Political Correctness going to far?

[DocBot]

Re: Political Correctness going too far?

I realise I was a bit fuzze in my previous reply, forgetting a "not" among other things, so: what I meant was that even if we assume (wrongfully) that the kids liked it, it's still not against school rules. You're stuck on discussing whether they were right to not invite them or not; that's not in question. The _way_ they didn't invite them was against school rules (that stated that if you're going to do something nice to a larger amount of people, be it invite them to a party, give them a snack or whatever - you have to do it to everyone in class. You know the old "did you bring enough for everybody" argument. Not that strange).

 

[DocBot]

Re: Political Correctness going too far?

However I still feel the entire situation could have been avoided by a more diplomatic move by the teacher.

The boy handed out his birthday invitations during class-time and when the teacher spotted that two children had not received one the invitations were confiscated.

They did get them back. I fail to see how this was undiplomatic. The boy who handed out the invitations is old enough to realise the subtext of what he was doing (and, probably, had the malicious intent that the rules were there to hinder).

 

[Nanor]

Re: Political Correctness going too far?

I see what you mean but I do think that such action should have been taken if the pupil explicitly told the teacher he was being bullied. The children not invited may not have wanted an invite and if they got one it could have sparked confrontation.

Some action should have been taken, like perhaps the teacher talking to the parents of the children, but taking invitations was far too out of line.

 

[Dragon]

Tbh I don't see a point in the teachers reaction. Wether or not he had distributed the invitations in class, in the end, at the boys party, everyone would have noticed that all children from the class were there, except those two. And what should he have done else? He's an eight year old boy, he can't just drive across town one afternoon and throw them in the mailboxes. The only possibility for him to distribute the invitations is to do it in school. (Assuming not all of the children are living in the same street) And if he doesn't like those two boys he doesn't invite them, you obviously can't force him to do otherwise.

 

[DocBot]

against.... the.... rules...

 

[Nanor]

against.... the.... rules...

I don't quite understand you DocBot.

 

[thatbloke]

How is an 8 year old kid supposed to understand these rules and the reasons behind them correctly?

The whole cause of this outrage is entirely down the the teacher over-reacting.

The teacher could quite easily have pulled the boy aside after the lesson and dealt with the matter in a much more discreet matter, instead it's become a national (international?) scandal.

You are forgetting that although a school rule has perhaps been broken, the kid didn't set out to intentionally break this rule, hell maybe he didn't even know it or understand it...

This is an issue that has been blown WAAAAAAAY out of proportion by the whole political correctness issues that are plagueing the world at the moment.

 

[DocBot]

Straw men.

You guys seem to think this teacher somehow acted on his own, improvising as he went. Such was not the case. There were rules, specific to this type of situation, already in place.

So I guess what I'm saying is it feels like some of you just like to wave your arms around and gnash your teeth or whatever, in some sort of righteous indignitaion type thing, rather than actually read up on the situation. And as such creating an imaginary situation that you can shout at. See my earlier attempts to get you to not misconstrue my replies.

So instead of making a long reply, I was just pointing out (again), that the basis of dragons reply was rather thin, as he was talking about the teacher and how he should have reacted in some other way, where indeed the he only acted in the way that was postulated by his contract (I.e. according to school rules).

You want to discuss? Fine - but please make it about something real, instead of a straw man. In this case I guess it would be the school rules.

Please, go ahead.

 

[Gopha]

Its very well breaking the rules of a school, but taking it to court, to be honest that just ridiculous. Surely its breaking human rights telling someone what to do (in this case telling you who to invite to your party)?

 

[DocBot]

Still straw men, I'm afraid.

A) It was the father of the boy who held the party that took it to court, and
B) They didn't say who he could invite, only that he couldn't invite them during class (as he chose to exclude a few).

 

[waterproofbob]

I've just been reading up a bit more on the rules and found

The school, in Lund, southern Sweden, argues that if invitations are handed out on school premises, which are public areas, it has an obligation to ensure that there is no discrimination. It is irrelevant that the party will be held in a private household.

So the child isn't allowed to hand out invitations on the school site at all. I personally think this rule is nuts. The two children uninvited one was apparently generally unpleasant and the other hadn't invited the birthday boy to his party. Where should the child hand these out. I know from my time at school, it would have been an impossibility to hand out invites to a birthday party outside school to everyone I'd want to come. I think this is taking restricting the right of the child to celebrate their birthday as they'd like to and massively over complicating what should be a really happy day.

“It is their duty to reject any forms of insulting behaviour. To eliminate individual children from parties is not acceptable.”

That is the quote from a childs Obudsman, she also makes the point that she is trying to remove collective punishment from schools arguing that such a thing would not be accepted in an adult work place. However later in the article they make the point that he'll have to wait until he is 18 (leaves school) before he can choose who he wants to invite without offending someone. So for example if he were to be working in an office when he is 18 does his boss have the right to confiscate invites to his party then. They are fighting to give children the same rights as adults in their freedom and decision making and they way they able to challenge and ask questions. Yet in the very enviroment where they are trying to introduce this balance and equality with adults they are taking away a basic freedom of choice.

I agree with in the rules the teacher acted accurately, I still feel it could have been dealt with better and I still think that ruling is completely mad. All I can say is I'm glad I live in a country that allows me not to invite the guy who will shoot a sticky dart at me with my own gun. Of course I did invite him, but at least if I'd been less of an idiot as a kid I'd of had the oppertunity not to invite him.

 

[DocBot]

First of all, let me make one thing clear - this is not anything regulated in any law. It's the school's rules and as such has nothing to do with the country the school is situated in. Second, let me apologise in advance for my reply that's going to be a bit acidic. It's meant to be a little provocative, but not personal so please don't take it as such. Ready polemics!

When it comes to the actual handing out of invites - I don't know how your post office works, but here in Sweden they tend to deliver the mail. I'm happy to live in a country where I don't have to run around hand-delivering invites to everyone I want to come to my party. There's also telephone. Or he could have handed them out after school. Or whatever. There are lots of options, granted one easy one is handing them out in class.

And - again - if the invites would have been "discrimination-free" (and please don't make this into a silly argument about what that would REALLY mean, we know what it would mean in this context) he would have been well in his right, according to school rules, to hand them out during class.

Also, this sort of confiscation would never happen after ninth grade, and I'm fairly sure it wouldn't happen after 6th grade either. So the "when he's 18" thing is rather silly, seen from anything but a purely theoretical viewpoint.

And yes, they are taking a way a basic freedom of choice, the choice to discriminate. Oh the poor kids!

On freedom of choice and countries, by the way - I hear in your country you're generally not allowed to wear the clothes you want in most schools? I'm sure there are other rules as well...

Let's talk about your last (straw man) argument - noone's saying he can't invite or not invite whoever he wants to his party.

Oh and let's talk about your second-to-last (again, straw man) argument - hey, it's the same. Noone's taking away his choice to invite or not invite whoever he wants.

The only actual, existing, issue here is whether he should be allowed to hand out his invites in class, even if not everyone is invited. And that "basic" choice is taken away from him. Fine. Tell me again why this is more or less a human right? "No one should be forced to use the postal service! It's disgraceful! And telephones? Don't you know they cause cancer? No, we must protect this childs right of manual delivery during class hours!"

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

Having read most of this thread, there are a few things i dont get, kids have birthdays, they have parties, they invite whoever they want to, i fail to see how it is bullying when one gives, forsake of a word, a "gift" of an invite to all but 2 ppl, when it clearly says in the article that he didnt want to and had good(for an 8 yr old) reason not to.

And besides if it was bullying, show me how an 8 year old could have done it differently.


EDIT: and also while i read nearly all of the thread, whats Political Correctness got to do with it?

I've just been reading up a bit more on the rules and found
So the child isn't allowed to hand out invitations on the school site at all. I personally think this rule is nuts.

So, no chrismas cards either, or if you give out anything to anyone its all or nothing?

 

[Nanor]

"Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term used to describe language, ideas, policies, or behavior seen as seeking to minimize offense to racial, cultural, or other identity groups. ... "

In this case everyone must get an invite regardless of race, colour, creed or whether you like them or not.

When it comes to the actual handing out of invites - I don't know how your post office works, but here in Sweden they tend to deliver the mail. I'm happy to live in a country where I don't have to run around hand-delivering invites to everyone I want to come to my party. There's also telephone. Or he could have handed them out after school. Or whatever. There are lots of options, granted one easy one is handing them out in class.

The easy one? Do you know how hard it would be to get everyone's address? Their phone number? What if he asked for the people's address during class but didn't ask the guys he didn't like? DISCRIMINATION! And you don't know how hard it is to catch children once school has ended.

Killer put it rightly when he said it's a gift. Since no one in the class room is to be left out shouldn't the teacher have gotten an invite?

 

[Dragon]

(Don't take my following post too serious)

Well ... if it really is against those ominous rules, herewith I demand that ANY conversation in class is forbidden, if not everyone is taken in. Especially if meetings of friends after school are the topic. So ... either you meet everyone after class or no one! Any other solution is discrimination and forbidden by the school's rules! And especially the "But I want to do it with just one (or maybe more) friend(s) of mine"-excuse is not allowed.

 

[DocBot]

Everyone usually gets a list of names and numbers to all their classmates. Adresses are publically listed, on the web as well as in the phone book.

When it comes to the bullying, maybe we have different definitions of the word... when someone is left out by all the others in class, they are being bullied. Now if that person is an asshole (and, indeed the kid had good reason not to invite these two), perhaps in this case it's not. But the principle must stand either way. The rules are clear, they are there to prevent bullying. I know of a few times they would have been good to have in my old schools.

Perhaps you didn't see my specific request not to get silly over the particular extent of fairness?

 

[DocBot]

Humour aside - if he only invited 1 or 2 people this wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[Nanor]

Humour aside - if he only invited 1 or 2 people this wouldn't have been an issue.

But the principle must stand either way.

I'm confused...

 

[DocBot]

I'm confused...

Yes. Let me quote myself (sort of) from an earlier post:

Can you not see the difference between inviting 28 out of 30 people, and inviting 28 out of 300?

 

[Dragon]

I'm confused...

And this is exactly what I wanted to point out.

Yes. Let me quote myself (sort of) from an earlier post:

Can you not see the difference between inviting 28 out of 30 people, and inviting 28 out of 300?

not if we are talking about a rule that is supposed to apply in every case. And this is exactly what school rules are made for, aren't they?