Before/After Japanese Earthquake

[VibroAxe]

This just in. Japan has moved 13' closer to the states. Yes 13 feet!!!

Poor japs, drowned and closer to the yanks

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14seismic.html?_r=2&hp

 

[Angelic]

Apparently, according to BBC/Reuters the core #3 suffered an explosion of the excess hydrogen during the night, which damaged its container unit. Fairly significant turn for the worse Anyone got more info on this?

 

[Panda with issues...]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8382504/Japan-earthquake-panic-in-Tokyo-as-radiation-spreads.html

Not the best source. Terribly written.

Apparently there has been a fire at one of the spent fuel rod storage ponds, heightening radiation leakage into the atmosphere to...below levels dangerous to human health. I strongly suspect that spending a week near the nuclear plant in this state is equivalent to living in Cornwall for a while.

 

[thatbloke]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8382504/Japan-earthquake-panic-in-Tokyo-as-radiation-spreads.html

Not the best source. Terribly written.

Apparently there has been a fire at one of the spent fuel rod storage ponds, heightening radiation leakage into the atmosphere to...below levels dangerous to human health. I strongly suspect that spending a week near the nuclear plant in this state is equivalent to living in Cornwall for a while.

On the beeb this morning they are on about how "radiation is leaking into the atmosphere" from one of the reactors.

Despite having an expert on at around 7.10am who quite clearly stated that you need to be within about 100m of the reactor to actually be receiving an increased level of radiation to the point where it could cause you to become ill (and not fatally either), they still continue to neglect this fact in their reporting and instead focus on "radiation leaking into the atmosphere" and the fact that a no-fly zone has been imposed.

This coverage is really starting to piss me off.

 

[Panda with issues...]

Another, basic point is that the vast majority of the radiation that is being given out will be Alpha particles. This cannot pass through skin, and so, as long as you aren't eating nuclear waste, or perhaps more importantly, breathing in these fumes, there isn't any real danger. The area has been evacuated to prevent people breathing in a lot of fumes before the radioactive elements have decayed. Most of the radionucleiides formed from nuclear processes have half lives of days or shorter. I can understand why people (edit: IN JAPAN) are worried, but this really isn't any more dangerous than the chemical fire that burned down the electronics lab at the Soton uni a few years ago, where everyone was advised to keep windows shut. (Assuming the situation stays how it is currently).

Any worried americans trying to buy iodine tablets should curl up and die, and do us all a favour.

 

[Panda with issues...]

On the beeb this morning they are on about how "radiation is leaking into the atmosphere" from one of the reactors.

Radiation 'leaks into the atmosphere' from natural causes all the time. Cornwall is terrible for it, as it contains a lot of relatively young granites emitting radon gas constantly.

Houses there have to be built with special systems to avoid trapping the gas.

One of the most hilarious things I've seen is the worry in the USA about the troops on the USS Ronald Reagan, an aircraft carrier that passed under the 'radioactive plume'. I mean, it's not as if the've spent, I don't know, the past however many hundred days at see on a GIANT FLOATING NUCLEAR REACTOR or anything...

The most interesting points in my opinion, from the SOMETHING AWFUL thread were these:

- Really, this should serve as an advertisement for nuclear power - The 50 year old reactors that were designed BEFORE CHERNOBYL survived an earthquake and a typhoon hitting them, and are leaking less radiation than the 3 mile island non-catastrophe in the USA. - I assume everyone has seen the apocalyptic images of the burning oil refineries on the east coast of Japan belching thousands of tonnes of toxic chemicals, sulphur and heavy metals into the atmosphere?

- When everything is working as intended, nuclear power stations emit less radiation than coal fired power stations.

- The public needs to be edumacat0rd about the invisible menace that is nukyula powah to prevent this kind of overreaction, and the media doesn't have any integrity left.

-You can queue up 'experts' to say whatever you want. One muppet quoted on the telegraph website today confirmed that 'this is a problem that could happen with these kind of reactors' (paraphrased). No shit. They are 50 years old and some were due to be decomissioned this year. these are first generation reactors (i believe). We're in the development of developing 3rd generation reactors. If a 9.1 earthqauke and a typhoon can't cause life threatening issues in a first gen reactor, well....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

One has to wonder if the media in japan is any more informed, additionally, while bloke above said that the coverage is a bit weak, really for those of us not in japan (or west coast america ) might be better off reading about it after the fact, as we can be sure bbc will have a timeline when its over.

And then more information will be out too, this doesnt really effect us*.


*Im not saying we shouldnt care, just that following this now is counter productive due to the lack of information. Though the informative diagrams on the bbc, are nice.

 

[Xylak]

One has to wonder if the media in japan is any more informed, ...

Not really, the Japanese government have a history of keeping things to themselves a bit until it becomes difficult to do so.

The mainstream media love to use words like "meltdown" and "radiation leak" as it sounds dramatic rather than focus on what it actually means in real terms - which is to say, not so dramatic.

Here's a very informative post from a man who sounds like he really knows what he's talking about and puts it all into perspective, it's long but answers the pertinent questions in a way most of us can understand : Link
Post is updated when necessary.

 

[Panda with issues...]

Not really, the Japanese government have a history of keeping things to themselves a bit until it becomes difficult to do so.

The mainstream media love to use words like "meltdown" and "radiation leak" as it sounds dramatic rather than focus on what it actually means in real terms - which is to say, not so dramatic.

Here's a very informative post from a man who sounds like he really knows what he's talking about and puts it all into perspective, it's long but answers the pertinent questions in a way most of us can understand : Link
Post is updated when necessary.

That was posted yesterday, in this very thread...

 

[Xylak]

That was posted yesterday, in this very thread...

oops... missed it... sorry

 

[Panda with issues...]

Well, it's looking like 'they' whoever 'they' are have upgraded this to an INES level 6 event.

Despite general optimism, it could well be getting worse. No good sources for this at the moment.

 

[Belegon]

Getting some info on this through wano and other organisations.

Reactor 2 has now popped - 3rd explosion. As well as a fire in the fuel storage building. I feel realy sorry for the guys trying to sort this out, all this whilst worrying about family, friends, your home. everything. Must be awful.

Currently the site at certain hot spots is emitting around 400mSv/hr (compared to chernobyls 10Sv +) its not too bad. Though most radworkers yearly dose is around 50mSv total, that doesn't leave alot of space for guys to work round it - being as first signs of radiation poisoning happen at 200mSv (obtained at half an hour in a hot spot) - your blood cells stop working properly - though over time this recovers. Anything more than 300mSv its permanent damage.

Coolings still going on with sea water and boric acid, also believe they have helicopters pouring water on the reactor vessels too. Just hoping they can keep it cool, chernobyl was a INES 7, and that was felt world wide.

WANO and all nuclear operators are going mad at the moment, and greenpeace aren't here yet, but after the mass protest in germany, im guessing they're on the way!

To reasure though - Nuclear power is safe! Whats not safe is building a plant to withstand a G8 earthquake (as nothings ever been that bad) and getting a G9 and a tsunami. Not good.

 

[Panda with issues...]

Getting some info on this through wano and other organisations.

Reactor 2 has now popped - 3rd explosion. As well as a fire in the fuel storage building. I feel realy sorry for the guys trying to sort this out, all this whilst worrying about family, friends, your home. everything. Must be awful.

Currently the site at certain hot spots is emitting around 400mSv/hr (compared to chernobyls 10Sv +) its not too bad. Though most radworkers yearly dose is around 50mSv total, that doesn't leave alot of space for guys to work round it - being as first signs of radiation poisoning happen at 200mSv (obtained at half an hour in a hot spot) - your blood cells stop working properly - though over time this recovers. Anything more than 300mSv its permanent damage.

Coolings still going on with sea water and boric acid, also believe they have helicopters pouring water on the reactor vessels too. Just hoping they can keep it cool, chernobyl was a INES 7, and that was felt world wide.

WANO and all nuclear operators are going mad at the moment, and greenpeace aren't here yet, but after the mass protest in germany, im guessing they're on the way!

To reasure though - Nuclear power is safe! Whats not safe is building a plant to withstand a G8 earthquake (as nothings ever been that bad) and getting a G9 and a tsunami. Not good.

When you say emitting, that is just in the local vicinity, I.E. Say 300m or so of the reactor yes? Its not emitting a huge plume of radiation that hot across the land?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8383473/Japan-nuclear-crisis-Timeline-of-official-statements.html

Assuming this is correct, it's not looking good.

 

[Belegon]

Radiation tends to follow the double the distance - half the dose rule, so 400m/Sv at contact would be 200m/Sv at a metre and so on.

Having worked on kit which is emitting around 40m/Sv per hour, i can tell you, you get dosed up pretty damn quick.

The white smoke thats about now, now thats not good.

 

[Panda with issues...]

Thanks for this. Presumbly though, that means Tokyo etc is probably safe, considering it's 250km away?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/8384196/The-world-shouldnt-panic-about-Japans-nuclear-problems.html

The telegraph appears to have got a sense of perspective.

 

[Belegon]

At the moment, Tokyo is fine,

However, if this reaches Inex 7 - same as Chernobyl, it will mean it will (potentially) effect the world. Releasing radioactive isotopes of Iodine, Nitrogen, Cobolt and Tritium (heavy water) in which case, expect barrier monitoring points to go off and pop your potasium iodate tablets.

However, the amount of sea water and acid they have on the reactors should contain any leaks and releases, will just be a very big clean up in the local area and probably continual monitoring of a 20km radius.

It is a huge project let alone everything else.

 

[Panda with issues...]

At the moment, Tokyo is fine,

However, if this reaches Inex 7 - same as Chernobyl, it will mean it will (potentially) effect the world. Releasing radioactive isotopes of Iodine, Nitrogen, Cobolt and Tritium (heavy water) in which case, expect barrier monitoring points to go off and pop your potasium iodate tablets.

However, the amount of sea water and acid they have on the reactors should contain any leaks and releases, will just be a very big clean up in the local area and probably continual monitoring of a 20km radius.

It is a huge project let alone everything else.

Sure. This makes sense. To escalate to a chernobyl level event though would be orders of magnitude worse wouldn't it, in terms of radiation levels?

 

[Panda with issues...]

http://mitnse.com/

 

[thatbloke]

This puts the increased levels of radiation into perspective

 

[Ronin Storm]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12892383

The headline for this might as well have read "Non-Event Barely Registers, Media Hysteria Ensues".

The measured level - 300 micro-becquerels per cubic metre - is much less than the natural background radiation dose to which a person in the UK is likely to be exposed in normal circumstances.

So, walking to the shops exposes me to more radiation? Yep, that was worth reporting. On the front page. Not.