Realistic but Good PC?

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Let me preface this with a note that I've not actually got any money so this is all so much pie in the sky.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend I had £1000 to build a new system at the end of May... if that was the case, and you were me, what would you invest in?

Currently...

My profile has my current system specification. There's very little that I can carry forward. The hard drives are still serviceable, though small by today's standards. The DVD-RW drive is perfectly good and chosen for ability to read a variety of formats for ripping purposes (mainly music, using EAC). The graphics card was once hot stuff and is probably the thing that keeps this system going well past her end of life. The monitor is just fine, but unfortunately not DVI (though I have DVI-to-VGA adapters so I'm not fretting).

Assumptions...

I start from the assumption that I have all the software licenses I need and I object to paying for them as part of a pre-bundled system. However, that doesn't necessarily mean I'd outright reject a pre-bundled system as, these days, I'm getting tired of the nuts and bolts of building a system by parts.

That said, I've no intention to update to Vista so even if a system came with Vista pre-installed I'll be stripping it off to put ol' WinXP SP2 back on. No, Linux is not an option I'll seriously consider. I work in Windows, play games in Windows, write code for Windows. Nothing against Linux, just not an option that will sway me either way.

I'll probably also assume that I'm keeping my current (CRT) monitor and that I'm mainly looking to replace the base unit. Again, I'd love a new monitor but that'll throw another £200 at the price and I'd rather spend that on more power (unless I've £200 kicking about after pricing everything else up).

I've also got a clear idea of what keyboard and mouse combination I use, what speakers I need, and so on. Just limiting this to the base system, no peripherals, unless that has a fundamental impact (e.g. deliberately buying an external soundcard so I can use it both with my laptop and desktop at different times).

The Big Questions...

It seems to me that any such investigation starts from the point of view of making a few primary choices. A few years back I knew enough to make the choices but as my ability to buy new hardware decreased, so did my time spent keeping up with it. As that ability has tended to zero, so has my knowledge... :p

Still, it seems that the big questions remain:

  • Processor -- Intel or AMD?
  • Graphics -- nVidia or ATI?
  • Sound -- onboard, internal or external?

That triplet, to my mind, then governs the entirety of the purchasing process from bounding what motherboard is required, then to what PSU is needed, what case they can fit in, how many fans you need and of what type and so on.

Have I missed any key questions for the current market?

Traditionally, I've gone AMD, nVidia and internal. Happy to rethink that if there's fair reason to do so.

So, can you help?

Not looking (necessarily) for you guys to go out and price me up components, though feel free if you fancy doing that. Really just looking for some thoughts on the current market, where the real choices lie, what tradeoffs can be had and whether, by waiting two weeks I could have saved a load of money/effort by waiting for "just that one extra technology".

Any thoughts?
 

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
To my knowledge, the best processors on the market atm are the Intel Core 2 Duo processors, they seem to be beating their relevant AMD counterparts for both value and performance if what I have read can be believed.

As for Graphics, nVidia also seem to have that one sorted with the 8800 series of cards.

As for sound, I use a USB 5.1 surround sound headset, so really not something that I can offer any advice on. But I have always been perfectly happy with the on-board sound for my own needs, and most up to date motherboards will now have at least 5.1 (if not 7.1 or 8.1) channel on-board sound.
 

waterproofbob

Junior Administrator
Processor wise its got to be a Intel C2D in the current market, you can get a very good very reliable chip without removing your bladder. There are still the uber chips but it is not neccesary to splurge money in the current enviroment, especially if you don't have it to spend.
the 8600s are a very reasonable quite cheap dx10 alternative.
The silly case (see later post for silly case) was just an example as i cba to think about cases. I know you don't want to build it yourself, but that is vaguelly what you're looking at. and with some monies left over you could always get a raptor as an OS drive if need be. This is of course unless I've forgotten somet which is always possible.
I'll have a bit of a look for bundles later cba now and am going home. i hope this is helpful
 
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elDiablo

Guest
As for Graphics, nVidia also seem to have that one sorted with the 8800 series of cards.

I wouldn't count on that for too much longer. Remembering how much of an nVidia fan boy I am, go read up on the Radeon R600 chipset and such likes. It's looking to beat the nVidia 8-series in cost and specs, meaning it's gonna be a hell of a lot cheaper. The downside being you'll have to wait a few months (rumoured release to be this summer). It's also going to have lots of super spankily bits too, such as an onboard audio card to allow HDMI with audio (as DVI only carries video signal, so DVI->HDMI converters don't add in the sound). It's going to be a beast of a card, and is well worth looking at.

That being said, nVidia were a bit quiet before the 8-series release, and as soon as they released how bad the R600 was for them, they went quiet (relatively) again... I'm not saying anything other then habits are hard to break!
 

waterproofbob

Junior Administrator
hmmmmm personally wouldn't bet on r600 anytime soon, but if you can wait, it is likely to roast many nuts on a very high heat.
 

waterproofbob

Junior Administrator
Unfortunately not.

Thanks for the replies so far. :)

yeah i was relying on scan keeping baskets for longer. time to make again.

Xclio A380 SuperTower £76.36 Inc VAT
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, Socket 775, 2.67 GHz £203.26
256MB XFX 8600GTS £138.09
500 Gb Western Digital WD5000AAKS Caviar SE16 £74.60
2GB (2x1GB) CorsairTwinX XMS2 £117.08
Asus P5N32-E SLI NF680i SLI £136.76 / EVGA 122-CK-NF67-A1 NF680iLT SLI £140.62
650W Enermax Infiniti £116.31


and that was my shopping list. it comes to £878.59 plus delivery costs.
I think thats everything. As mentioned before that gives you something to play with under the £1000 mark. I hope thats helpful.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
8600 not 8800?

Notice you've pulled off two SLI boards there. Doesn't seem likely I'll be making it onto SLI any time soon. Are there other benefits there that I'm ignoring? I was peering at "MSI S775 Intel P965 ATX 8 CH HD Audio GB Lan Silent" (£79.99 incl. VAT) just now (via dabs.com).
 

waterproofbob

Junior Administrator
8600 not 8800?

Notice you've pulled off two SLI boards there. Doesn't seem likely I'll be making it onto SLI any time soon. Are there other benefits there that I'm ignoring? I was peering at "MSI S775 Intel P965 ATX 8 CH HD Audio GB Lan Silent" (£79.99 incl. VAT) just now (via dabs.com).

the other money could be used to go 8800GTS, which would be what i would do, i was merely being cost effective with the pennies. The advantage of the SLI boards are mostly the additional graphics slot for future penny spending. They tend to be more suited for gaming and overclocking and the various companies seem to take better care of the owner of those boards with BIOS updates etc. however there's nothing wrong with single slot boards and somet like the
MSI P965-PLATINUM iP965
would save you monies that could then be put back into the pot to either be saved or to improve the graphics card further. :p

My main reason for choosing SLI boards is that i know more about them and have played around with more of those recently.
 

[THN]Buffalo_Hunter

In Cryo Sleep
How about:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2MB Cache Dual Core 64 Bit Processor
2048MB DDR2 667MHz Dual Channel RAM
500GB (2 x 250GB) Serial ATA II Hard Drive with 16MB Buffer
nVidia 8800GTS 640MB PCI-E Graphics
16x Dual Layer +R/-R/RW DVD burner
DVD Rom Drive
7.1 8-Channel Capable Sound
1 x Gigabit LAN
Microsoft Cordless Keyboard & Optical Mouse
Thermaltake Aluminium Full ATX Tower Case
5 x 5.25" Drive Bays
6 x 3.5" (4xInt, 2xExt) Bays
4 x 667MHz DDR2 Slots slots (4GB max)
1 x Parallel Port, 1 x Serial Port
6 x USB2 (2 Top, 4 Back)

The Novatech Exectuer 6600 for £997.58 + carriage.
 

Haven

Administrator
Staff member
Right now is really not a good time to upgrade mate, I would sit tight and wait another 3-4 months.

Reasons:

GDDR3 is around the corner
Quad processors at affordable prices (think AMD vs intel price war) are also round the corner.
AMD (ATI) is about to release their new graphics chip which really does blow away all the competition (yeah I've seen some naughty NDA stuff).

In short the next couple of months are going to see a lot of new tech, a couple of months after that things will drop to affordable for mere mortals.

My advice would be to hold on in there and get a quad core system (probably intel) when you are ready.
 

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
How about:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2MB Cache Dual Core 64 Bit Processor
2048MB DDR2 667MHz Dual Channel RAM
500GB (2 x 250GB) Serial ATA II Hard Drive with 16MB Buffer
nVidia 8800GTS 640MB PCI-E Graphics
16x Dual Layer +R/-R/RW DVD burner
DVD Rom Drive
7.1 8-Channel Capable Sound
1 x Gigabit LAN
Microsoft Cordless Keyboard & Optical Mouse
Thermaltake Aluminium Full ATX Tower Case
5 x 5.25" Drive Bays
6 x 3.5" (4xInt, 2xExt) Bays
4 x 667MHz DDR2 Slots slots (4GB max)
1 x Parallel Port, 1 x Serial Port
6 x USB2 (2 Top, 4 Back)

The Novatech Exectuer 6600 for £997.58 + carriage.

I was about to suggest that!!! Novatech > all (and they're based just down the road from me too :D)
 
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elDiablo

Guest
hmmmmm personally wouldn't bet on r600 anytime soon, but if you can wait, it is likely to roast many nuts on a very high heat.

As haven said, the R600 is going to blow nVidia out the water :) And waiting 3 months (until July ish) is really not that big a deal when upgrading your PC! Hence why I'm going to save up my first 4 pay cheques to get a new beasty :D
 

Traxata

Junior Administrator
How about the spec's to my system ( even the links etc ) i done everything up nicely in a spreadsheet .... the only difference is, i built this last october, for £1000... the prices have dropped since then obviously!

I'l Post up a link to my speadsheet ( MS 2003 Excel ) file .. as now its dinner time :D
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Thank you all for the thoughts and contributions. I'll go round and Rep the lot of you shortly. I'm going to do some more reading on Core2 CPUs, DDR2 & 3 memory, SATA2, and that sort of stuff. Looks like it's feasible to upgrade/replace for £800-1000, though, which is encouraging.

Thanks again! :)
 
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elDiablo

Guest
Not necessarily: Clicky

Though you have to remember that the 8800 drivers have been out for a while and been optimised lots, while the R600's can still be considered beta drivers (ie, pre-release), and you get a LOT of a boost from optimisations.

We shall see. Also, if you can get awesomeness for lots less money and only losing 30 FPS on most games, it might be worth it!
 

PsiSoldier

Well-Known Member
Given who it is that did the testing, I'm sure they'd have used the 'beta' drivers for both cards to make it fair.
 

[THN]Buffalo_Hunter

In Cryo Sleep
If ATi still haven't got "proper" drivers after this length of time I'd be very surprised. The last thing you want to do is release a card 12 months late and still have unfinished drivers with it.

At the end of the day, the 2900 and 8800 cards are just veryt fast DX9 cards - only when DX10 stuff appears will their true performance become apparent.
 
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