[Tech] Bit of a lengthy if statement...
- Thread starter Nanor
- Start date
VibroAxe
Junior Administrator
As a suggestion for stuff which doesn't want to be a webapp.. Most forms of CAD... Not seen anything as yet which could be defined as a webapp and is in anyway functional.
From a security point of view, yes webapps can be on the local intranet, however it is easy enough to break OUT of the intranet (even by accident, help files or similar). In the case of security you can then find a user who thought they were on the intranet suddenly being on the internet by accident and uploading all of the sekritz... (I work in defense, so yeah, this is can be a major problem)
From a security point of view, yes webapps can be on the local intranet, however it is easy enough to break OUT of the intranet (even by accident, help files or similar). In the case of security you can then find a user who thought they were on the intranet suddenly being on the internet by accident and uploading all of the sekritz... (I work in defense, so yeah, this is can be a major problem)
Silk
Well-Known Member
Desktop isn't legacy, unless you're using a browser based OS..?
Seriously though, a pretty poor use of the word legacy there. It's far from redundant, it's still in active development, in a lot of places. Probably moreso than web.
I'm happy to move to java/web as and when needed, but I don't hear the alarm bells yet.
I don't know if you're implying that desktop apps can't communicate via a network? Most.. if not all apps I've written are heavilly network reliant i.e. sql server back end, which each client shares data across. They just don't run in a browser. Mainly because browser apps are still believed to be less secure, but also for other reasons I've mentioned (ease of design/coding in .net etc).
I'm not sure what the climate is like in the UK, but around here to trend is definitely towards dropping desktop apps in favour of web-based solutions. They're generally cheaper and quicker to produce, and upper management LOVES being able to do things from their blackberries.
Further: just because you don't know how to design a webapp doesn't mean it's more difficult than the desktop variety. Also not sure what java has to do with webdev.
Further: just because you don't know how to design a webapp doesn't mean it's more difficult than the desktop variety. Also not sure what java has to do with webdev.
Spicypixel
New Member
Wol
In Cryo Sleep
If its IE, I just disable the stylesheet ;-)
Silk
Well-Known Member
I was thinking out loud about how things are supposedly going to go once Win 8 hits.
I *think* I read somewhere that MS are going that way, but I often get this shit wrong..
As for desktop vs. web, I don't really think we can agree that one is better than the other (as in you and I can't) as we each see merits on both. There are merits in both. In the UK both are very relevant.
Also I said it's "easier" to make a nicely designed app using winforms, I never said it wasn't possible to do the same (or better) in web dev.
But since you said it's faster, you've piqued my interest.. If you can knock up a form with buttons, boxes, etc, which supports windows themes and custom controls, then honestly I'd like to see it, as I'd be interested in learning how. Because those are the real "wins" in desktop for me.. as we speak I have about 30 controls I've written myself in .net - which I'd also like to point out is how people should develop, i.e. make things reusable so that the next app will be written in record time.
I'd also like to know how web gets around the issues of handling local files, for example my app can import/export flat file data to the client, my web guy tells me it'd be difficult to do that in a browser.
One of the big things that stops myself and others moving to web is the many barriers we see, where things are genuinely more difficult (or worse: simply not possible) than how we do things now in a desktop world. It would certainly have taken more time to write my current app in web, even for a web guru. But that's cos I write stuff in .net VERY quickly (again your point about speed confuses me, do your managers not know that speed is generally linked to the skill of their employers and that RAD is very much possible in the .net winforms environment?).
Yes cross platform is a big win for web, assuming it's simple enough to support the diff browsers on the different systems.
Mind you, .net is cross platform, it runs on win xp 32/64, win 7 32/64.. you mean there are other operating systems?!
One of the more interesting things I looked at in Morries was making a mainframe language from the 70's communicate to a web server. It was possible, but damn it was hard. They ended up not using it, too many things had to be setup on the MF system itself and they didn't wanna break the live MF environment.
Wol
In Cryo Sleep
Have a look at jQuery.
http://jqueryui.com/themeroller/ Beautiful customised themes \o/
Not particularly sure what you mean by "supports windows themes" as that sounds like a requirement made by some managerial type who doesn't really know what they want. As in you want the look of the end product to change colour dependent on which system it's used on?
In the same way you upload / download files from a browser? We have an image manager at work where you just click and drag from a folder on your desktop, into the web browser, and everythings automagically processed.
Yes cross platform is a big win for web, assuming it's simple enough to support the diff browsers on the different systems.
(in the simpsons tune) jQueeeeryyyyyyy. It makes all the clientside scripting of it very simple and handles cross browser.
Mind you, .net is cross platform, it runs on win xp 32/64, win 7 32/64.. you mean there are other operating systems?!
trololol. *nothing* should be running on XP 64 bit. Whoever uses that needs to be shot.
Silk
Well-Known Member
"Automagically" - hehe I like it
I can't get my head around how a browser app would do what I do now.. e.g.
Drag/drop interface to select files/folders
Open selected files into a filestream
Transform into an XML stream
Send XML stream > SQL server
I'm guessing all that stuff would still have to be done in .net.
I'm muddy on web stuff but don't you have an extra level of work, like use a scripting language to call the aformentioned .net?
I get really confused with the web and where each piece of technology lies (betweem HTML, scripting langauge, .net etc.). I am happy to admit my knowledge gap here, so will back off on the web vs. desktop debacle. I do however thing people are wrong if they think desktop apps are "bad", they're great, just need good people to write them.
I can't get my head around how a browser app would do what I do now.. e.g.
Drag/drop interface to select files/folders
Open selected files into a filestream
Transform into an XML stream
Send XML stream > SQL server
I'm guessing all that stuff would still have to be done in .net.
I'm muddy on web stuff but don't you have an extra level of work, like use a scripting language to call the aformentioned .net?
I get really confused with the web and where each piece of technology lies (betweem HTML, scripting langauge, .net etc.). I am happy to admit my knowledge gap here, so will back off on the web vs. desktop debacle. I do however thing people are wrong if they think desktop apps are "bad", they're great, just need good people to write them.
Huung
Well-Known Member
I think the point was more they're "bad" as they're an 'unnecessary' tech, given that webapps can do what desktop apps can, and are very much the next progressive step. Horses are "bad" when compared to cars as methods of transport, however, they are delicious when compared to cars as food sources.
Spicypixel
New Member
All hail the delicious app development.
Silk
Well-Known Member
Cars are faster than horses, I've yet to see a web app run faster than a desktop app!
In fact most web apps I've seen have been downright laggy compared.
Ahey,
In browser apps, all that stuff is best done server side. For streams, for instance, it's quite trivial to open a browser-uploaded file as a stream and do whatever you want to do with it. (Although, grantedly, it's slower, as you have to wait for the file to traverse the network...)
I could be wrong, but I think jQuery, GWT and Wicket all have provisions for that sort of stuff.
Basically, the wep apps dev tools landscape out there has pretty much evolved in leaps and bounds over the past three to five years, even faster than the desktop apps landscape evolved twenty or thirty years ago.
(Remember central mainframes accessed by text based terminals? When they first appeared, desktop apps had as many disadvantages over those as web apps had over desktop apps three years ago. The times, they are a'changin'... )
Cheers,
J.
In browser apps, all that stuff is best done server side. For streams, for instance, it's quite trivial to open a browser-uploaded file as a stream and do whatever you want to do with it. (Although, grantedly, it's slower, as you have to wait for the file to traverse the network...)
I could be wrong, but I think jQuery, GWT and Wicket all have provisions for that sort of stuff.
Basically, the wep apps dev tools landscape out there has pretty much evolved in leaps and bounds over the past three to five years, even faster than the desktop apps landscape evolved twenty or thirty years ago.
(Remember central mainframes accessed by text based terminals?
When they first appeared, desktop apps had as many disadvantages over those as web apps had over desktop apps three years ago. The times, they are a'changin'... )Cheers,
J.
Wol
In Cryo Sleep
Send an XML stream to a SQL server? :-| Dont you send SQL streams to an SQL server?
Yes, You can easily do drag drop uploads. http://blueimp.github.com/jQuery-File-Upload/. It's like freakin magic.
Yes, You can easily do drag drop uploads. http://blueimp.github.com/jQuery-File-Upload/. It's like freakin magic.
Silk
Well-Known Member
I'm invoking a stored proc, so it's a choice between varchar(max), xml, or saving a file someplace where the server can see it and using sql file handling. Latter is too nngh as server/client setup would vary per customer, and there are security implications. So I went with gathering up the data, transforming it into something sql can open easilly (openxml) and sending as an xml datatype (which is simply a param in the sp). Then do lots of magic and it ends up in proper tables. BCP wasn't an option in this case otherwise things could have been simpler.
I'm not even sure what a SQL stream is..