Raiding 101: The word of Soundwave

[Pwnstar]

The following is for those ranked Trial Raider and above (Or those with the intent of becoming a raider)

Some clarification is in order. Take this as gospel.

Progression
Due to this expansion having 3 entry level raids we have bosses of varying difficulty spread throughout Azeroth, due to this we will be jumping from raid to raid gearing up rather than clearing one at time. The first bosses will be in this following order...

Magmaw (BWD)
Omnitron defence council (BWD)
Halfus Wyrmbreaker (BoT)
Valion and Therona (BoT)
Maloriak (BWD)
Conclave of the winds (WINDS)

Seconds
As you're hopefully all aware i'm your raid leader (hi!) However due to not being omnipresent (yet) i will not always be available to lead you to your doom/collection of phat loots. When this is the case the leading of the raid will fall to a combination of...

Arithidrimme
Sasser
Razzak
Zhinrak

Once it is established who is your RL for the evening, be aware they will be aware of the plans and tactics (As you all should be) and everything they say should be taken as if it was said by me.

What is expected of you?
As raiders you are all expected to know your tactics for the bosses we intend to fight that night, alongside this preliminary list and the hundreds of videos floating about there is no excuse not to.

Know your class, know the optimal spec and gearing and how to use it to its fullest. (If you need any help with that ask me or an officer, you know who the big hitters are. Find out how to match/beat them)

Consumables, consumables, consumables. We raid for three hours a night, if you're coming to a raid bring enough of the correct flasks and correct +90 buff food for your class, the guild bank has some stocks available and will be available to those raiders that don't have the time to get their own at sensible AH prices. Again, if you don't know your optimal buff food, why? And ask any of the officers.

Veterans will be expected to hold up to the same standards as the Raiders in order to raid; the rank in and of itself doesn't instantly denote worthiness for a raid spot.

Final words
I will be monitoring players abilities and progress, if you're doing badly and theres a new up and comer breaking records... Don't be surprised if you're replaced, this is a raiding team. There are people clawing for your positions all the time... Earn them.

Fin

 

[Enya]

Some very serious lines have been drawn.

 

[Corenith]

Some clarification is in order. Take this as gospel.

And lo, did Soundwave say 'do better' and it was good.

Nice post, will be cool to see this put into action.

 

[Enya]

A question:

Is this the way we can expect that The Haven is going to do its raiding?

Also why the change. We did well in Wrath (And yes I know that people consider it to be an easy/easiest expansion) But still we did great. And yes we were not server 1st at anything, not even by a long shot. And last time I checked we where not racing to the finish line? If we did, in that case we did a piss poor job. But myself I do not care about racing to the finish line and I also know that there are other guildies that think like I do.
Myself I downed LK for the 1st time with the guild 2week prior to Cata and it felt great.
And so I am standing here saying that we did great. As a guild!

And since when has The Haven become a raiding guild. Yes we are a guild that raids but we are not a raiding guild.
All this talk about raid teams and people looking after how well others are playing the game and other "hardcore" talk.
All of that starts to smell like a raiding guild.

This talk about getting our asses in shape and taking raiding more seriously than before is a noble idea. But still we are The Haven and a lot of people have come to like and understand that.
What we do best is make progress at our own curious rate and grind those few bosses over and over again until, eventually we get a burst of new bosses down and start grinding the new bosses.

A shame really. I did like the way of raiding in WotLK. We did clear all of the raid content. (one or two bosses grossly over-geared but who cares)
And so, the way of rogue is no more.

Myself. I think I can live with this change. I just hope that if someone out there has something to say about this change (either positive or negative) speak your name and be forever heard.

And now lets wait, and hope for the best. Whatever that best may be.

 

[Dr Drae]

I hope this is the way we can expect The Haven to do our raiding, to be honest. This is saying "the raiding aspect of the guild is gonna shape up".

I wasn't around for BC, but from what I hear, we were good. I'm not attributing us not being that anymore to anything more than LK, and maybe some relaxation on the raiding front, but looking at our peformance, I don't think we're that anymore.

If you're going to use a Wowwiki definition for raiding guild, then go ahead, we know we're not that. But that doesn't mean that the portion of us that is trying to make progress in raiding shouldn't really make their best efforts; that's what this talk about getting our asses in shape is all about.

I'm pretty sure I can live with the way this works, even though I know I'm one of the people that needs to get their 'ass in shape' (my raid attendance is poor for starters, but I know the reasons behind that), because once I do get to the point where I'm raiding properly, I know for a sure I've got a guild that'll help me into it (and by that, I do not mean mollycoddle me through bosses, but help me achieve my maximum potential).

All in all, a good post imo. Informative, sets a standard. It's all there.

 

[Zooggy]

Hoy,

And since when has The Haven become a raiding guild. Yes we are a guild that raids but we are not a raiding guild.
All this talk about raid teams and people looking after how well others are playing the game and other "hardcore" talk.
All of that starts to smell like a raiding guild.

The following is for those ranked Trial Raider and above (Or those with the intent of becoming a raider)

Meaning, it applies to the raiding team only, not to the whole of the guild. The Haven is not and (if I have any say in it) never will be a raiding guild. However, the raiding team is, well, a raiding team, not just a team that raids...

Anyway, give it a failr chance. I know there's a few people that are eyeing it with suspicion, but I also know there's a fair few folk that quite welcome this new direction. Let's see the fruit on the tree before we start chopping at the trunk, ey?

Cheers,
J.

 

[Enya]

Anyway, give it a failr chance. I know there's a few people that are eyeing it with suspicion, but I also know there's a fair few folk that quite welcome this new direction. Let's see the fruit on the tree before we start chopping at the trunk, ey?
.

Yes. Lets all give it a fair chance.
And yes there are few people that are eying it with suspicion. Like myself.
These somewhat sensitive (or whatever you want to call it) topics always cause some drama and problems. In some cases people have even left the guild. (I consider that being a complete and utter failure if good hard working people leave the guild because of drama) So hopefully it will not come to that.

And yes, there are few folk that quite welcome this new direction. Like myself.
I can imagine myself raiding with a "fixed" team. Fine works with me. But what about the little guy that we left out in the cold. Not quite up for the challenge or whatever the reason being for not inviting that person to raid.
Have we become that guild? Hope not. And hope we never will.

Maybe I am this hopeless idealist. But then again. I have heard this "elitist" and "hardcore" talk before. You know, stuff comes and goes.

-All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again

 

[Belfa]

Like the post but wondering do we apply for trial raider the same way we did in WOTLK or?

 

[Huung]

Like the post but wondering do we apply for trial raider the same way we did in WOTLK or?

Yup, exactly the same.

 

[Zooggy]

Hoy,

Enya, apologies for the line-by-line quoting, but, a few things:

1)

there are few people that are eying it with suspicion. Like myself.

[...]

And yes, there are few folk that quite welcome this new direction. Like myself.

. That is all.

2)

I can imagine myself raiding with a "fixed" team.

No, the raiding team is not fixed. Otherwise, I'd be pretty much screwed, coming from a two-week lag from having gotten the expansion for christmas. But, there is a bar. If, as a player, you're underperforming, you won't be on the team. Underperforming doesn't mean you're clocking in at 5% lower DPS than that other guy. It means either a significantly lower number, or, an inability to cope with the tactics or to not stand in the fire or whatnot.

3)

But what about the little guy that we left out in the cold. Not quite up for the challenge or whatever the reason being for not inviting that person to raid.

What people need to understand is that not being quite up for the challenge is the one reason that will keep you out of the team. There won't be a different "whatever the reason".

Another significant issue is that, hopefully, there won't be an "out in the cold". The A-Team progression raids won't be the only guild raids. There will be alternatives. Everyone will be able to play, and practice and improve, or at least, see some content. (Think TBC's regular Kharazan alt/gearing runs.) The stakes won't be as high, but for those that aren't quite up to the A-Team challenge, they are likely to still be fun.

Lastly, 4)

Yes. Lets all give it a fair chance.

[...]

Maybe I am this hopeless idealist. But then again. I have heard this "elitist" and "hardcore" talk before. You know, stuff comes and goes.

-All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again

These bits right here have earned you a cookie.

Cheers,
J.

 

[Zhinrak]

A comment i so rarely ever come out with, that this may have to be documented, but i believe Zooggy is 100% right. Yes Enya there are some changes, but these are not big changes. We are NOT suddenly going to start removing people from the guild or banning people from raiding.

In the grand scheme of things the guild is staying the same, were just taking raiding more seriously. Don't get me wrong the fact we killed the Lich King is nice and raiding during WoTLK worked alright, but a number of our more 'hardcore' players as you might call them, felt that the raiding in the guild was not as fast and progressed as it could have been or should have been. It was this reason a number of these players left the guild and even the game, myself included.

I have heard your concerns a number of times before, mainly in TBC when we first started to raid more frequently and i can safely say that these concerns are mostly unnecessary.

To summarize we are taking progression raids more seriously. People who have proven themselves are those ranked at raider and it will be these people primarily chosen for progression raids, others who want to raid and have the gear will be ranked as trial. Once we have enough level 85's in the guild i am more than positive that we will have more than just progression raid nights, we will likely have alternative runs on Mondays and Tuesdays like we always have where people who didn't get into the progression raids will have a chance to raid.

 

[Sabbath]

About this so called A-team are these the ones that only raid everyweek because it seems like the same people are raiding for the last two weeks where there are other people just as geared and skilled that hasn't raided once that want to, i mean even the trial raiders how are they going to show they are able to handle the raids when not even chosen?

 

[Sasser]

About this so called A-team are these the ones that only raid everyweek because it seems like the same people are raiding for the last two weeks

Nope. A total of 18 players attended the three raids we ran in Cataclysm so far. Please don't start an A-Team discussion before it is actually an issue.

there are other people just as geared and skilled that hasn't raided once that want to, i mean even the trial raiders how are they going to show they are able to handle the raids when not even chosen?

See above. There has been and there will be fluctuation. Admittedly, we will rely on certain people more when it comes to downing new bosses, but even who they are may change over time.

There are people clawing for your positions all the time... Earn them.

Works both ways by the way.

 

[Silk]

As usual my reply will be more personal than generic

OP is made with good intentions and I agree with most (if not all) of what is said. Especially the consumables part!

However whilst on the subject of raiding, from my own little world; It seems made a lot of enemies (apparently) the last time I voiced an opinion on the whole A-team thing. I don't think people realised back then that due to not needing another tank, I was pretty much excluded from the raids I needed (i.e. the challenging content ones or A team or whatever) and so of course I was going to be upset. Hi. I r human.

I was just starting to show you what I could do, I remember a couple of silly mistakes but overall feedback was positive. I was be undergeared compared to the other tanks, due to at the time, being a relatively new raider. So bad timing really. And can't be helped that you didn't need an extra tank.. but I did work long and hard to get geared high enough in gear that's useless out of raids, so meh.

So that was then, and that was why I stopped raiding and quit wow. And this is now.

Honestly nowadays I have no idea where I stand.. I want to raid. Yet I don't want to get all excited or get my hopes up about raiding again only to not even be given a chance because wasn't a raider in wotlk thus not part of an existing team, or I'm because generally disliked due to being opinionated on the forums, or because one time on TS I might have been drunk and argumentative/loud/annoying (not that I remember!).

Then again I know you're short on tanks so maybe I'd be welcome.

I'm not worried about being unable to handle or learn new content (heck I learnt a couple of valuable lessons from Ari on my first HC the other day), but I do expect people to appreciate I'd start with lower end gear (ilev 341 at the mo) and make human mistakes from time to time. I'm not sure if we're saying we expect people to be perfect, or we're just saying the absolute worse players are the ones who won't be raiding (either from a natural inability to stay out of the fire or downright laziness in doing at least half the DPS they are capable with current class/spec/gear - and on more than one occasion).

Wow that was long and mashed up. What am I saying. I think I'm saying I'll come back to raiding, as long as I'm wanted / needed / there's space, and that I hope people can understand what happened in the past and cut me a little slack. And the reason I've been quiet / missing in the haven is 'cos nobody loves me.

 

[Elincia]

Then again I know you're short on tanks so maybe I'd be welcome.

This, just give it a go I do think we have only one tank sign up for tomorrow, so sign up and be sure you're geared.


@Woogle's comment: A lot of people left the game or the guild. Some of them returned to us and these are the people that really like the changes. I don't want to attack/insult anyone with my next comment just so you know, but:
Don't leave this time, it will piss a lot of people off, you so called hardcore raiders are pushing a new culture to this guild, a culture that is different then the one we so called casual players made in the last part of WotLK. Of course we don't like these changes.

I liked the way we raided in WotLK a lot. And I agree with Enya more then with anyone else in this thread. I also would like to make clear that there is a difference in Enya and me. I sense in Enya's post a fear of not getting picked for raids anymore, or picked less. I don't have that fear, I think it's safe to say I am one of the better healers in this guild. Still I am not happy about all of these changes. I have a lot of questions that are still not answered and they only will be answered once I see how we raid. I will give this a fair chance and I am sure Pirate will lead raids excellent, I am sure we will down bosses quicker and I am sure people under Pirates leading will improve much more then under Sasser leadership. I am not sure about the consequences and the prize we, as a community of so called hardcore raiders and so called casual players, are going to pay for these changes.

Time will tell

 

[Pwnstar]

Edited: due to derp

...we're just saying the absolute worse players are the ones who won't be raiding (either from a natural inability to stay out of the fire or downright laziness in doing at least half the DPS they are capable with current class/spec/gear - and on more than one occasion).

Correct.

 

[Silk]

Explain yourself...

Not much to say, just that I've always been a strong believer in buffing yourself as much as possible for raids. Have always done it. Don't understand why anyone wouldn't.

 

[Pwnstar]

Wait a second, actually reread the post... I thought you said "Disagree with", i can't brain today, i has the dumb.

 

[Silk]

Wait a second, actually reread the post... I thought you said "Disagree with", i can't brain today, i has the dumb.

haha, I know the feeling

 

[Enya]

I do like the idea that we are going to take raiding more seriously. And that there are still going to be those more non-serious raids after we got more people up to 85.

Actually this talk about teams got me thinking.
Why not different teams (Team A,B and C....) that raid on same or different days.
And all these ideas above sound ok.

The only thing I fear a little bit is. Can we as a guild handle it?
Only time can tell...

And so I leave the matter at hand to the capable hands of you officers. I trust that we can make to most of it!