

An interesting topic, to be sure.

[mod]However, Gopha, as a moderator I'd just like to say that when creating polls, it helps to cover as many angles on an issue as possible. For example, I don't fit into any of the categories you've allowed people to vote for, or particularly wish to stick to those you've put there. My concern is over the option:

No im a fan of George Galloway, and the war was not neccesary

This particular option could offend some people, who are against the war but do not condone the actions of the esteemed Mr Galloway. To group this range of opinions in this way is not the best way to ensure other people are happy.
If you meant this as a light-hearted comment, then fair enough, but if this is the case perhaps you could just make sure people know this? Thanks.
[/mod]

Okay, back on topic...

No, I'm against the war for many reasons, not least of which is the fact our government attempted to conceal information from the public which was crucial in allowing us to form opinions on the war in Iraq. Also I perceive the Bush/Blair alliance as too trigger-happy in their pursuit of what they term 'deviants'.

 

[T-Bone]

[mod]Sorry Dezmond but your right. I fall under the category of people who believe the war in Iraq was a glorified farce but I also hate George Galloway with a passion. I've met him in real life and he's an arrogant, pompus twit with his head so far up his own arse that he has another copy of his head coming out of his mouth. Also what kind of local MP would enter a reality TV show for, was it seven weeks? Thus leaving your local constituancy to flounder.

In short I have edited the poll as such.[/mod]

 

[MoTo^]

first of all do you know the Iraqi death toll? its estimated that its around 30,000 people dead. now these include civilians, normal people like you and me, women, children, men going about their works, and theyve died because of this war. based on this i dont personally see why the death of 100 military personnel causes such an uproar in the media. im not saying they deserved to die or their deaths dont mean anything, not at all, what i am saying tho is that these guys were soldiers, they knew the second they entered the war what the risks are and so should their family. but what of the iraqis? and 30,000? they were just trying to live as best as they could and this happens, also remember this figure doesnt include the thousands left homeless and/or wounded and injured.

secondly:

yer, i agree, i still believe that the Iraqi people are now in a better state of mind that they are now a democracy...

what exactly is this belief based on? media? have you ever seen the iraqi side of things? imagine living in a country where you fear you may die from a car bomb if you leave your house, and one that probably has no economical stability at the moment, with most of its oil going into american hands with the military of other countries occupying your home land. not mentioning all those left homeless, injured, without a job, without a family etc etc.
does that sound like theyre in a better state of mind?

 

[Wraith]

based on this i dont personally see why the death of 100 military personnel causes such an uproar in the media.

It's because they were British soldiers, and the British media loves to over-sensationalise the cost to the British as though we are the only nation that matters. Note: This is my interpretation of the British media's attitude, it's not my personal opinion.

If there were only 5 dead British soldiers and 300,000,000,000 (for example) dead Americans / Iraqi's / [insert other nationalty here], the media would still generate the same fuss about the British soldiers as they are now, while still mostly ignoring the other casualties.

It's an unfortunate attitude, but ultimately, it's an attitude that sells newspapers, which is the whole point as far as the papers are concerned. Don't forget that editors aren't concerned with reporting news they're concerned with increasing their profits. (I realise this is probably a generalisation but it's what I believe). The only way to change this attitude would be a mass boycott of those media outlets that promote such thinking (never going to happen). Otherwise, we'll just have to live with it and learn to take all news with "a pinch of salt".

Wraith

 

[Gibsonfire]

first of all do you know the Iraqi death toll? its estimated that its around 30,000 people dead. now these include civilians, normal people like you and me, women, children, men going about their works, and theyve died because of this war. based on this i dont personally see why the death of 100 military personnel causes such an uproar in the media. im not saying they deserved to die or their deaths dont mean anything, not at all, what i am saying tho is that these guys were soldiers, they knew the second they entered the war what the risks are and so should their family. but what of the iraqis? and 30,000? they were just trying to live as best as they could and this happens, also remember this figure doesnt include the thousands left homeless and/or wounded and injured.

secondly:



what exactly is this belief based on? media? have you ever seen the iraqi side of things? imagine living in a country where you fear you may die from a car bomb if you leave your house, and one that probably has no economical stability at the moment, with most of its oil going into american hands with the military of other countries occupying your home land. not mentioning all those left homeless, injured, without a job, without a family etc etc.
does that sound like theyre in a better state of mind?

Yeah I agree, the iraqi people are not much better off now then they were under Saddam Hussiens Regime.

There is also the fact that there is now a big fear that Iraq could fall into civil war between the Sheits and Sunnies which could lead to a Islamic revolution as Iran had 20 years ago.

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

what i am saying tho is that these guys were soldiers, they knew the second they entered the war what the risks are and so should their family.

Hang on a minute. I remember saying that ages ago in another thread about the war, and you disagreed with me on that point. Turncoat.

 

[MoTo^]

i really dont remember saying that tetsuo, but even if i did opinions change

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

It makes no difference!

Turncoat! *poke* Turncoat! *poke poke* Spineless jelly monster *poke* spineless turncoat jelly monster with sissy flowers *poke*

 

[Taffy]

If, and i say if, an attack on Iraq was justified just because of the humanitarian situation under Saddam's rule (as according to those who say it was right to go to war, only not for the reasons given), then what about all the other nations in the world where the humanitarian situation is just as bad. or worse? I name you a North Korea, Burma, Sudan, and the list doesn't stop there.

I think you would be crazy to invade North Korea, what with the fact that we don't really know what sort of fire power they have. I'd be a bit worried if I was in South Korea, what with your next door neighbour pointing a thermo-nuclear weapon through your letter box.

As for the other countries, well I don't know what Tony Blair is thinkingt, but it is obvious that George Bush wanted to invade Iraq for OIL. Shame that he couldn't even spell honesty really. Do I agree with the War in Iraq? Yes, but I think we've stayed in ther too long, we didn't go with a plan as to what to do with the country post-war and I don't see why they couldn't just say 'look, we are invading Iraq because Saddam Hussein is an arsehole and because there is a nice amount of oil underneath it.' As it is, the politicians just ended up cocking the whole bloody thing up and embarassing their spy agencies hugely.

[mod]Fixed quote.[/mod]

 

[Pubic_Warrior]

i think we should invade every county going so then there will be lots of games based on it

serious note: we didnt just invade iraq because of WMDs or just because saddam is a fucking wanker, it was both, if North Korea, Burma, Sudan etc threated to use WMDs then im sure British soliders would be mobilised and ready for war

 

[MoTo^]

serious note: we didnt just invade iraq because of WMDs or just because saddam is a fucking wanker, it was both, if North Korea, Burma, Sudan etc threated to use WMDs then im sure British soliders would be mobilised and ready for war

Saddam never threatened to use any WMDs, all he did was deny their existence which has come to be true.

Also regarding Taffy's comment about we've stayed in Iraq for too long, you cant invade a country and then just leave someone else to clean up the mess for you, which is exactly what all these soldiers out there are dying for today.

 

[Taffy]

Saddam never threatened to use any WMDs, all he did was deny their existence which has come to be true.

Also regarding Taffy's comment about we've stayed in Iraq for too long, you cant invade a country and then just leave someone else to clean up the mess for you, which is exactly what all these soldiers out there are dying for today.

Absolutely, but we should be out by now. We (as in His Tonyness) didn't plan ahead, just went in there guns a'blazin. Thats why Iraq is in such a mess now.

 

[Pubic_Warrior]

how can you call iraq a mess we did our part and troops are getting pulled out tony himself said so, we have already begun to hand over parts of iraq