THN Awards

Wol

In Cryo Sleep
Do you think it is right to publicly publicise who does and doesnt contribute financially towards THN?

Considering it was mentioned that people arent going to be treated differently, or be unwelcome if they don't contribute, isn't publishing a list of who is / isn't / has / hasn't contributed money a bit.....1) strange 2) irrelevant, apart from then being able to go "yay, look at me, ive paid money"?

Thoughts?
 

Haven

Administrator
Staff member
Everything we do here we do for the love of social and gaming, I don't think that's going to change any time soon. Think of the banners as a thank you from the community and recognition that they helped the games keep flowing. For the same reason we have banners as thanks to admins, mods, game organisers. If you put in your own free time or money to something that is entirely voluntary then I think its a nice thing to have someone say "thank you". This is the best way "we" (mods and admins) can think of doing that :)

As always constructive recommendations on improvements are more than welcome.
 

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
I personally don't have an issue with it. What I would have an issue with is if the amounts that people were donating were published in some way, as I'd prefer that that info remained private.

If people did have an issue with being identified as a contributor then I'm sure that with a quick message to an appropriate admin the userbar could be removed.

As you say, it is largely irrelevant, except perhaps for marginally inflating people's ego. If we got into a situation where someone started being a douche and demanding/doing/saying things because they or someone else is/isn't a contributor, then that will become an issue. Similarly if people start to be treated differently because they are/are not a contributor then this will also need dealing with appropriately.

But unless any of the above starts happening I don't see an issue with it :)
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
I personally don't have an issue with it. What I would have an issue with is if the amounts that people were donating were published in some way, as I'd prefer that that info remained private.

If people did have an issue with being identified as a contributor then I'm sure that with a quick message to an appropriate admin the userbar could be removed.

As you say, it is largely irrelevant, except perhaps for marginally inflating people's ego. If we got into a situation where someone started being a douche and demanding/doing/saying things because they or someone else is/isn't a contributor, then that will become an issue. Similarly if people start to be treated differently because they are/are not a contributor then this will also need dealing with appropriately.

But unless any of the above starts happening I don't see an issue with it :)

The different amounts ARE published though - hence the difference between a supporter and a patron.

Although it's only a marginal ego inflation, it still is an ego inflation. Whilst it may have no short term impact, it does worry me than perhaps even subconsciously, people will treat others differently.

I already asked Ronin about this, and his response placated me, so I'll wait for him to get here and do the honours himself, rather than attempt to paraphrase :)
 

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
The different amounts ARE published though - hence the difference between a supporter and a patron.

Although it's only a marginal ego inflation, it still is an ego inflation. Whilst it may have no short term impact, it does worry me than perhaps even subconsciously, people will treat others differently.

I already asked Ronin about this, and his response placated me, so I'll wait for him to get here and do the honours himself, rather than attempt to paraphrase :)

You aren't a patron so I don't care what you say! /ignore

*ahem* :D

er, I mean, while there is still a *singular* value there, it doesn't bother me personally in the slightest.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
The different amounts ARE published though - hence the difference between a supporter and a patron.

Although it's only a marginal ego inflation, it still is an ego inflation. Whilst it may have no short term impact, it does worry me than perhaps even subconsciously, people will treat others differently.

I already asked Ronin about this, and his response placated me, so I'll wait for him to get here and do the honours himself, rather than attempt to paraphrase :)

Isn't the difference between a supporter and a patron that one has a subscription, and one was a one off donor? Particularly since at the £2.50/month rate of subscription, you would reach the £20 patron limit anyway in a year?
 

Wol

In Cryo Sleep
Isn't the difference between a supporter and a patron that one has a subscription, and one was a one off donor? Particularly since at the £2.50/month rate of subscription, you would reach the £20 patron limit anyway in a year?

I've never paid a one off payment, but I'm flagged as being a supporter.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
I note Huung's larger post and the wider issues. Let me get some breakfast and I'll respond to those.

Isn't the difference between a supporter and a patron that one has a subscription, and one was a one off donor?

No. It's the £20 with that calendar year that is the boundary. Thus a single donation or a subscription over time can both succeed at that. Reason: crazy things happen with donation payments where subscriptions are cancelled or fail, sometimes at the user's behest, othertimes not.

I've been back through our transaction logs for 2010, which has found many subscriptions and through-the-board one-off payments; thus people so awarded were people who showed up in our transaction logs. I'll go through more with Bob, hopefully today, for those that were made via the Donate button, which I can't see via the board.

There's more to say on the subject but I'll get to that in a larger post shortly.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Pulling a particular thread of conversation out...

Do you think it is right to publicly publicise who does and doesnt contribute financially towards THN?

What I would have an issue with is if the amounts that people were donating were published in some way, as I'd prefer that that info remained private.

The different amounts ARE published though - hence the difference between a supporter and a patron.

while there is still a *singular* value there, it doesn't bother me personally in the slightest.

As Huung says, he already contacted me and I'm glad my response was helpful to him. I'm cutting-pasting and rewriting some of my response to him in the hope that's more widely helpful too.

...

It's a tricky space. Introducing changes into a well established community is always difficult, not least when money is involved.

One of the risks of this kind of change is creating division in the community: the haves and the have-nots. In this case, I feel it's actually important to make some noise about contributing on an ongoing basis. THN costs a surprising amount to keep afloat and we want to be sure that we're not taking the support, financial or otherwise, for granted.

I've pulled some inspiration from the way BoardGameGeek manage their much larger community in terms of giving back a simple thing in return for providing vital support. Their graphical stuff is more in an 8bit stylee, which isn't something I appreciate hugely. We've gone for userbars, which is something we mooted for signatures about three years back but nothing came of it then. I guess this is the ultimate product of that thinking.

Talking pure theory for moment, you could draw a parallel with cookies, I guess. However, cookies and these rewards exist to serve a very different purpose. Cookies are a way of the community patting each other on the back for anything at all. I find they're often given for lols as much as "real" contributions. These are meant to, quite deliberately, act as marks of appreciation from the Admin Team.

See the core problem is this: we can't make people donate but if we don't then we will lose Promethius, permanently. This seems like a way to encourage support without kicking people for their monies, but also gives us a way of giving out other kinds of rewards too for competitions or other non-financial contributions.

Out of a portfolio of around 20ish awards, only two are financially related. I'd really hate for the awards to be lost in worries about "paying for banners" or fears of making second-class citizens of those who don't contribute financially to THN.

Why two? Counter question: how much financial support to THN is enough? Based on past performance, we're lucky to have 10 subscribers plus a further 5 one-off donators (not counting raffles, as offering "cash" prizes for contributions is very different). These people cover the majority of the hard costs that keep THN running. We simply can't do everything we do without them and I honestly feel we can't thank them enough.

So what about the other people who just give a little bit? They're awesome too. Are they the same as the former set? Personally, I don't think so. Why? It's the difference between £2.50/year and £120/year (or more). So we draw a line. It's arbitrary, yes, but £20 seems like enough to make a difference by itself. Lots of £2.50's add up, of course, but practically we don't get the 50 or so per month we need to keep THN running into the future.

So, we want to reward the people who've made a big difference. Seems natural. But we also want to thank those who've given what they could. They're different sorts of people and it seems worthy that the former should be lauded and the latter should be thanked. Maybe it's the difference between "thank you very much" and merely "thank you"? Still, that's the difference and why they've been divided.

Will there be some other financial award? I doubt it, unless perhaps someone paid for all of THN for an entire year or something. I'd make them a special badge in a heartbeat. Would they get anything else for their contribution? Nope (which, I guess, discourages that sort of massive contribution...), unless you count being thanked a lot.

It's a difficult space. This was the best we could come up with in terms of thanking and recognising people without going crazy.

Whatever the case, if people would rather not show their title then they are welcome to request all or part of it be removed; it won't change their entitlement to it, of course, just a matter of whether they want to show it or not.
 

Dr Drae

In Cryo Sleep
This is an interesting topic actually, when I saw the whole awards thing, it never occurred to me the consequences of the bars. Still, I think they're well deserved; THN is such a brilliant community, that I'd hate to see it disappear because of financial issues.

Hopefully once I get my EMA sorted, and if I get this job I've gone for (fingers crossed), I'll be able to start putting something in, instead of just saying the words. :P
 

magosreborn

New Member
personaly I think its a nice idea. The bars look pretty cool and its doesn't do anything other than represent a thank you for helping to keep the community funded. Yes there are ppl that would like to contribute but can't but this shouldn't be a "I'm better than you" symbol and if any one use's it as such it can taken away as easy as it was given out.
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
The only problem I have with them is that, especially for someone with a whole gamut (like blokester and Roninski), they're a bit on the chunky side.







Sez me and my mega sig
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
I mused on half width ones (170 pixels rather than 340) but some of the wording for some awards would tend to be longer than the banner itself and they'd mostly just be colour splashes with some text on them. That said, this is my stab at doing these as userbars; quite prepared to entertain alternates if someone wants to have a go at that.
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
I guess that should be me, since I am the resident artiste after all.

Maybe if the size of text is a huge problem then you could have it with an acronym [BBLO], and then when you mouse over the ribbon it would pop up with Blood Bowl League Organiser.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Unfortunately, there's a technical constraint there. All the images have had their URLs massively shorted courtesy of bit.ly because there's a fairly small maximum size to a user title and currently a lot of it is taken up with HTML. We could add the mouse-overs, but they'd be a further 7 characters of HTML plus whatever the text said... it adds up to a lot of characters.

I could look at a different mechanism for recording titles (probably around the custom profile fields) but this was the straightest line to implementing this functionality.
 

Razaak

Well-Known Member
Yay, ego trip FTW. How can I make my name cool blue? Also, I can haz my 2nd stripe pl0x?
 

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
to make your name blue, go to the User CP at the top left, then select Group Memberships from the menu on the left, and the option you desire will be found at the bottom :)
 
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