[DotA2] General DOTA 2 talk

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd post this thread here, as although we have Nanor's thread, and a bunch of meandering PMs kicking around with various people, I think we could probably do with a general, day-to-day DOTA thread for useful thoughts and stuff.

I may cross post some of the other stuff at some point.

Some recent thoughts about Shadow Demon: He's pretty much a hard counter to Alchemist, and post TI3, there have been an awful lot of alchemist pickers around, to the point that if he's available in the pool, it's rare for me to see him NOT picked. Disruption is great for dodging/saving someone from the stun, as you can hear it charging up, soul catcher rips him to shreds as he doesn't have much armour. I need to test whether Demonic Purge removes chemical rage or not, but it certainly slows him down, making him a lot easier to deal with.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Some thoughts on Outworld Devourer mid, from the perspective of having to deal with him:

He's a very popular mid choice, and rightly so. He's exceptionally strong in a 1 v 1 laning situation due to astral imprisonment. The intelligence theft from astral imprisonment makes it easier for him to last hit, and since many of the commonly played mid heroes (QoP, Puck, Storm Spirit, Batrider, and in pubs Lina, Zeus, Tinker, Skywrath Mage, Invoker, Death Prophet) are intelligence heroes, he hampers their last hitting ability whilst making them unable to use their spells that they often rely upon to farm. He also shuts down other popular mid choices like Magnus and Timbersaw who have limited mana pools, yet rely on spells to help them farm and control the lane.

The obvious solution to this is to take a hero that is not particularly mana dependent (and are not intelligence heroes so he can't ruin their last hitting power), accept that you will never have any mana, and just focus on either last hitting, or health trading him out of the lane by harassment backed with additional regen. Good options here are Kunkka, who is tough and difficult for OD to burst down, and can farm and harass HARD with tidebringer which is mana independent, Dragon Knight who is never going to get killed by OD, and Brewmaster. From the agility pool, interesting options are probably Drow and Sniper, who don't need mana to get their farm, but are susceptible to quick deaths to OD's burst damage. Better options are Troll Warlord, who may be easily able to harass him out of lane, Viper, who doesn't really have any spells anyway, and is quite tough, and the quintessential counter pick, Razor.

The reason Razor is such a hard counter to OD is Static Link. This spell has an essentially negligible mana cost (50 at level 4) and essentially turns the tables on OD, as stealing his damage prevents him from last hitting, keeps you alive and allows excellent harassment. Just to add to the fun, it stays active during astral imprisonment, so there's no escape from the damage slurp.

Another route to take perhaps is to lane against OD using a character that is farm independent and just needs levels, e.g. Pudge, Nyx Assassin. You won't be getting much farm, but as long as you stay safe, try to pick up what you can and get to level 6/7, you can then move into the phase of the game where you want to shine using your ganking abilities.

A final interesting point: I had what I thought was the misfortune of having to lane mid against and OD using Lion. I thought it was going to be a very rough matchup, as Lion is an INT hero, but (partly because the OD player wasn't great) it actually turned out really well due to Mana Drain, lion's much maligned 3rd skill. After being astral imprisoned, I was able to recover mana I spent from OD, which meant that although my mana pool and mana regen rates were low, I had an alternative source. At level 6, Finger of Death could blow up OD easily, and I went on to win the lane, and carry the team to victory, I just had to be very careful with my mana pool. It may not be the best option, but it turned out to be far from the worst.

Some thoughts about boots:

Boots are arguably some of the most important items in the game, especially since pretty much everyone will be carrying a pair for the entire game (the only real exception that comes to mind is a maxed out late game weaver, who uses shukuchi for movement, and drops the boots for a 6th slot damage item). They are the best and most cost efficient way for any character to increase their movement speed, and can really make the difference in a fight, particularly in the early game.

There are 6 different boot options:

Boots of Speed (brown boots, boots)
Phase Boots (Phase)
Power treads (Treads)
Arcane boots (Arcs)
Tranquil Boots (Tranqs)
Bots of Travel (BoTs)

All of which build from Boots of Speed (+50 MS, 450 gold)

Phase: Assembled from boots, and two blades of attack (450+450+450 = 1350), give 55 additional movement speed (MS) and +24 damage), as well as an active MS boost (16% for 4 secs) combined with a phase effect allowing you to walk through other units (low cooldown of 8 secs, spammable). Not disassembleable.

Treads: Assembled from boots (450), gloves of haste (500) and (little known fact according to the wiki) either a belt of giant strength, band of elvenskin or robe of the magi (all 450, total 1400). This component decides the initial stat bonus. Gives 55 MS, +30% attack speed and +8 to the attribute of your choice, with the active effect switching between STR, AGI and INT. Not disassemblable

Arcs: Assembled from boots and an energy booster (450 + 1000 = 1450). +60 MS and +250 mana, with an active mana regen effect (cost 25 mana), giving 135 mana to everyone around you, on a cooldown of 55 secs. Disassemblable

Tranqs: Assembled from boots, a ring of regen and a ring of protection (450 + 175 + 350 = 975). +75 MS, +3 HP regeneration, +3 armour. Active heal of 250 hp over 20 secs for 25 mana on a 60 sec cooldown. Have the ability to break, and leave you without the heal effect and stuck at only +25 MS if you take 3 instances of damage in ten seconds, and the total damage is more than 20. Disassemblable

BoTs: Assembled from boots and a recipe (450 + 2000). +100 MS and active teleport to allied creep or structure every 60s for 75 mana. Not disasemblable

Most people pick up boots as their first purchase, and more often than not, will upgrade them as their first major investment. Generally this is good advice in most situations, but a key thing to think about is how purchasing boots affects your role,particularly in the role of a poor, cash strapped support. Do you REALLY need boots? - Yes, definitely, but do you need them NOW? As a support I've often found myself after buying the courier, the first set of observer wards at the start of the game, and upping the courier, starting to maybe have enough gold for boots at around 6 mins or so. Inconveniently, this is also around the time the first set of observer wards will need to be replaced. - Often, you may be better off sucking it up for another minute or two, wait for your boots and make sure the wards are replaced immediately. It is also very dependent upon what character you're playing - Supports like KotL, Abaddon and Naga have high starting base MS and can get away without buying boots (or upgrading them) a little longer, on the other hand, Crystal Maiden and Shadow Shaman are slow as shit, and not having boots may increase the chance of missing a first blood or getting first blooded. To put this into perspective, Naga without any boots (320) is almost as fast as CM with normal boots (330).

Addtionally, other roles will generally want boots, particularly roaming gankers, but if you're a safe lane hard carry who's going to be farming constantly for a while, like AM, Spectre, PA, PL, do you actually need boots right away? I'm not suggesting you don't buy them, but maybe you're better off at first putting 300 gold into a poor man's shield, giving you extra protection against harass so you can stay in the lane, some additional last hitting power to make your farming easier, and a little more attack speed, particularly if your team has been protecting you, and you have an ability to improve your mobility anyway (blink, pseudoblink, invis, spectral dagger). You may want to spend a little money bringing a salve to you on the courier in order to heal up and stay in lane farming etc. Getting hurt, having to walk back to the fountain without boots just to heal up isn't worth the XP and last hits missed if you can help it, and having boots doesn't make it much faster. It's cheaper and more efficient to get a salve brought to you on the courier than it is to buy a TP at the side shop, TP back, heal then walk back to lane. Getting more regen after the start isn't an ideal use of your gold, but it's nothing to be embarrassed about. No one sensible will bite your head off for it, especially if you're having a rough laning phase. It can even lead to effective health trading, where you can heal up, harass your opponents out of lane and get free farm while they miss out on last hits and XP.

So, the next stage, choosing what boots to upgrade to.

Firstly: Do you definitely need to upgrade your boots? Again, as a support, you may need to prioritise wards and things like dust over improved boots. Typically you may want arc boots to use more spells, but perhaps you just need to manage your mana pool more carefully? As a carry, do you actually need to improve your boots right away? Are you better off saving for a crucial item to help you farm (i.e. a battlefury for AM, PA, or a vanguard for some other heroes to keep them alive in lane, such as old fashioned vanguard -> radiance builds on spectre) or a critical item such as an orchid for clinkz or storm spirit which allows you to actually perform your role properly?

But, back to choosing the correct boots: This is where a little more of my opinion comes in.

Let's deal with BoTs first: Basically, they're a late game item on almost everyone except split pushers, and even then, they're not normally a fist choice of boots, except in the case of tinker. They're generally bought up in the late midgame to lategame for split pushers, or as a desperation measure in very tight games in order to attempt to outmanoeuvre the opposing team and break their base before they can react. They're expensive, the components aren't easy to build up. Situationally they can be really good on some of the slower heroes, invoker in particular can really use them to his advantage both from the natural MS and to help his split pushing.

Tranqs: Basically, I think these are generally shit. Although these are dirt cheap and an easy build up, they're the only boots (except BoTs?) where not all the components can be bought from the side shop, meaning that you have to use the courier to get the ring of protection (when it could generally be used more importantly elsewhere) or you need to start with a ring of protection, which isn't always ideal use of your starting gold. The MS is great, and can particularly help slow characters like CM, but is prone to breaking at the worst possible moments, like, say when you're desperately attempting to flee... You also have to remember that you're giving up the other benefits of other boots when you chose these. Generally I don't think these are a good choice for anyone, especially after maybe 15-20 minutes. I think they're situationally useful in 4 cases:

  1. If you are a hard carry farmer: These essentially give you a free salve every minute, a bit of armour and some health regen, which should keep you in lane and farming passively. They should always be upgraded to actually useful boots ASAP before you start to engage in teamfights.
  2. If you are a roaming ganker, particularly a slow one. If you are going to need to be moving around the map a lot on foot in the early game (e.g. a character like Pudge, a roaming Venge) then the significant MS boost available when not under attack can be really useful. Similarly, you can make your kill, use the active to heal up, then go roaming again for another target. Probably still need upgrading before teamfighting starts in earnest.
  3. You are going to be building a Mekanism or Pipe (and also want the ring of protection for a Ring of Basilius or something to help pushing/making a Vladamir's offering). You can use the Ring of Regen in these cases after disassembling the boots to get a little head start on the Headdress for Mek or the Hood of Defiance for Pipe. You're still going to be wanting to disassemble these boots after 15 minutes.
  4. You want to use a soul ring/tranqs combo to keep boosting your mana and regenerating the sacrificed HP. Generally I find the HP loss from the soul ring to be more than manageable without needing the Tranqs, especially as the Soul Ring contains it's own ring of Regen.
I tend to find support characters are either alive, or dead, rather than walking around on mid or low HP, meaning the active heal isn't very useful for me.

Arcs: These are quite expensive, and the 1000 gold for the energy booster is actually quite a lot to save, especially for a poor support, making the build up fairly difficult. Again, you're sacrificing the damage and benefits of the other options, notably treads and phase, for a mana pool boost and a active effect. While there are characters that undoubtedly need these or strongly benefit from them (Shadow Shaman, Sand King), they're very much a situational pickup at best for most heroes, even the mana starved ones. Heroes on a tight mana pool (e.g. Sven) are often much better off with a soul ring, which is cheap and easy to build up, as well as having a lower cool down. These boots are useful to have in a team, and are especially good in the early game when people are running about with tiny mana pools and maxed out expensive spells (most people normally max an ability by lvl 7) but have very little effect late game. Probably solid in a trilane. Some utility if you want to disassemble later to make a bloodstone.

Phase: Easy build up, quite cheap, good damage early in the game, active effect strong all game, but particularly in the mid game for ganking and chasing. Generally useful on heroes that want to stack straight damage (such as PA) or really want the escapability or chase effect (they're an interesting choice on a more fighty windrunner, as they give extra damage and the active synergises well with windrun). Often built highly effectively on heroes such as doom and lifestealer as part of a 'racecar' build of Phase, drum of endurance, yasha in which MS is prised over all for the ability to run down fleeing opponents. Lifestealer can use them to catch people with open wounds to get up to them, Doom just becomes terrifying, as Scorched Earth also increases his movement speed. Damage is a tradeoff compared to treads. +24 damage vs the +8 treads can give you if you put it on your primary attribute is a lot more in the early game, but in the late game, the extra attack speed from treads becomes more and more powerful.

Treads: Easily my favourite boots, and I build them on almost everyone now. The build up is really easy, and you can take the belt of giant strength early to give you a little more survivability when you're completing them in lane. The attack speed is great, and really scales well into the late game, particularly on damage dealing right click characters. It can also help people with shitty attack animations like CM. The +8 to the attribute of your choice is brilliant. Supports really like the +8 to strength (it's almost as much as holding an ogre club, and more than a bracer), as it stops you being so squishy, people with mana problems can get a bit out of the +8 intelligence, as it can make the difference between getting off one more crucial spell in a fight. Everyone can use the ability to toggle to +8 strength for HP when running away on low health. Agility carries obviously like the +8 agi for damage and attack speed. Everyone can use their natural stat type for extra damage. Anyone using a bottle can switch to agility before glugging, minimising their HP and Mana, getting more out of the bottle's regen, and this also works with salves, clarities etc. They're flexible, and awesome, and IMO almost always the right choice no matter what.
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
Another viable counter to OD is Silencer for obvious reasons. I've never actually played Silencer but my understanding is he has some sort of silencing ability (confirm anyone?). Generally OD is just a prick. A hero that's popped to mind to counter is Mirana. If you can get her spear off from a decent distance and get a good stun, you can charge in and do a reasonable amount of damage. If things get too heavy you can always just escape. Similarly if you're in lane farming and see OD hovering towards you, just hop out.

Pudge is a viable option, though the intelligence loss can be just as devastating on him as any other hero. You may find after a successful hook you don't have any mana to follow up with your ultimate.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Good options here are Kunkka, who is tough and difficult for OD to burst down, and can farm and harass HARD with tidebringer which is mana independent, Dragon Knight who is never going to get killed by OD, and Brewmaster. From the agility pool, interesting options are probably Drow and Sniper, who don't need mana to get their farm, but are susceptible to quick deaths to OD's burst damage. Better options are Troll Warlord, who may be easily able to harass him out of lane, Viper, who doesn't really have any spells anyway, and is quite tough, and the quintessential counter pick, Razor.
DK is survivable, but actually is significantly slowed by loss of intelligence (and thus mana). The problem is that DK's major powers are all mana-intensive, except Dragon Form (only 50 mana) so he's reduced to chopping stuff with his sword for the most part.

I guess that one trick you're playing with here, on any of Kunkka, DK or Brew is that they've got good passives that help them retain effectiveness despite OD's Astral Imprisonment. I'd seriously play Kunkka mid against OD and let Tidebringer slap the crap out of him. The trick here is that OD can quickly switch to high-damage output so you need ranged harass or a way to quickly close on him and burst him down. Axe might work, but the closing distance is an issue and Astral Imprisonment gives OD time to back off out of Counter Helix range.

On Nanor's note on Silencer: it's a "who's the better player" race. Silencer requires mana to function, so if OD starts to dominate then he'll be shut down just like any other intelligence mid.

Makes me wonder about crazy mid choices, like Omniknight with Repel to basically neuter Astral Imprisonment. Huskar might be able to just jump on OD as most of his stuff just requires HP. I also wonder if Bloodseeker's Blood Rage would help; it dispels the target before silencing them...

Tranqs: Basically, I think these are generally shit.
Don't forget Junglers; Axe can often find these useful for jungling as he tends to take a fair few hits while waiting for Counter Helix to clear a camp. That said, I agree that they're situational and if you're a hero that needs to escape then a loss of 50 MS at the moment you need to be running is a disaster.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Good responses, thanks. I had indeed not mentioned junglers, and that's an oversight. In that case they function exactly as described for a safe lane farming carry.

On the matter of OD:

I think you just have to accept that you're probably not going to win the lane or kill him in a one on one situation in the vast majority of cases unless he makes a mistake, and the best you can hope to get out of the lane is levels and or farm intact/solid. The reason I mentioned DK is that you can still get farm by chopping with his sword, even if you can't spam dragon breath. Ultimately, I suggest that the more appropriate general solution is probably 'gank mid often'.

In terms of silencer, I did have a good think about it, and sort of rejected it for these reasons: As Ronin has already suggested, Silencer is a relatively mana dependent hero. Additionally, he's an INT hero, so losing his INT really hurts his last hitting power (which isn't great anyway), he also has no flash farming ability to compensate for this. OK, so if he can kill OD he can take some INT from him which helps, but I honestly don't see that happening easily in lane due to the following reasons:

To get a kill (I play a lot of Silencer, so this comes from experience), you harass them down using Curse of the Silent, until they get to a level where you can put last word on them, wait for the silence to drop, then Curse them again to assure the full Damage over Time effect, all the while hitting them with his Orb effect. This is very mana intensive. OD is going to be happy to spam Astral Imprisonment to break Curse, so you definitely need the full Last word -> Curse combo. Unfortunately, OD can recover his mana using his passive, so unlike other targets, you're unlikely to shut down his spellcasting ability. Secondly, silencer doesn't actually have an immediate silence until his Ult, so you'll probably never stop him getting the AI off. 3rdly, Silencer is squishy as hell, and OD's burst from Orb will really ruin your day fast I think.

Additionally, I'm not sure, but if he casts astral imprisonment on himself, I think he'd avoid much of the damage and mana drain of Curse, and possibly avoid the damage of Last Word? Either way, last word doesn't stop the first spell going off, so he's safe for a while, which may reduce the duration he's available to be silenced.

That said, I think that Silencer is pretty solid against him in the late game, as he can keep up with the intelligence level through INT theft, negating a lot of the effect of the OD ulti. As OD doesn't have many spells, in a teamfight you can probably get the Last Word -> Curse combo off more effectively. In any way, you can prevent him either dropping the Ulti, or the Astral Imprisonment in the fight.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Additionally, I'm not sure, but if he casts astral imprisonment on himself, I think he'd avoid much of the damage and mana drain of Curse, and possibly avoid the damage of Last Word? Either way, last word doesn't stop the first spell going off, so he's safe for a while, which may reduce the duration he's available to be silenced.
AI makes the target hidden and invulnerable, except to Sanity's Eclipse, so I'd expect it to temporarily counter most DoT effects.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
My personal highlights:
Patch Notes said:
  • Item purchases can be made at the secret shop if the courier is at that location without selecting the courier
  • Alt-left clicking on an enemy icon in the top bar will send a chat message that the hero is missing
  • Added three new matchmaking language preference options: Korean, Spanish, and Portuguese
  • When a courier you ordered to the secret shop enters the shop radius, the shop sound is played even if the courier is not selected
  • Fixed slow hero build loading times for users with a large number of subscribed or previously used hero builds
  • CAPTAINS DRAFT
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd do a little write up on items I think are pretty underrated:

TP scroll: A little bit of an odd choice, but generally I still don't feel people are carrying them enough. You should pretty much always carry one on you after the first 10 minutes or so at the latest, as it becomes likely that towers will start to be pressured. Carrying one early can seriously help to set up teleport ganks on your opponent's offlaner(s). In this case you should teleport to your safelane tier 2 tower, and approach through the jungle so they don't see you as easily. Obviously useful for shoring up a tower defence, scaring off solo enemy pushers and rapidly mobilising yourself to aid a fast push of your own team. Loses some effect in the midgame and late game as your towers fall, but still very important to carry one in case you need a fast escape after a push, or a quick return to base to defend against an opponent's push. 135 gold, less than 3 last hits, essential.

Dust of Appearance: 180 g, 2 charges. 5 mana, 60s CD, lasts for 12 seconds, reveals invis units (not wards) in a wide radius. Slows invis units by 10%. I generally prefer this now to sentry wards, particularly on chasing heroes, as the slow is pretty effective. Highly effective if carried by two people, as the second can 'redust' if the chase has not finished. Slightly cheaper than Sentry wards. Better in an offensive, ganking role. Sentries are probably still a little better defensively, for instance when defending a tower, preparing for a teamfight in a known location (often the mid river) or to protect a flank on a risky push.

Poor Man's Shield: Great early item on melee agility carries, and situationally on agility supports. 550g, Builds from 250g stout shield and 2x Slippers of agi. Helps a little bit with damage output for agility heroes, consequently improving their last hitting ability. Shields generally only worth it on melee characters. On a melee character does 100% guaranteed 20 blocked physical damage on every enemy hero attack, and 60% chance to block twenty damage on every instance of damage from non hero units. Really awesome item early game, helps you stay in lane, really easy build up, can be completely purchased from the side shop.

Soul Ring: 800g. Builds from Ring of REgen (350), Sage's mask (325) and Recipe (125). Passive +3 HP/sec regen, +50% mana regen. Active sacrifices 150 HP to gain 150 mana on a 30 sec cooldown. Incredibly useful on strength heroes who want to use their abilities, or pretty much anyone who has early game mana problems. Key to this is if you think you're going to buy one, try to pick up the recipe at the start, as the rest of it can then be bought in the side shop. A legitimate cheaper alternative which is easier to build up than arcane boots, leaving you with another set of boots to choose.

Buckler: 803g. Build up from chainmail (550), ironwood branch (53) and recipe (200). Principally, this is only going to be built as a stepping stone to a mechanism, but it is a far better purchase than the headdress as the first component: Passive +2STR, +2AG +2INT and +5 armour, with an active aura costing 10 mana on a 25sec cooldown giving +2 armour to surrounding units (lasts 25 secs on heroes, 30 on non heroes). This can really help in an early teamfight even if the Mek hasn't been completed (the armour bonus is the same as mek). Basically, please build this first before headdress if you're the one building mek. It makes you, and everyone else, more survivable.

Heaven's Halberd: 3850g. Builds from Sange (2050) and Talisman of evasion (1800). Not the most difficult build up, considering Sange itself is really easy. Passive +20STR, +25 Damage +25% evasion. Passive lesser maim, a 15% chance to slow target's MS and AS by 20%. Active disarm: 100 mana, 30s CD, prevents target from right click attacking for 3 secs if a melee target, 4.5 for ranged targets. Yes, this isn't as good as a hex, as they can still cast spells and don't lose evasion etc, but it's a lot cheaper and easier to build up than a scythe of vyse, gives really useful stats and effects to strength heroes. Is also good for heroes with illusions, as the strength bonus helps make the illusions harder. Good choice for people like Doom, Chaos Knight, support Naga, Wisp, Treant. Also really good on tough heroes such as DK, Lifestealer, as the evasion, combined with their innate resilience really makes them so difficult to bring down, whilst the passive potential maim effect helps to chase.

Diffusal Blade: 3300g Builds from 2x Blade of alacrity (1000), robe of the magi (450) and recipe (850). Passive +22 AGI, +6INT, feedback on attacks burning 20 mana per hit and dealing that as 20 damage. Active Purge (8 charges): Slows for 4 second on an 8sec cooldown, removes positive buffs, purging self removes debuffs. Instantly dispells summoned units (inc warlock's golem). Feedback works with melee illusions, making this a great choice for agi heroes with illusions or that want to carry manta style. Situationally useful if there are lots of summons on the other team, but the basic effects and AGI increase are really good. Buying recipe again refills charges, and increases the feedback effect to 36 mana/damage, and boosts the passive AG to 26 and INT to 10. Really flexible choice and solid on almost every agi hero, even just for the active slow.

Bracer: 525g. Builds from circlet (185) guantlets of STR (150) and recipe (190). Passive + 6STR, +3AGI + 3INT +3 Damage. Easy build up, great item to help squishy supports stay alive, even if it doesn't get turned into anything else. Can be upgraded to Drum of Endurance. Really cost efficient stats increase.

Drum of Endurance: 1775g. Builds from Bracer (525), robe of magi (450) and recipe (800). +9 STR, +9AG, +9 INT, +3 DMG. Passive swiftness aura of +attack and movespeed of 5%. Active endurance effect (4 charges): 6second +10 AS and MS to all allies on a 30 sec CD. Great for chasing, great for chasing heroes, great efficient way of stacking stats. I really rate the active charges for melting towers and barracks fast. Prob only need one on a team.
Pipe of Insight: 3628g. Builds from hood of defiance (2125) headdress (603) and recipe (900). Passive +11 HP regen, +30% magic resistance. Active barrier effect: 60 sec CD, 100 mana gives 10 sec shield which blocks 400 magical damage. Although there are a lot of pieces to this, it's still an easy build up. Situationally, this is a LOT more effective than mechanism against a spell heavy lineup. If someone else is carrying a mek, then these 2 items really give a leg up in teamfights.

Urn of Shadows: (875). Builds from Sage's mask (325), 2x Gauntlets of Str (150) and recipe (250). Passive +6 STR, +50% mana regen, Gains 1 charge when enemy heroe dies in it's vicinity (gains 2 charges if empty). Active soul release: Heals 400 hp on friendly over time, deals 150 dmg to enemy over 8 secs, cooldown 10 secs. Really cheap stats, easy to build up, useful early mana regen for supports. A fantastic item on any support ganker, or even situationally on more core ganking heroes such as Nyx, Spirit Breaker or Huskar. Best to only have one, as the charges can't be caught by multiple Urns. Excellent early pushing item, as as long as you pick up kills, your support can dole out the heals to sustain a push for a long while.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
On starting with recipes:

Purge made this point and I'm tending to agree, after some consideration.

Soul Ring recipe is 125 gold. You're buying it to save a courier trip early game. But it's useless until you've farmed the other items and as such it's making the assumption that you'll not have problems in your lane that spending another 90 gold on a tango, or 100 gold on a salve, or 2x50 gold on clarity potions wouldn't be a better choice. Basically, you're gambling on coming out on top in laning and then using that little bit of saved courier time to accelerate your victory. That's it. This may not actually be a good gamble.

On Buckler vs Headdress:

I don't think it's a linear choice of Buckler first. Buckler will be stronger in teamfights, certainly, but in aggressive laning I'd actually suggest that Headdress would be a better choice for the +3 HP regen aura, meaning that all lane partners can benefit from a single purchase, where the small armour improvement probably isn't going to be the biggest benefit in the early game (block > armour for the first 10-15 mins). That said, it's a good thing to think on when looking at building Mek and choosing the most appropriate one.
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
I always carry the soul ring recipe. So handy.

Hell, I even carry if it I don't intend to buy a soul ring.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
I like soul ring particularly on broodmother, and so she definitely doesn't want to leave the lane. It's certainly a very good point.

I think it's an even better point if you've got good courier management. Unfortunately in a lot of pub games you could be without access to the courier for 5 mins + because other people are monopolising it or have got it killed.

I generally think clarity potions aren't very good, so that's one reason would tend to favour an early soul ring. Where possible, a strong strategy may be to buy lots of regen and harass the enemy out of lane to get more last hits via hp trading, which would favour not getting the recipe.
 

Ghostwolf67

Well-Known Member
I always have a ring on Omniknight. The spells necesary to save your laning partner are between half and all your mana. I buy the recipe at the start then. With onmiknight in your lane you probably arent hands down winning it, but your far harder to dislodge.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
The lane control between Battle hunger and Curse of the Silent is just disgusting. They rarely have any mana or health, you can just zone them out of lane, especially with counter helix.
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
I imagine a Drow would work quite well against that. Frost arrows requiring next to no mana ensure you can escape an Axe who charges in an attempt to counter helix and the proficiency at last hitting means battle hunger is less of a problem. Definitely a potent combo, though.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Her issue would be constant right click harass and the damage from Curse, as arrows don't count as a cast to remove it. But yes, anyone with good last hitting power and a cheap spammable spell does well against it. - TA is a perfect example.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Patch was pretty fat, probably worth setting it to dl a while before you want to play, either that or servers were really busy. Probably the latter.
 
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