Microsoft Versus EU

[BiG D]

Back in ye olde days, all software came from shops on things called floppy disks ... or if you were really posh on the front of a monthly magazine

And there's very good reasons that stopped happening.

Really. Do you actually have a problem with IE being "bundled," or do you just want to stick it to Microsoft?

 

[thatbloke]

Maybe the problem then is not that it is being bundled, but more that MS need to make people more aware that there are alternatives out there that could be used instead.

 

[BiG D]

So you think companies should be required to inform consumers that they could get a product from their competition instead?

"Welcome to Burger King, where we're required by law to let you know that there's a McDonalds next door."

 

[thatbloke]

Yea - a big insurance company in the UK just started doing that actually.

Maybe not required in all cases, but Microsoft have a very large monopoly when it comes to Operating Systems so a move that will open up some parts of its software to more competition I believe to be a good thing.

 

[Haven]

Really. Do you actually have a problem with IE being "bundled," or do you just want to stick it to Microsoft?

I'm pro choice, personally I use both Linux and Windows for different reasons. I know how to rip out IE should I desire to but I appreciate that not everyone has that power and its the lack of that option that I dislike as well as the precedent that it sets for including other non removable applications tied to the underlying OS. Whilst bundling IE without an installer may or may not be all important it sets a precedent that needed to be discussed to prevent other software markets being locked out by such tactics.

 

[Nanor]

Well Honda use Mercedes engines

I was making reference to BMW and Mercedes rivalry.

Also, BiG D has won this thread in two posts. GG.

 

[decky101]

To be perfectly honest, if people don't like IE, why not just download another browser? And what's the problem with it being there like, it's hardly like it disrupts things for you just by being on your OP. Simple answer really:

If you like IE, use it.

If you don't, download another and leave IE to rot away in your computer for a long time.

Also, Must agree with Nanor, Big D won this thread in two posts .

 

[waterproofbob]

I don't see there need to integrate it into the OS though, it's ott and I don't want it rotting away on my system, I like to keep my system clear of junk that is unhelpfuil clunky and made of fail. That's why iTunes isn't installed on my main OS p).

I don't think MS need to make people aware that there are browsers that don't suck bum gravy through a straw however everyone should be easily able to remove said bum gravyage if they choose to do so. There's a giant difference between having a bundled browser and having a browser essentially all but chained to your OS so that no one will ever think about looking elsewhere.

And if you'd not grasped thus far IE sucks nuts.

 

[Haven]

To be perfectly honest, if people don't like IE, why not just download another browser? And what's the problem with it being there like, it's hardly like it disrupts things for you just by being on your OP. Simple answer really:

By giving IE away for free MS put Netscape out of Business, its only competitor at the time. By giving away IE for free Microsoft effectively killed the market for browsers which is why there are so many "free" browsers out there now and so few paid for ones.

By giving media player away for free they have also effectively killed off companies like powerDVD forcing them to give their software away for free as part of game bundles or crippleware versions just to get a foot in the market.

Apply the same logic to software market x,y,z. I'm all for free stuff but I am not all for the killing off of talented companies by bundling applications in this manner.

 

[decky101]

If IE "sucked nuts" sufficiently enough, then there wouldn't be a problem for company custom creating their own OSs for a price, as everyone would hail them as their saviours for rescuing from the sheer misery of IE, but because it's not THAT bad, it gets away with it. To be frank, I like IE. I have absolutely no problems with it ever, it's sleek, easily accessible and doesn't get in my way (Functional is the damn word I'm looking for! )

The point you make is a fair one, why integrate it into their OS, but the simple fact is that it's their own right to do so, they can do whatever they damn well please because it's theirs and there's not enough people complaining about it to make them actually listen. It's not a huge component file, it doesn't hog HD space, so just leave it to gather dust. Sure, you may want it to get off your system completely, but if it really bothers you so much and you're sufficiently computer literate, it can be removed (if somewhat illegally)

My own simple opinion is that it's absolutely idiotic to ask MS to advertise other browsers, and it's simply never going to happen. If it bothers you much that IE is rotting away on your hard drive, then appeal to MS about it, perhaps if you make a good enough case about it, you could get IE to be made more easily removed. If not, then forget about the silly ol' thing and just let IE die.

 

[waterproofbob]

If it bothers you much that IE is rotting away on your hard drive, then appeal to MS about it, perhaps if you make a good enough case about it, you could get IE to be made more easily removed. If not, then forget about the silly ol' thing and just let IE die.

This is entirely why the EU has to be the ones fighting them, Companies the size of MS aren't going to give 2 shits about one person or even 1000 people complaining. It takes something with the sheer girth of EU to make an attempt to make MS change. It is unlikely to do much in the long run.

Also regarding other browsers, we don't need to pay for another one that is made of win Mozilla have done it for nothing. I know very few people who having converted to firefox have ever gone back. This is true both on the windows and even more so on the MAC side.

 

[BiG D]

By giving IE away for free MS put Netscape out of Business, its only competitor at the time. By giving away IE for free Microsoft effectively killed the market for browsers which is why there are so many "free" browsers out there now and so few paid for ones.

By giving media player away for free they have also effectively killed off companies like powerDVD forcing them to give their software away for free as part of game bundles or crippleware versions just to get a foot in the market.

Netscape killed Netscape.

Is MS really to blame in the case of powerdvd? The MS apps are so basic that anyone besides a casual user will need something better. Do they cut into purchases that a casual user would make? Maybe... but would those people even own a computer if it didn't do what they want right out of the box? Not likely.

 

[decky101]

I'm sorry, but to go back to the original statement, "Microsoft's tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice."

This, is pretty ridiculous to be honest, It's like saying Nike shouldn't supply their shoes with laces, as it ultimately may reduce consumer choice when it comes to choosing their preferred laces. I can see where you are coming from, but are the EU objecting to it being difficult to remove IE, or the sheer fact that it's pre-installed on the OS? If it's the former, fair enough, I hope they win, but if it's the latter, I hope they have one helluvan argument to beat MS, because the giant that is MS will inevitably win unless the case presented is a particularly potent one.

 

[waterproofbob]

I'm sorry, but to go back to the original statement, "Microsoft's tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice."

This, is pretty ridiculous to be honest, It's like saying Nike shouldn't supply their shoes with laces, as it ultimately may reduce consumer choice when it comes to choosing their preferred laces. I can see where you are coming from, but are the EU objecting to it being difficult to remove IE, or the sheer fact that it's pre-installed on the OS? If it's the former, fair enough, I hope they win, but if it's the latter, I hope they have one helluvan argument to beat MS, because the giant that is MS will inevitably win unless the case presented is a particularly potent one.

No it's like saying the Shoes come with unremovable laces made of iron that makes life uncomfortable and actually makes you think all along that really you'd prefer to have bought a pair of Vans. Then Nike claiming that they have to solder them to the shoe as otherwise the shoe wouldn't work properly. Then they'd also have to remake the shoes all shiny like but even less efficient and spend even more time claiming that the laces are an integral part of the shoe. If Nike did that I'd be even happier that I bought my Vans.

 

[Tempscire]

No it's like saying the Shoes come with unremovable laces made of iron that makes life uncomfortable and actually makes you think all along that really you'd prefer to have bought a pair of Vans. Then Nike claiming that they have to solder them to the shoe as otherwise the shoe wouldn't work properly. Then they'd also have to remake the shoes all shiny like but even less efficient and spend even more time claiming that the laces are an integral part of the shoe. If Nike did that I'd be even happier that I bought my Vans.

That could be the best analogy I have ever read. Ever.