[EVE] The Great Heist

[BiG D]

wishing there was some sort of power in works that would in turn punish them for it, or -even better - make things right.

So make an account and be that power!

Bottom line: "despising" people you've never even met based on something they did in a game that you don't even play? That is not something I would be proud of.

 

[Angelic]

Bottom line: "despising" people you've never even met based on something they did in a game that you don't even play? That is not something I would be proud of.

We're running in circles here - I maintain that ingame actions are real and should be judged as such and knowing the whole story I don't really need to know them, I know their actions. I'm not saying these things depict them wholly, certainly not, but judging from this I wouldn't like to be their friend (nor enemy ).

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

You're right this could go around and around.

No, I don't; yes, I am. The difference between CoD and EVE is obvious - CoD can't be played in any other way and most importantly killing someone else in the game does not cause them permanent harm. In EVE it does, however, moreso when you do it on such grand scale like GHSC did.

But going back to COD as you say it cant be played another way, but in eve if there was no aggression, there would be no demand for anything and the game would stagnate in days, malious actions drive the game. While not all trade is this way, alot of tradable objects have a single use, war*.

*Though in most cases its the kind of war where lines a drawn and everyone can see their opponents.
@ Rhivre

(Yup Mk1....I have an evil RP char, but, does that mean I am a bad person? I dont insult or smacktalk on her, I speak like an 18th century johnny depp wannabe, and am merely protecting asteroids from miners)

Well, if i had a skilled character spare, i would be out there doing the same thing, though probably with less success, so i hope that is sufficient in an answer.
Though because i am too soft, i would probably try to kill people rather than give them time to waste my time while help arrives, so unless they paid up ransom within 2 mins of me having them locked down, maybe thats what all pirates do.

And i get that you dont need a heavily skilled char, but alas my alt who is currently low level is about to move into a NERF guild so i cant use him either, though now that i think about it i could use the 2 alts on my main acc instead

 

[BiG D]

I maintain that ingame actions are real and should be judged as such

This is exactly the sort of view that we (as gamers) have been fighting to overcome for years and years. Don't you agree?

 

[Rhivre]

Well, if i had a skilled character spare, i would be out there doing the same thing, though probably with less success, so i hope that is sufficient in an answer.
Though because i am too soft, i would probably try to kill people rather than give them time to waste my time while help arrives, so unless they paid up ransom within 2 mins of me having them locked down, maybe thats what all pirates do.

And i get that you dont need a heavily skilled char, but alas my alt who is currently low level is about to move into a NERF guild so i cant use him either, though now that i think about it i could use the 2 alts on my main acc instead

MY char has less than 4m sp, she started yarring at 2 days old

 

[Angelic]

This is exactly the sort of view that we (as gamers) have been fighting to overcome for years and years. Don't you agree?

Not exactly, no. Murdering pixelated AI enemies is one thing, destroying other living person's assets another. I'm struggling with lack of words here, but I'm trying to show you that the battleships and ISKs the people stole/destroyed were products of months and months of someone's REAL work. Don't you see that by destroying virtual property they also destroyed months of very real effort? *sighs*

EDIT: I'm cool with killing and stealing from NPCs, it's PCs I'm talking of here.

 

[NISYN Aelisha]

Then EVE is likely not for you.

The only things that matter are your friends, your wits and the strength of arms you can bring in mental power, firepower and numbers.

Games are NOT a yardstick by which morality can be measured - To suggest this is so means that you likely have a reality definition issue.

Also all pvp in eve is consensual, as is scamming - Do not undock or Recruit anyone and you're perfectly safe!

 

[BiG D]

Not exactly, no. Murdering pixelated AI enemies is one thing, destroying other living person's assets another. I'm struggling with lack of words here, but I'm trying to show you that the battleships and ISKs the people stole/destroyed were products of months and months of someone's REAL work.

So murdering AI pixels is fine, murdering player pixels is fine, but stealing a player's pixels is not? Those "assets" are just as fake as anything else.

Completely agree with Aelisha, glad I'm not the only one who thinks there's some perception issues here.

 

[Angelic]

I´m still convinced I´m right, but with all of you still not grasping my point I seem to fail at explanation repeatedly. I´ll give this thread a rest until I can word my view of the issue better.

And make no mistake, I do not have any trouble distinguishing between game and reality, I merely think games relate to and affect real life to great extent.

 

[manicmole]

I get exactly what your trying to get at angelic and your right, That is EXACTLY the reason people do it, because your tears, your sorrow and your anger is the real goal, making isk is nice but if you can ruin someone's day it doesn't matter if you make the money only that they lost more then just internet spaceships.

but truthfully this is a lerning experience, a good player or potential good player would instead of just raging or whineing would LEARN. they'd ask themselves; "what could i have done to do better?", "what mistakes did I make?" and "how could i avoid this happening again in the future?" they think about this and you learn no loss in eve is blameless. if you die, someone killed you, and it wouldn't be eve if it wasn't.

 

[Wraith]

So murdering AI pixels is fine, murdering player pixels is fine, but stealing a player's pixels is not? Those "assets" are just as fake as anything else.

Completely agree with Aelisha, glad I'm not the only one who thinks there's some perception issues here.

I actually agree with Angelic on this one. To start with, the comparison between Eve and CoD is a good one because it highlights the difference. Yes in CoD you go around shooting people which is arguably worse than "just" stealing from/scamming them, but the difference isn't in the type of action but in the consequences of those actions. In CoD, when someone shoots you, you get dropped out of the game for a few seconds or so then respawn and get right back into it, whereas having your assets stolen in Eve could mean wiping out weeks, months or even years of effort by someone.

Also, your statement that the assets are fake is wrong. Not only do they represent substantial investments of time as shown above, but in-game Isk can be traded via official channels for additional subscription time. With that in the mix there is a set conversion rate between the in-game currency and "real-world" currencies like Pounds, Euro's and Dollars. The assets that were stolen therefore have measurable value which could be used to obtain other items of value. Imagine if you had spent several months coding a computer program that you expected to be able to sell but which someone stole from you before you could release it. The program isn't "real" (appologies to all the developers out there) as it has no tangible substance but it does have value. The in-game currency is no different.

Finally, even if there were no way of ascertaining value to the in game assets this is still a crappy thing to do to someone. How would you like it if someone wiped all of your personal files from your computer - photos, files, game saves etc. There's no value to those except that which you place on them personally, be it sentimental value or just the value you place on your time and effort to create them, but you would no doubt be seriously pissed off if someone wiped them wouldn't you?

At the end of the day most people play these games to have fun. Having months of effort wiped out because someone out there gets their jollies from screwing around with people is no fun. And don't forget that in games like CoD, if you run into someone who's making it their mission to ruin everyones fun you can just move to a different server. There is no such option for that in Eve.

 

[waterproofbob]

OK using the example of CoD.
You spend months improving and honing your skills. You enter a tournament with a real money reward. You get to the semi-finals, this is months of time spent and real life effort put in. Probably way more than would have gone into making a big pile of money into eve.
You come up against a team or individual that has found a route on a map or come up with a stealthy tactic to take your team and strategy apart and take your team entirely to pieces, thus all that effort and time spent has come to nothing. OK you have perhaps not lost the skills but you have not gained your final goal.

Now you do not in this case go oh no what a waste, all is lost. You learn from your mistakes pick yourself up and rebuild your team, you strats and you have another go.

Being very different games this translates a little strangely into a MMO but I feel it makes the point. If you take a hit like that in eve you re-access and use the skills and experience you have gained to learn and strike back.

On the point of moving servers. No you can not, you can however move regions, move corps and move assets so that you can dissapear almost entirely if you really feel the need.

 

[BiG D]

Imagine if you had spent several months coding a computer program that you expected to be able to sell but which someone stole from you before you could release it. The program isn't "real" (appologies to all the developers out there) as it has no tangible substance but it does have value. The in-game currency is no different.

There's is a huge difference between something you created yourself with months of hard work, and something you 'earned' by playing a game.

Again, this is a game that is known for exactly this type of thing, and the rules are very clear. It would suck to have it happen, but I know it's possible. You guys are essentially whining that people can steal bases in baseball.

 

[Haven]

I´m still convinced I´m right, but with all of you still not grasping my point I seem to fail at explanation repeatedly. I´ll give this thread a rest until I can word my view of the issue better.

I think we see your point. You are adding a value to time invested which is quite a normal thing to do in todays age of time == money. And when someone destroys what you invested your time in then they are effectively costing you real world money.

However, as in the real world, money is won and lost not just by chance but by misfortune and theft. The greater the value of what is lost the greater the worth to those who took it.

And yes its a game and all of this is factored into the game, the high risks and rewards are what give it challenge and value. If you want no part of those risks or rewards then you really should not play as they are an essential part of what makes the game. Eve is not designed to make you rich in anything outside of the eve universe. Indeed they actively stop you turning game rewards into monetary rewards in the real world. If you go into this with the aim to recoup your investment in real world yen they you are very much in the wrong place doing the wrong thing.

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

Don't you see that by destroying virtual property they also destroyed months of very real effort? *sighs*

I would like to add that all the property destroyed/stolen was all orientated towards destroying other peoples property on the battlefield.

AFAIK all items in eve that "do something" ultimatly do something that aids with war. Or does nothing.


And an idea ive had about what angelic is saying is that what these people(first post) have done was done without posibility of repercussions on them assumming non of them leaked the op im advance. If the members of their parent corp(the thieves) dont undock in fancy ships, they are above response*. And in that i do agree that being invulnerable to retaliation would tend to detract imo from the severity of the crime(for give the dodgy word usage, i know wat i mean ).


*On the otherhand, they are invite only, and other things they mentioned to make sure this doesnt happen to them.