Paladin Tanking :(

[Nero3]

Was doing some research and have just come to the conclusion paladin tanking is goin to change immensely... I mean now our talents give us spell power appropriate to our stamina and that means I need a whole re vamp of warrior stam gear *not impressed* Anyone else agree/disagree with me

 

[Zhinrak]

My interpretation of it is that is fundementally going to stay the same. the whole Stam into spell power talent is so paladin tanks wont have to bother so much with spell power gear.

I know that with my paladin getting a balance of tanking gear that had enough Avoidance, Defence rating, Spell damage, Spell hit and normal hit was a pain in the ass.

Its part of blizzards plan to simplify the ammount of gear sets in the game, so this is to make it so paladin and warrior tanks can make equal use out of the exact same gear

 

[T-Bone]

Well I put a LOT of effort into my gear, probably even more than both of you and while I feel that now I am as good as any warrior or Druid it was VERY hard for me to get there. Now that I am here I wish it wouldnt change but it will probably be better in the long run. It is going to be difficult for us to adapt though

 

[Nero3]

Well I put a LOT of effort into my gear, probably even more than both of you

Cheeky lol

But honestly I say you could have. I could have put more in I know that but im happy where I got and how quickly, I had only turned 70 not long before I was in the Haven, and now look I have items from t4/t5/t6 raids But well most of my gear has spell dmg and im 10% over uncrush but find myself lacking hp but if i stack stam on my now already spell dmg heavy gear I find to have as much spell dmg as a badly geared dps caster and me no want that I prob should have foreseen this and rolled on that damn cape >.< haha but I'm lookin forward to the challenges it brings.

But tbh Protloladins FTW

 

[Zaggu]

To be honest, I think the item changes may be quite beneficial as a whole. The part that does worry me is that, in full Naxx kit, the one tank who gets to be uncrittable is a feral Druid, and he gets that out of talents. Blizz says bosses have been toned down to avoid the instagib nature of an unfortunate crit blowing the tank to bits, but it does remain to be seen.

Personally, I hope pallies and druids finally get their chances as full-time MT's, other than being the official AoE / OT, respectively.

 

[Nero3]

Well tbh i think they have that chance right now

I mean look at Tuldur name one boss he hasnt managed to MT I means the guys got talent (you can pay me later), single target tanking is somewhat harder for a paladin than warrior yes but if u put the effort in and experiment around any tanking class can MT. Droods have a great constant TPS over long fights while their burst may not be like a paladin's judgement it is still enough to apply enough threat for any fight so in truth I think any class atm can MT anything. But alot of ppl are ignorant and think warriors are solely the best tanks. I personally disagree thinkin that all 3 classes are great in different ways but,

I don't think I would swap my BElivish looks and magical aoe tanking for any other tanking class

 

[Zaggu]

Oh, but I am not saying that a Pala could NOT be MT. Even a feral had fully fledged magical bosses as its one downside (now solved by the mother bear talent).

What I meant is that, in quite a few fights, the amount of effort and gearing needed for our friend the Pallie to get out there and be as effective as a warrior was grossly disproportionate, and that is just NOT right. Tuldur is indeed a skilled player, yet I don't think it is fair for him to invest 100% of such skill to be ON PAR with a similarly geared yet average warrior, instead of being ahead of the curve. I know what the feeling is from when pitching myself against full magical bosses and managing to take them down - it's really nice on one hand, but then you can't help thinking "yeah, this would have been so much easier on my warrior".

We have quite a few good players here, each on his / her own specialty, and I'm hoping the changes Blizz performed will allow them to shine through without being stuck in a given, prearranged niche. I'm all for that!

 

[Nero3]

Yea that is true...

But I'm hoping (note: haven't looked at warr tanking talents) that with WOTLK warriors will have to work harder for their gear and in turn make a more average tank Yes warriors as tanks are e-z moade I mean they don't have to put in half the effort as others especially gear wise but *prays to blizz* I do hope that will be sorted now that paladins need the exact same gear as spelldmg is no longer needed So maybe warriors will have to fight more for their gears and spots

Note: No warriors were harmed in the making of this post

That is not to say warriors are bad but they just don't need to put in the immense effort to become that good tank i.e MT

 

[Baeleth]

The only thing about the changes that are personally convenient are that A. I have random warrior tanking bits that Ive had to make due with and will now be actually useful, and B. that Sun Eater in my bank will come out to play. All fear the dooom lollipop thingy!

Incidentally, I've regemmed my Cudgel of Consecration into a new healing stick since in 3.0.2 mp5 aside, its better than the Shard of the Virtuous by a fair margin.

 

[Caliopea]

atm im finding that paladins are the full on jesus class of the game, we can do anything in whatever spec we pick.

ret, holy or prot .. dps, tank or heal.. whatever were wearing wherever were going its pretty funny stuff.

be interesting to see how it pans out

 

[T-Bone]

Well I think they got Holy Paladins pretty much right, they just need to buff the other healing classes slightly. Ret has already been hotfixed and I'm sure a few more will follow.

However with Prot I can safely say I am supremely happy with the changes as it means that you don't have to be completely on top of your game for everything tanking related to even rival the most mediocre of warriors. I'm now even a better tank than I was before and I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Caliopea]

aye i plan to go prot once i hit 70 and just tank about instances and get my bearings so im used to whats going on, its been simple enough as ret AND ive been top of the dps list at the same time which has amused me sooo much, it reminds me alot of druids when they tank and its all about the dps aggro.

Paladins are just so much fun right now, and it doesnt look like thats going to change anytime soon, can only be a good thing.

Now the interesting part is how will we hold up against the DK's?

 

[decky101]

Well I think they got Holy Paladins pretty much right, they just need to buff the other healing classes slightly. Ret has already been hotfixed and I'm sure a few more will follow.

However with Prot I can safely say I am supremely happy with the changes as it means that you don't have to be completely on top of your game for everything tanking related to even rival the most mediocre of warriors. I'm now even a better tank than I was before and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Reminds me a lot of the situation shadow priests are now in. In BC, we were always severly gimped DPS wise because of our ridiculously OP utility, so to keep up on damage, we had to work ridiculously hard, and now that we've had a few buffs, we should be a fair bit ahead, considering we've got a huge DPS buff, yet we're still working as hard, so our DPS should be awesome! .

Heres to positive changes to those who needed em most!

Cheers, Decky.

 

[Caliopea]

and shadow priests also got the greatest graphical effect in the game so far with that dispersion thing, never gonna get old watching that

 

[Chumpo]

Im just trying to get over the fact that we (shadow priests) are now a generic, boring, run of the mill damage class instead of having something unique that only we did, making the class different and exciting.

I know whats a great idea! Lets take everything that makes a difference between the classes and get rid of it so you cant tell the difference between mages, locks, priests, ectectect.

I dont care if we do a million times the dps of everyone else, what made us unique has been changed, and i hearterly dislike it. Add that to the fact that i now have to change everything to do with my itemisation, cost hit -> spell dmg -> haste is no longer good means that i wont be bothering with Baldi pve wise till 80 now. I dont have the energy. (And sp pvp is great fun now )

But back to the original topic, yeah, pally tanks look even more effective now, which is nice

*Edit* Dispersion does look cool tho *Edit*

 

[decky101]

and shadow priests also got the greatest graphical effect in the game so far with that dispersion thing, never gonna get old watching that

Must agree, awesome looking spell, though (speaking strictly from a pve point of view) It has very limited uses.

Totally agree with you Chumpo, loved being the "utility whore" with everyone as soon as you joining a raid screaming "quick, gimme primal in my group!" Hell, on the occasion, people quit the raid cuz they wern't getting me in their group =/ DPS is fun, but utility is more fun, the homogenisation annoyed me also, but the problem was: if you were the only shadowpriest in a guild (as I was) there was pretty much a guarenteed raid spot for ya. Gimme back my uniqueness please! If you do blizz, I give you cookies!

Cheers, Decky.

 

[Chumpo]

Must agree, awesome looking spell, though (speaking strictly from a pve point of view) It has very limited uses.

Not really true, it allows for the dropping of some points in the disc tree like medetation that contribute to mana regen. Every 3 mins being able to get 36% of your mana back can be very handy. 6 seconds -> 36% mana = a good investment. But i guess its up to play style and taste.

 

[lawn]

Yea that is true...

But I'm hoping (note: haven't looked at warr tanking talents) that with WOTLK warriors will have to work harder for their gear and in turn make a more average tank Yes warriors as tanks are e-z moade I mean they don't have to put in half the effort as others especially gear wise but *prays to blizz* I do hope that will be sorted now that paladins need the exact same gear as spelldmg is no longer needed So maybe warriors will have to fight more for their gears and spots

Note: No warriors were harmed in the making of this post

That is not to say warriors are bad but they just don't need to put in the immense effort to become that good tank i.e MT

Don't belittle my skills as a tank just cause I play a warrior. Yes we're friggin awesome at damage mitigation and single mob tanking, but I doubt no warrior had multimob tanking abilities pre-patch to match that of a paladin. I worked hard to be able to run instances/heroics without CC and maintain threat. I was/am a friggin awesome tank and it wasn't just because I played a warrior.

Incase anyone's wondering what a shamen knows about tanking, Bombadier was my main for 2years.

 

[decky101]

From what I've heard so far Chumpo, Meditation is still needed for sure, and that we're having a few mana problems at this time (unless you've experienced otherwise mate, please tell! ) But from a min/maxing point of view, take a fight to be 4 minutes long, and you use dispersion twice during this, removing you from the fight for 12 seconds in total, now, discounting the 35-40% damage from our dots that will continue, that's a loss of 60-65% damage for 12 seconds during the fight, and if you're doing 3k damage, that's a loss of 22500 damage (average) over the course of a 4 minute, twice used dispersion fight or around a 3% loss in dps .

This of course, is from a min/max point of view and, of course, you have the pros that you can nuke for longer, you look awesome while doing it , and from what I hear it can also be useful in fights of large AOE spike damage.

It's quite difficult for Blizz to get the balance, they've already said that dispersion is limited for PvE, but they don't plan on changing it, sure, it's not a DPS increase, but not every top talent has to augment damage, so it's a pretty cool spell nonetheless.

Cheers, Decky.

EDIT. P.S. Sorry for hijacking this thread Positive changes to make Palas even more capable tanks, ftw!

 

[Chumpo]

The problem is the Decky, how many fights in the game are just a constant dps fight, with no point at which you have to move or stop for a few seconds? At first thought you think a lot but then you think about it and in most boss fights there are times which you have to move/stop/do a cartwheel. This is the time to use dispersion as it has no effects on movement ect.

And at the minute nearly EVERY class has mana issues in long fights, till wrath. So thats a moot point.

Also Medetation is only as good as 30% of your mana regen. So if your mana regen isnt good then Med wont be good, where as Dispersion is a constant 32% of your mana back, on demand.

Not everything in the game is as straight forward as the min-maxing theories that some people follow. WoW is the most circumstantial game that i have ever played and the same theories and figures cannot be applied to every situation and fight.

Baldi.