Real Names: Don't Use Them (discussion)

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LynxGB

Guest
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Ronin are you really that bored? Names - Just Names - OMG that person is called Fred Bloggs - Hey all I am fred bloggs whats my password - lol - I don't mean to cause offence or break rules - but I believe as a cummunity we should be allowed to do as we like within certain respect.
Unless of course the person you are naming wishes to remain "secret".

People ask my name day in day out where I work, dosnt mean some idiots walking around calling himself me?

Obviously if I listed my addy and my name and other things then yeah my fault for being stupid - but "whats in a name".
 

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Obviously there is scope here for using someone's real name instead of their handle, assuming that that person does not mind it. There are a couple of people here that use my real name... this is something that I am not bothered about. If I wanted it to stop I would tell the people involved to stop it. I understand the concerns being expressed here, and I believe that these are more like guidelines (i.e. voluntary) than rules... as long as people do not wish them to become rules or there becomes a need to enforce them.

If this becomes a problem for people, obviously action needs to be taken. But, as Lynx says, a name is a name. It is something that we use to identify ourselves by. Loki (Secord in WoW) made a valid point on Teamspeak last night: it kinda creeps him out calling him by a name other than his real name (i.e. calling him Loki or Secord instead of his real name when talking to him over TS). So for some people, this is actually the complete opposite!

That's my $0.02.
 

Wraith

Active Member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Lynx, if I remember correctly, identity theft was the fastest growing crime last year. Why make it any easier for the scum who do this when it's just as easy to use someones net-handle? I admit that people aren't going to be able to get a huge amount from "John" or "Chris" or "Carla", but these people are quite patient and able to piece together lots of little details into a complete picture.

If I were to give an analogy it would be something like "why send cash through the post when you could write a cheque?" Sending cash could easily get to the intended recipient, but a cheque is much more secure.

Wraith
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

LynxGB said:
Ronin are you really that bored?

Nope. It's part of my job to look out for this community. I'm an Admin that gives a shit, if you will (clearly not implying that the other Admins here don't give a shit, but in some places the Admin teams seem to just let whatever happens happen).

If you give away your own information then, well, that's your look out; this was just FYI. However, people keep using other people's real names and that's the main thrust of my post.
 
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LynxGB

Guest
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

fair enough on the guidlines and thanks for looking out for us Ronin.

In reply to Wraith - lol - Are they going to sit ther and go well I reckon Adam might post his Account number and home address up in a minute? lol - Think not - So they get my name and they get my addy and steal my identity, so I get arrested - excellent - lol - Makes a good excuse for a bit of R & R - lol - but you have to be really dumb to let some suposed clever clogs get all the info they need about you!

And the biggest crime in my eyes is Political Correctnes!
 

Pestcontrol

In Cryo Sleep
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Great, an admin takes some time to write up a good post with good advice including a personal account, and the response is "are you bored". People should ask themselves "am i getting the point of this post" before asking themselves "could the poster be bored". Because the answer to the latter question is most likely: No.

Your true name and other personal info on the web can be used against you in many ways, some imaginable and many unimaginable. It's a precaution, a safety measure.

Youth is at a greater risk here as there is a greater chance of internet conflicts escalating to real life or resulting in slander campaigns, threats, etc.

Most of the time, you can give out your name and personal info and nothing will go wrong. When it does go wrong however, you will regret it.
 

Wraith

Active Member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

LynxGB said:
fair enough on the guidlines and thanks for looking out for us Ronin.

In reply to Wraith - lol - Are they going to sit ther and go well I reckon Adam might post his Account number and home address up in a minute? lol - Think not - So they get my name and they get my addy and steal my identity, so I get arrested - excellent - lol - Makes a good excuse for a bit of R & R - lol - but you have to be really dumb to let some suposed clever clogs get all the info they need about you!

And the biggest crime in my eyes is Political Correctnes!

No I don't think they're just going to sit and wait for people to post up their account number. What I'm saying is why give out personal info of any sort (especially other peoples) when you have a perfectly easy alternative. And lets face it, a net-handle is a persons name in effect. If I'm on teamspeak and someone asks "Wraith" a question, I will answer them. This can also spill over into real life as well. For example, a while ago I met Piacular in person for the first time, and he spent the whole time calling me Wraith instead of my real name.

On your other point about people being dumb if they let people get their details, that is not necessarily true. Some scams are now very well documented and widely known, but others are not. And as people become more and more aware of these types of fraud, the fraudsters become more and more sneaky in response. I work as an accountant and in the last year alone I've seen about 15 of our clients being taken in by fraud, some of whom have been to Oxford or Cambridge university. (BTW I realise that "book smarts" is not the same as "street smart", but just making the point that they aren't "dumb")

All it takes sometimes is one lapse in judgement or concentration and things can go horribly wrong. The good news is that if you're vigilant you can avoid becoming a victim of this, but it does require being careful.

Wraith
 
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LynxGB

Guest
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

I can see all the you have points made, yes, but at the end of the day are we being "banned" from using real names?
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Hmm..

I can't see anyone being in serious danger from handing out their name. I'm not an expert on this, but I fail to see nonetheless. For example, when playing Battlefield 2 with Piacular and PhatBambi, Bambi on occasion calls Pia by his real name (I shall leave it out for obvious reasons), and I'm yet to hear of Pia having anything happen to him.

But then ofcourse, I've never worked for an ISP or anything were I might encounter such things. But I'm guessing, that people who have had credit stolen etc. have given out a lot more than their name..
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

LynxGB said:
are we being "banned" from using real names?

No, I'm not banning you from using real names. Not yet, at least.

But you may not use my real name, which I can ban you from doing, even just as a user. It's available here and there already, but why proliferate?
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Nanor said:
I can't see anyone being in serious danger from handing out their name.

My real name has been presented, on and off, on the Net for over a decade. Thus far, I've not been badly hurt by that, though I've had some people claiming to be me in order to access to this or that server. The more information they have about me the easier it is to convince whoever they are talking to that they really are me. I have access to various servers, sometimes high levels of access. The very simplest danger that my real name presents is the possibility that they can use it to convince someone else that they are really me, get my password reset, intercept my email (via, say, DNS-faking or other tricks) and use my access to screw up a server. And that's the simplest of the real dangers (ignoring spamming as being ubiquitous regardless).

This is a game of putting yourself at risk or not. When I started on the Net it was a fledgling thing populated mostly by academics. It took only a year or two for it to be filled with pr0n sites. Then came the scams, the identity thieves, the script-kiddies... if you never get hurt by them then great! But for the sake of a name, which you could choose to keep anonymous almost universally, online, why put yourself at risk?

With your real name I can probably find your home address and telephone number. In fact, for you, Nanor, that might be troublesome. However, for Lynx, it'd be easier -- electoral register (old ones, given that they now offer an "opt out" for published details). Got a domain? Did you remember to opt out making your details public? No? I've got your home address and phone number again. All I need is your date of birth and a stab at your mother's maiden name and I've got a shot at your bank accounts.

I'm not kidding about or making this up. I say again, why put yourself at risk? Doubly so, why put others at risk, just over their real name?

Your net-handle is your shield from all this crap. The Internet is a brutal and hostile environment, so much so that I can actually see where these censorship groups are coming from (even though I don't agree with them). Protect yourself. Protect each other. Stay anonymous.
 

gringotsgoblin

In Cryo Sleep
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Wraith said:
Lynx, if I remember correctly, identity theft was the fastest growing crime last year. Why make it any easier for the scum who do this when it's just as easy to use someones net-handle? I admit that people aren't going to be able to get a huge amount from "John" or "Chris" or "Carla", but these people are quite patient and able to piece together lots of little details into a complete picture.

If I were to give an analogy it would be something like "why send cash through the post when you could write a cheque?" Sending cash could easily get to the intended recipient, but a cheque is much more secure.

Wraith

Most identity thefts occur from information that is thrown away. If you pay for a hotel room and the receipts are thrown out it can lead to identity fraud. Thousands of members of the RMT union were victims of Identity Fraud - presumably someone hacked the IT system.

Given that the only way to make money at this is to commit fraud in bulk, I think giving out your name to someone on TS is fairly safe. No worse than someone overhearing your name in the pub - and if they see you in a pub at least they have a vague clue about where you live.

If someone is going to come onto havenet and try and steal my identity then I'm not going to be able to stop them. My msn address is fairly public. Most people are on myspace or similar. Therefore I think referring to each other by name, especially only first name is not a danger in the slightest.
 

Nanor

Well-Known Member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Ronin Storm said:
My real name has been presented, on and off, on the Net for over a decade. Thus far, I've not been badly hurt by that, though I've had some people claiming to be me in order to access to this or that server. The more information they have about me the easier it is to convince whoever they are talking to that they really are me. I have access to various servers, sometimes high levels of access. The very simplest danger that my real name presents is the possibility that they can use it to convince someone else that they are really me, get my password reset, intercept my email (via, say, DNS-faking or other tricks) and use my access to screw up a server. And that's the simplest of the real dangers (ignoring spamming as being ubiquitous regardless).

This is a game of putting yourself at risk or not. When I started on the Net it was a fledgling thing populated mostly by academics. It took only a year or two for it to be filled with pr0n sites. Then came the scams, the identity thieves, the script-kiddies... if you never get hurt by them then great! But for the sake of a name, which you could choose to keep anonymous almost universally, online, why put yourself at risk?

With your real name I can probably find your home address and telephone number. In fact, for you, Nanor, that might be troublesome. However, for Lynx, it'd be easier -- electoral register (old ones, given that they now offer an "opt out" for published details). Got a domain? Did you remember to opt out making your details public? No? I've got your home address and phone number again. All I need is your date of birth and a stab at your mother's maiden name and I've got a shot at your bank accounts.

I'm not kidding about or making this up. I say again, why put yourself at risk? Doubly so, why put others at risk, just over their real name?

Your net-handle is your shield from all this crap. The Internet is a brutal and hostile environment, so much so that I can actually see where these censorship groups are coming from (even though I don't agree with them). Protect yourself. Protect each other. Stay anonymous.


Ahh, I see. But surely you'd need to put your entire name? Now, many people on THN know my real name, and if a pretender gets my name of a THN member through deception, he's going to have to file through hundreds upon thousands of people matching my name. So, is it alright if we just put our christian names? Surely we're not at risk then? :eek:
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Nanor said:
So, is it alright if we just put our christian names? Surely we're not at risk then?

Your choice. Do what you will with your own name. Just don't assume it's okay to do the same with others'.
 

Macca

Member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

I think that all Ronin is saying is why take the chance (even if it is 1 in 1,000,000) when you can just as easily use there net handle.

I can see both the arguments and I do call "Safety" by his real name quite a lot on TS just because that is what I call him off the internet. However I certainly would not want him to get into some sort of trouble through "Identity Theft".

It is most probably pretty harmless if you splurt it out just through slip of the tounge, but the main point RS and others are making is that there is no need to use it regularly, why put yourself in that 0.00001% chance where identity theft could occur.

Intrestingly enough This has been the case with Inselkampf accounts been stolen/Hacked. Not as such with names but email addresses:

Bri said:
Someone might contact you, chat for a few messages, then ask for your email address so they can email you something. You don't mind, so you tell them.

That person then goes to your email provider, and sees you have a secret question of "What is your favorite color?" so they proceed to ask that question in the next message they send you.

You answer, blue and they then try to gain access to your email account via your secret question with the answer of blue.

If all goes well for them, they now have access to your email account, and they can then request a new password from inselkampf by clicking on the Forgot Password? link on the main site... They enter your username and your email address and it generates a new password and sends it to your email address.

They now have your inselkmapf password, so they log in themselves, change the email address associated with your account and proceed to request another password.

You've now lost your account.

Now look how simple that is, and that is done without knowing the persons name, So it might not be something as serious as Identity theft and perhaps some sort of hacking an account.

Just think - as Ronin Storm said - Someone doing the same sort of thing with your bank details. They could add you on msn, talk to you for weeks perhaps months and one day - while in general conversation - He asks you where you were born, or What your mother or Fathers name is.

So there is no point in using people's real names even if there is a tiny chance of anything happening to you.
 
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elDiablo

Guest
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Macca said:
That person then goes to your email provider, and sees you have a secret question of "What is your favorite color?" so they proceed to ask that question in the next message they send you.

You answer, blue and they then try to gain access to your email account via your secret question with the answer of blue.

Which is a classic example of why you answer (in regards to setting up email accounts, etc.) with an answer like library :) Which is what I do!

But you have to remember what you wrote, and not write it down.
 

Pestcontrol

In Cryo Sleep
Ronin Storm said:
Everyone,

I know that many of you like using each other's real names online. I think that people feel better about others, more closely related, more privileged, or whatever when they can point at others and say "hey, I know your real name".

That's great. It's also dangerous.

This is a public site. These are publically indexed boards. The reason you use a net-handle is to protect your identity because, online, your real identity is the only thing that keeps you apart from the truly dangerous people who will seek to steal your identity for any number of purposes.

If I see a "Haven" online I know who I believe that handle relates to as I know Haven face-to-face. I can quiz a Haven who starts asking me for passwords or access to this and that and discover that he is who I think he is and his identity has not been stolen... that it's not someone else pretending to be him.

Every time you hand out someone's real name, including your own, you put them or you at risk. You give away that which you should damn well be keeping safe to, well, anybody who cares to look. Most people just don't give a crap, but there's that small, select few who are looking for that edge, looking for the angle, looking to steal your identity and use it to cover up some evil little caper they've thought up.

Why take the risk? More-over, why put your friends at risk?

The Internet is a hostile environment. I've worked for an ISP for 18 months, admittedly a little while back, and I've seen some of the nasty stuff that happens out there -- account theft, libel, server ownage, and so on, not to mention some of the startling nasty sites out there you can find yourself signed up for. Don't give the bad guys any edge. Keep your identity safe. Don't use your real name, and certainly don't use other people's real names at that.

You may come back at me and ask me why I present my real name in some places?

I'm already discoverable. I'm listed as a domain owner, where I must provide my real name, in both US and UK registrars. Moreover, I'm an admin for various sites and to be an anonymous admin undermines trust, so I accept some a low level of risk to offset the distance created by people not knowing who I am. And despite that, you don't see me using my real name... in fact, online, I am Ronin Storm, not just assuming that name.

Stay safe. Keep your real name for the real world.

Same goes for your real email address, your contact details, your IP...

--RS
[mod]discussion split off from original post to The Soap Box[/mod]
 

Pestcontrol

In Cryo Sleep
The problem isn't so much identity theft, which indeed can be done with thrown away information, but people, or more specific enemies, can cause you a lot of trouble by abusing your personal information. For example someone could set up a website with my real name and some (real or fake) pictures and a bunch of lies or other allegiations, i have a much bigger problem than when all they have is my nickname. Putting "John Smith from Somewhere with phonenumber 1234etc is a twat" on the web has a much greater effect than "Johnnie4782 is a twat".
It also matters where you leave your name. A public profile, signature, or public email address that contains your real name can be dangerous, whereas telling it to someone on teamspeak or in an email or pm signature will only tell it to a few persons once, in private.

Also, a name, paired with a vague location of where someone is living, can allow you to lookup other info such as phone number and address. Your name is definitely the most important piece of personal information.

I've caught a person with stolen CD-Keys once in AlienSwarm, besides relaying the keys to Epic (who promptly globally banned them), i had him add me on msn. I then did some digging and googling and as a result i was able to find his real name, address, phone number and date of birth. I've had no further incidents but in the case of continued problems i would be able to contact his parents and detail to them all the things their kid does online. An administrator on another forum once told me he did roughly the same and did in fact contact someone's parents after some kid stole his work and spread it as his own.

These are examples of putting lingering identity information to good (well, for society ;)) use. But other people may not be as kind hearted, and they can do exactly the same things to get your details.

I hope i can make everyone realise the potential threat that something as simple as your name can pose to yourself, it may seem abstract like the threat of an earthquake, but it's still very real.



LynxGB said:
I can see all the you have points made, yes, but at the end of the day are we being "banned" from using real names?
There's no law against being stupid, unfortunately. :)
 
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LynxGB

Guest
Watch out folks don't tell them my name is Adam or he might ring my mum?
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Real Names: Don't Use Them

Ronin Storm said:
But you may not use my real name, which I can ban you from doing, even just as a user.

I've had a nudge to the effect "do you mean that you're going to ban Lynx if he uses your real name on THN?"

Let me clarify.

No, I won't administratively ban Lynx (or others) if he uses my real name on this forum.

Above I meant that I, just as a person, require that Lynx not use my real name or other details on the Internet because I don't want to extend the proliferation of that information. I've already let the cat out of the bag on some things, but why aid the process of proliferation?

Clearly, I can only "require" this in the way that I ask, very strongly, for other people not to share my real life information on the Internet. My hope is that, as a respectful community, you guys n gals would hold with my strong request, this requirement so to speak.

Strongly worded language always sounds like giving orders, to me, but I see no other way to express the gravity I wish to provide to information ownership. I figure you've probably got it, by now, or hopefully knew where I was coming from on first pass. If not, drop me a PM or something and I'll do my best to clarify.

By the by, if I did happen to see my real name used in place of my net-handle then I'll almost certainly moderate it back to my net-handle. Slips occur... hell, I make mistakes sometimes and I work very hard at treating information ownership and distribution with the utmost respect. Others, I know, place a lesser priority on this. C'est la vie, I guess.
 
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