Addition to Raid Loot rules (updated 11 January)

[Angelic]

Thanks for the lenghty reply, Zoog, it's appreciated, but doesn't explain why is my suggestion not viable. Actually it would only make sense to force the loot distribution to spread evenly across the guild by promoting people that did not receive any drops to those that did. This criteria is already incorporated in the current loot distribution rules, I know, in the form of the cumulative -10 penalty and 3 piece ceiling, but what I was trying to point out is their utter uselessness. As shown by my yesterday example, -20 did not stop me from losing a roll and in turn caused very unequal distribution. If my suggestion was implemented, people would get as similar number of drops as possible, which is good. Of course, my rule would only apply if any other rule did not overrule it (whoa, many rules in that sentence!), e.g. offspec rolling etc.

See my point? I'm cool with the current rules, but I think the "-10 per item and 3 drops max" rule is simply not enough.

The +hit dps/healer dilemma is probably impossible to solve using system as simple as the ours is, so let's leave that be for now.

Cheers,
Ang

 

[Zooggy]

Ahey,

[That] doesn't explain why is my suggestion not viable.

It does, in two different ways, no less:

3) It needs to not hinder guild progression. [...] we can't afford to have people "game" the system by passing on loot that would be good for them in the hopes of later obtaining loot that would be great for them.

Any system that prioritises first-rollers inherently penalises your second loot. Any system that overdoes this will have people overly scared of rolling on items that are upgrades for them, unless the item is a truly fantastic upgrade.

4) It needs to not put unde strain on the raid leadership. [...] people can't be worried about when or whether the raid is going to be called [...].

Moreover, people would have to balance the fear of being penalised on forthcoming uber-loot with the fear of having the raid called before they even get to the uber-loot-dropping boss. So, now, you're gaming the loot system and you'll have people taking five to ten minutes just to anguish over whether they want to roll or not.

And then you'll have the ones for whom loot didn't drop starting to put pressure on the raid leaders to "move it along, already", because they want to have a crack at that next boss where that shiny new plate is going to drop.

These dynamics are very real and have been observed in a number of different social situations, including business, leisure, family obligations, and others.

[It] would only make sense to force the loot distribution to spread evenly across the guild [...].

This would certainly be nice, but in actuallity, this is really not a "goal" of the system. It quite frankly cannot ever be a goal of the system. At least, not as long as those concerns I explained above remain unaddressed.

Here's hoping I made sense.

Cheers,
J.

 

[Juba]

Having read both angelic and zoogy's post I feel both have a point.I am not sure if this is a problem inherent in cloth drops though.If so perhaps we could solve this by the simple rule of +hit cloth is dps cloth and non +hit cloth is healing cloth...so whichever it isnt is regarded as an off spec rule...maybe this is too simplistic though? I must admit because of my boredom with locks I havent really kept up with the whole spellpower/spirit/+hit changes.

Just a thought I am throwing in really

 

[thatbloke]

1) Our looting system is getting WAY too complicated. Every weekend, something happens that means someone suggests an addition to it. We need to freeze the system in place as it is now - I see no issue with it as it stands.

2) The particular case that happened on Friday was probably just an oversight by the loot master and officers. I personally would have specified that the item in question would have been for healers only, however that wasn't said and it didn't happen. These things happen, and as Angelic found out on Saturday, there will always be other drops.

3) The intention of our looting system is not to have a looting system in place at all. Ideally we would not have to have it. However for the exact reasons you posted, we require it. The idea of out looting system, while potentially complex, is to get people to look at an item when it drops and see just how much of an upgrade it is. It is also there to try and encourage you to look at other people's kit and see how much of an upgrade it is for them. In an ideal world people would look at who they felt needed the item most and pass on their opportunity to roll in favour of that person. Sometimes, that doesn't happen. In this case, it didn't. That's just tough luck, and as I stated above, there will always be other times.

4) The problem with cloth drops in general is that there are so many different classes and specs out there that can benefit from various different items that it can sometimes be difficult to definitely specify one item as "dps" and another as "healing". While it can be done, some people will always disagree.

 

[Windzarko]

The intention is already that spellpower gear with hit on is priority for DPSers, but it's not a hard and fast rule.

It's also worth noting that there's no such thing as "healer only cloth", which is a tad unfortunate for the healers; this will have to be something the raid leader and master looter decide on per raid. As Q-man said, we shouldn't add more rules for the moment, common sense should be sufficient.