The New Haven
- Thread starter Windzarko
- Start date
Ahey, 
Well, I've been mulling my own thoughts and feelings on this for a number of days, and I finally decided to post something. (Meh, better late than never, in this case, I guess.)
Thing is, Duren and Ronin Storm already made some of the points I was going to make, so I'll let those lie, adding my full support to all their points.
The one thing I wanted to add: in my opinion, your plan for the guild has way too many ranks. I'd cull three, or at least two ranks out of the mix.
Suggestions below. Justification first.
I've managed a number of community groups, whether they be forums, student associations, clubs, etc, both online and in RL. My experience, designed group structures always look better on paper than they work in practice. Three months from now, you will have no new Adepts, most Officers worth their salt will have converged into Haven Elite, and the structure of the guild, in practice, will not resemble what you have on paper. As a result, communication is bound to suffer, and that means integration will be harder. Easy integration is, IMHO, the number one priority for tight knitting. (By the way, in case it's not obvious, I think that most of what Duren and Ronin Storm said are directly and strongly related to integration.)
So, suggestions. (A word of warning: I sometimes come off as being a bit arrogant or a bit of a know-it-all. If that happens, appologies in advance. The word "suggestions" is to be taken literally.)
1) I'd get rid of Veteran. I don't see a reason why members shouldn't be able to edit their personal notes right off the bat. If you can't trust a proper member to say what they want to say about themselves, do you really want them in your group of friends?
2) I'd merge Officer and Haven Elite together, and I'd go one further. You might consider making it an open goal for every member of the guild. I.e., it should be a rank that everyone could strive for and attain if they're willing to have the attitude and put in the effort. (Ask yourself, if at one point in time, you have ~70 peeps in the guild, would you be happy if everyone in the guild is a Haven Elite? I would, as it means everyone in the guild really knows each other, talks with each other, helps each other, forumizes with each other, etc, etc.) Of course, it would still be a tough goal, as TS and forums for everyone is a noble, but alas, somewhat distant vision.
3) I'd merge Arbiter and Coordinator. Assist in organizing and running events, have areas to focus on, etc, that's not a very long shot to helping with the general administration, and really, if you're aiming for the 60~70 membership mark, you really will not need a management hierarchy.
Well, I've written a lot for what is decidely a rather minor point, but I wanted to share my experience, so there.
That said, I'd fully welcome having a better vision of what's expected of me as a member of the Haven in general, and as an Officer in particular (which is my current rank, though I fully understand it is subject to change in either direction when the new plan is fully implemented.)
One last question: do you have any particular plans for alt characters? (For instance, will they have the same ranks and responsibilities as the main if the main is in the guild?)
I just want to end with a special hug for waterproffbob, because, well, because I can.
Cheers,
J.
Well, I've been mulling my own thoughts and feelings on this for a number of days, and I finally decided to post something. (Meh, better late than never, in this case, I guess.
)Thing is, Duren and Ronin Storm already made some of the points I was going to make, so I'll let those lie, adding my full support to all their points.
The one thing I wanted to add: in my opinion, your plan for the guild has way too many ranks. I'd cull three, or at least two ranks out of the mix.
Suggestions below. Justification first.
I've managed a number of community groups, whether they be forums, student associations, clubs, etc, both online and in RL. My experience, designed group structures always look better on paper than they work in practice. Three months from now, you will have no new Adepts, most Officers worth their salt will have converged into Haven Elite, and the structure of the guild, in practice, will not resemble what you have on paper. As a result, communication is bound to suffer, and that means integration will be harder. Easy integration is, IMHO, the number one priority for tight knitting. (By the way, in case it's not obvious, I think that most of what Duren and Ronin Storm said are directly and strongly related to integration.)
So, suggestions. (A word of warning: I sometimes come off as being a bit arrogant or a bit of a know-it-all. If that happens, appologies in advance. The word "suggestions" is to be taken literally.
)1) I'd get rid of Veteran. I don't see a reason why members shouldn't be able to edit their personal notes right off the bat. If you can't trust a proper member to say what they want to say about themselves, do you really want them in your group of friends?
2) I'd merge Officer and Haven Elite together, and I'd go one further. You might consider making it an open goal for every member of the guild. I.e., it should be a rank that everyone could strive for and attain if they're willing to have the attitude and put in the effort. (Ask yourself, if at one point in time, you have ~70 peeps in the guild, would you be happy if everyone in the guild is a Haven Elite? I would, as it means everyone in the guild really knows each other, talks with each other, helps each other, forumizes with each other, etc, etc.) Of course, it would still be a tough goal, as TS and forums for everyone is a noble, but alas, somewhat distant vision.
3) I'd merge Arbiter and Coordinator. Assist in organizing and running events, have areas to focus on, etc, that's not a very long shot to helping with the general administration, and really, if you're aiming for the 60~70 membership mark, you really will not need a management hierarchy.
Well, I've written a lot for what is decidely a rather minor point, but I wanted to share my experience, so there.
That said, I'd fully welcome having a better vision of what's expected of me as a member of the Haven in general, and as an Officer in particular (which is my current rank, though I fully understand it is subject to change in either direction when the new plan is fully implemented.)
One last question: do you have any particular plans for alt characters? (For instance, will they have the same ranks and responsibilities as the main if the main is in the guild?)
I just want to end with a special hug for waterproffbob, because, well, because I can.
Cheers,
J.
I'd agree. Around that point, I have a fundamental difference of opinion with the MMOs I've played and their implementation of ranks.
Ranks (can) provide two things: roles and powers. They are not the same thing.
My original implementation of the ranks in The Haven was oriented around providing powers as opposed to fulfilling roles. I imagine that the original ranks system is long gone by now.
(For everyone who joined after the first couple of months of The Haven, the missing bit of information you might need is that I'm the founding Guild Master for The Haven on Scarshield Legion.)
The ranks system in WoW, however, is hierarchical and implies progression. The allocation of roles or powers is not necessarily anything to do with hierarchy. I tried to abuse the system to do what I wanted with powers allocation but it was quite hard with their base implementation of ranks.
Still, it's worth bearing in mind that ranks, roles and powers are all separate concepts.
Ranks could be thought of as:
- Just Joined
- Accepted Member
- Long Term Member
- Uber Member
... where roles might be:
- Event Organiser
- Recruiter
- Mediator
- Raid Leader
- ... etc
... and then powers:
- Can invite new members
- Can promote members below my rank
- Can kick members below my rank
- Can update Guild MotD
- ...etc
See the separation? Might be worth a thought while considering Guild restructuring.
Mmm, a little change management. I've been at the forefront of these sort of change before. If one assumes that Windzarko is taking responsibility for both defining and implementing the changes then he may feel an incredible storm kicking up inside his head as the list of jobs and pieces of communication that are needed build up in there.
I suggest that there's a collection point for requests such as the above so that it is easy to see what needs doing when everything seems so very complicated. In the middle of a long thread is not a good collection point.
Incidentally, that's probably something that someone other than Windzarko can do. Gathering the points for change and cataloguing, that is.
Of course, all this is Ronin Storm methodology. YMMV.
Windzarko
Well-Known Member
So very true
Anyhoo, I will be culling the Veteran and Officer ranks out of it... the idea seemed good to begin with, but is a tad impractical now... Vet and Adept will be merged, and Members will get the right to edit their notes. And Officers and Elites will be merged as well... I might revise the original post or at least have an updated version soon to reflect this and the other things discussed so far in this thread.
Thanks for the continued discussion, guys; it really is important to me to try and refine my ideas a bit before I implement them.
Windzarko
Well-Known Member
Two Arbiters now; Baldilocks (Chumpo) still has his more-played Druid in the guild, so Rumproast is an Arbiter. And Razaak's hunter Dorakh is the other. If Kershan or Woogle/Zhinrak return to the game, they will be made into Arbiters as well.
But for now, we have enough to start some work with soon, I reckon
But for now, we have enough to start some work with soon, I reckon
Zaggu
In Cryo Sleep
To be honest, I think the debate has turned on a more favorable direction now, with the prevalence of the community side of the guild.
Those who know me, however, my have noticed Zaggank is one step away from completing his Kara attunement, and has been gearing up substantially ever since I dinged him 70 a couple of weeks ago. Like Zaggank, there are toons people would like to see evolving properly as in T4 type raiding.
I am relatively new on this server, so I don't have the same type of contacts people like Windzarko have to be able to raid outside the guild. All this to say but one thing: considering I wouldn't like to switch guilds and have declined invitations by now, what is the guild's future regarding PVE / PVP plans?
Those who know me, however, my have noticed Zaggank is one step away from completing his Kara attunement, and has been gearing up substantially ever since I dinged him 70 a couple of weeks ago. Like Zaggank, there are toons people would like to see evolving properly as in T4 type raiding.
I am relatively new on this server, so I don't have the same type of contacts people like Windzarko have to be able to raid outside the guild. All this to say but one thing: considering I wouldn't like to switch guilds and have declined invitations by now, what is the guild's future regarding PVE / PVP plans?
Windzarko
Well-Known Member
I can't - and indeed won't - say anything about The Haven raiding again between now and Wrath's release, save one thing: we'll see what happens. Until the possibility of something happening in-guild, I'll see what I can do about talking around to friendly guilds who need some extra support and don't mind that support staying in a different guild. For RPers (I'm not talking hardcore RPers, just any), the Greywolf Tribe is an option; just politely ask a member of their guild in-game (maybe meet them In-character to ask, or just do a friendly whisper), and I'm sure you'll get in. For those of you who aren't RPers, look around, and I'll try working on something as well... there's bound to be non-RP oriented guilds who'll take you along.
Windzarko
Well-Known Member
Aye... I -really- want that for my paladin... she's the perfect level for Dustwallow's new town, I think, plus she's got a ways to go to 60 yet... it'll be so much easier.
Plus the new retuned dungeon loot will hopefully making group easier... not that I have as much trouble as I used to, being a tank.
Heh... seems Blizzard are finally taking better steps to make things easier and more enjoyable for everyone...
Plus the new retuned dungeon loot will hopefully making group easier... not that I have as much trouble as I used to, being a tank.
Heh... seems Blizzard are finally taking better steps to make things easier and more enjoyable for everyone...
G
Gombol
Guest
G
Gombol
Guest
i was just saying
Windzarko
Well-Known Member
Look, raiding is not the focus right now. That can be looked at when we have a guild that doesn't consist of two or three people a day saying something, and two to seven others drifting in and out silently... the guild is almost dead, and I think we need to see to that before raiding's worth looking at.