Microsoft Versus EU

[Nanor]

Ding ding ding!

In its statement on Friday the Commission said: "Microsoft's tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice."

Am I the only one that finds that fucking ridiculous?

Please tell me I'm missing something here.

 

[elDiablo]

You realise this is the second time the EU has gone after MS? The first time they fined them something stupid like £850million. And it's not that stupid. Both my sister, and Emma's dad's places of work don't allow the installation of new programs on their work machines, and both are having issues with IE, both their places of work don't have a clue how to fix it, and yet both places of work force their employees to use it. Hell, a non-techy friend had IE crash on her 5 seconds after she loads it every time she opened it. It's a piece of crap.

I'm not going to try and get these places to install Firefox (my browser of choice), but I've told these people to get on to their IT departments and get them to install SOMETHING else. Chrome, Opera, Firefox, whatever. I'd like to say these are isolated examples, but I fear that non-IT based companies everywhere are exactly the same as this.

I'd hope that if the EU make it so that Windows is sold without IE then Windows would either be cheaper (and you'd pay for IE, which I doubt will happen), or it'd be the same price, and people would have to download IE. Either way, it makes the IT departments at least look online, and maybe find something BETTER. Though I know this is all crap, and would never happen, I can but dream.

Edit - My bad, it was 899million Euros, not pounds. Sorry!

 

[Nanor]

Yes, IE is a piece of crap but it's the fault of the businesses if they don't allow the installation of new programs on their system.

If these places don't allow installation of any sort of program on their systems, how are they gonna browse the internet if they've got no browser at all? I mean they're not allowed to install anything so they're kinda screwed.

 

[thatbloke]

Yes but with a business that has any kind of IT department you would expect that they will have a preconfigured image with pre-installed software. People won't NEED any more software to do their job than what is already provided.

The problem with Firefox is that it is in fact too customizable. If it was present then because of the ability to modify it and install various addons everyone's system would be different, then if someone had a problem with its web browser then it could just be because of a faulty addon.

Anyway... Portable Firefox may be what you want in that case.

Regarding the whole MS antitrust thing, the statement from the article that Nanor posted is entirely true. Alot of people think that because they have a web browser "that works" why should they change it? If people were given the choice to install any browser of their choice at first run then they would have to look into it a little and do a bit of research. Maybe then they would also, as well as choosing a browser of their preference (IE or whatever), be more informed about the kind of security risks that are present online too and how to safeguard against such things.

The same could be said with Windows Media Player, but tbh I actually quite like WMP so

 

[Haven]

If you're a maker of Web Browser of Movie Player or Internet Communications software then Microsoft Bundling IE/WMP and MSN with their Operating System for free challenges the concept of an open market. When asked to "unbundle" these software packages Microsoft refused stating that IE and WMP were intrinsic to the operating of the system.

Hope that makes it clear for you Nanor. This is about choice for the consumer. In the same way that we "should" be able to purchase computers without having windows forced on us, we should also be able to purchase Windows without also getting IE/WMP and other assorted "extras". Or there should be an easy and simple method of uninstalling them if thats too hard a concept.

The flip side of this coin is that Linux rocks

*puts on his penguin t-shirt and does the ra ra linux dance*

 

[Nanor]

Yeah it's a bit clearer now. But still, if you have no web browser how can you surf the net to get another one? And asking MS to put Firefox in is like asking Mercedes to put a BMW engine in their car for you.

 

[thatbloke]

When Windows 7 hits the idea with that is that it will be modular - this means that you will get the basic OS and then extra modules that you can include on top of that. I don't know if all modules are going to be Mickeysoft only or they are going to be able to be supplied by 3rd party vendors aswell but if that is the case I expect that GNU will come out with one that includes Firefox, OpenOffice and such like in a free package.

I suspect that such things may be able to be downloaded in a similar way to how Windows Update works.

 

[Traxata]

I think you'll get an option, like when you first install Vista, if you want to install messenger, it's not bundled anymore, it has a shortcut to download it on the start menu.

 

[PsiSoldier]

What the fuck?

 

[waterproofbob]

What the fuck?

You want to extend that thought a little there Psi.

Personally I'd be happy if it was easier to get rid of.

 

[decky101]

I honestly don't mind that IE is bundled with MS's OPs (too many acryonms) as it's something microsoft produce, and therefore, it's something they like to put with it. I do however, see your point about it being clunky, and often, ineffective. I, personally, am a regular user of IE, I use a combination of both it and Chrome, which I find to be particularly effective. The idea, however, that one couldn't untie it because without having it pre-installed is kinda silly, as it would be quite easy to put a "Find web browser" type thing in the same vein of "Update drivers" and things like that.

For elD - €1 is currently worth £0.9004, so €899 million is currently worth, £809,459,600, so don't worry mate, £850 million wasn't a bad guesstimate . Besides, you said "something like" not "exactly" so don't worry. Yay for being thorough .

 

[Traxata]

You want to extend that thought a little there Psi.

Personally I'd be happy if it was easier to get rid of.

I hate the fact that if you delete IE from your PC, and try to un-install it, it re-populates the folder :/ Only successful way is via the registry :/

 

[Xarlaxas]

It's also rather annoying that to access parts of the Microsoft website you *have* to use Internet Explorer it would seem, so even if you could uninstall I.E from your computer it will make things harder for you in the long run....

 

[VibroAxe]

I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate here.

Lets assume for a moment, that Microsoft stop issuing IE with their operating systems

a) are apple going to stop issuing safari, should KDE stop bundling Konqueror in the default packages?

b) how, pray tell, are you going to get firefox/chrome/<enter browser of choice>

 

[Traxata]

I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate here.

Lets assume for a moment, that Microsoft stop issuing IE with their operating systems

a) are apple going to stop issuing safari, should KDE stop bundling Konqueror in the default packages?

b) how, pray tell, are you going to get firefox/chrome/<enter browser of choice>

These are the exact same things I was thinking ... Unless browsers becomes a peice of software sold in a retail store, which would be annoying as hell, you'd have to pay to buy them at this point. It'd also make the 'web' a much more annoying this to access, though, I guess like all "good" manufacturers, they'd start installing something on the machines along with all the other shit that comes with them...

If MS remove IE from Windows 7, I guess that'll just be something else removed from the 'basic' version like Vista basic doesn't have the media player on it, or MS's 'home entertainment' package.

 

[Haven]

But still, if you have no web browser how can you surf the net to get another one?

Back in ye olde days, all software came from shops on things called floppy disks ... or if you were really posh on the front of a monthly magazine

The world PI (Pre-Internet) as remembered by old people.

And asking MS to put Firefox in is like asking Mercedes to put a BMW engine in their car for you.

Well Honda use Mercedes engines Nobody is asking MS to bundle new software, but providing some means of removing the old when its not wanted is a valid requirement.

 

[Haven]

There is a site called:

http://windizupdate.com/

That provides windows updates via non-IE browsers if thats an issue. It is a valid site btw and not some dodgy one

 

[VibroAxe]

These are the exact same things I was thinking ... Unless browsers becomes a peice of software sold in a retail store, which would be annoying as hell, you'd have to pay to buy them at this point. It'd also make the 'web' a much more annoying this to access, though, I guess like all "good" manufacturers, they'd start installing something on the machines along with all the other shit that comes with them...

If MS remove IE from Windows 7, I guess that'll just be something else removed from the 'basic' version like Vista basic doesn't have the media player on it, or MS's 'home entertainment' package.

Microsoft just wont remove web browser connectivity from their base install. It's impracticle. When explorer used to be able to handle web requests as well as IE, it could have been done. But now all internet is handled by IE, it's just not going to happen.
The only possibility would be for microsoft to have a link on the desktop to "Install IE" which everyone would end up clicking anyway.....

My personal issue with this is thats it's just not been thought out by eu, are they going to start complaining that notepad shouldn't be bundled soon? I buy an operating system, because it manages my files, but has at least a basic suite of stuff to get me started.

but providing some means of removing the old when its not wanted is a valid requirement.

How difficult is it to go into remove windows components if you REALLY want to be rid of IE

 

[waterproofbob]

I have no issue with them bundling IE with the OS, if like Apple it is nice and easy to remove the thing once it is installed.

 

[Haven]

How difficult is it to go into remove windows components if you REALLY want to be rid of IE

The simply answer is its very difficult, you have to find all the dll and registry dependancies for all the relevant *.exe's and then check what fundamental functionality is removed by their removal i.e. shared dll's. Yes it can be done and has been done *inserts warning about warez talk to pre-empt where this might go* but its not do-able by most.

Then there is the legal issue, the terms and conditions of use for Windows prohibit modification of the core system.