TWG: the REAL return!

[thatbloke]

EDIT: I have posted up a revised set of rules and roles for this game here. Please read these as the current (latest) set of rules that I wish to use, but they are all still open for discussion!

Ok so some of you may remember my not-so-successful attempt at starting a new game of TWG a few weeks ago. I had to postpone it due to the fact that my internet connection was cut off for a while!

However... it is now back on and stable, so here's the deal:

Signups for the new TWG game will be open until 2100 BST on Sunday September 16th (that's 9pm to you people that can't do 24 hour clocks).

In an attempt to allow more time for deliberations on lynching votes, etc. and to try to allow for people needing to be afk on certain days I am going to make the day periods longer, hopefully going some way toward alleviating this problem. My proposed structure for gameplay is as follows:

• Overnight on Sunday 16th Sept (i.e. after 9pm), players will have their roles randomly assigned to them.
• The first game day will begin at approx. 9am Monday morning and will last for 36 hours, until 9pm the following day.
• This cycle will then continue, where the night-time period will last for 12 hours and the daytime period will last approx. 36 hours.

Now for the gritty details:

This game will be 1930s Mafia-themed. That means get out your tommy guns, violin cases full of cash and your suits!

A good list of rules and roles can be found on wikipedia.

Now my proposed ruleset. These are all open to discussion and can/will be changed depending on how you, the players, decide you want to play the game (before we start obviously).

• No lynch vote. The townspeople can, once and once only, submit a "no vote," which is to say that they do not wish to lynch anyone that night.
• This is in addition to the first night... On the first night and that first night only, you may vote to not lynch anyone. This will not use up the no lynch vote mentioned above.
• As in the previous games, votes must be submitted by stating that person's name in bold in your post. You can change your mind as many times as you like, but I will only take the LAST VOTE that you submitted when night falls as your vote.
• To win, the number of Mafia members left alive within the game must be equal to or greater than the number of normal townspeople left alive.
• Each player will also have one veto. Using this veto they can decrease the number of votes against another player (not themself!) of their choosing.

My proposed list of roles:

• All Mafia members will be of equal status.
• Mayor. This character will have the power of two votes instead of the usual one. This will be allocated randomly. The Mayor may be aligned with EITHER faction, so beware!
• [strike]Priest. The town has a church, and within it a very devout priest. The priest will be an innocent, however the priest's role will remain secret. The player who takes this role may reveal their role as they see fit. The idea behind the priest is that if the priest character is killed they will be able to call upon the Wrath of God, and also take with them a (random) member of the Mafia.[/strike]
  The priest has been removed following discussion in this thread.
• Private Detective. This role will allow one innocent to spy on any player of their choosing and determine their alignment. This role will, again, be secret to begin with and it will be at the player's descretion whether or not to reveal their role. The detective will not be a member of the Mafia.
• Sheriff. The Sheriff will play the role of a protector. That is, the Sheriff can nominate one person per night to offer their (and the police force's) protection to. The Sheriff will NOT be a secret role. If that nominated person is then attacked at night, the Sheriff will thwart the attacker's efforts! The reason I mention "attackers" is because I intend that this role may be assigned to EITHER faction! (randomly of course...) In the event that the Sheriff is an innocent, it will work as above. To expand on the Sheriff a little more:
  • The Sheriff will be able to use both his own and the police force's power to protect ONE person per night (including him/herself - this is to try and prevent the sheriff from being killed first should he be an innocent). Who the sheriff protects will remain a secret unless the person under his protection is attacked. The idea that the sheriff could be either faction represents the fact that he could have been "bought out" by the mafia and is, in fact, a bent copper.
  • The sheriff may protect ANYONE, and that includes from either the Mafia trying to kill someone OR the townspeople attempting to lynch someone. Doing either may reveal very compelling evidence as to your alignment, however, so be careful!

Right. Obviously this is all open for discussion. Please discuss all the rules and roles I have presented here as you see fit. This is not a definitive list!

The only thing I am unsure of atm is the ratio of Mafia players to townspeople... I would guess that either a 1:2 (1 mafia member per 2 townspeople) or a 1:3 (1 mafia member per 3 townspeople) would be best, or perhaps in-between. That final ratio may depend on sign-ups, however.




Are you still reading? Get talking then!

 

[elDiablo]

Sounds good. Mafia is always fun

About the sheriff though, I think he should always be innocent and unknown. Giving the wolves (aka, mafia) the sheriff means they get a HUGE advantage by protecting a wolf (mafia) for one night from lynching. Ok, it might then mean that they are "proven" to be wolves (mafias? mafii?), but it is also taking away one of the greatest powers the innocents have. The wolves (bah, they are wolves damnit) know who each other are, and can easily organise; innocents don't know sh*t, and randomly guess who to kill. With a ratio of 1:3, that means they only have a 25% chance of getting a wolf each night (unless they are the P.I. and know who the wolves are).

So, really, I'm trying to say that it is very easy to unbalance the game in favour of the wolves. Having a lower ratio than 1:2 wolves:humans also gives the wolves a big chance to out number very quickly (remembering that (at most) 2 innocents can be killed every day/night cycle while a maximum of 1 wolf can die every day/night cycle, and there is still more chance of innocents being lynched first).

Also, revealed roles mean it is very easy to kill people off. If everyone knows who the sheriff is, and the wolves know (s)he isn't one of them, they are likely to kill the sheriff off the first night to get rid of them. If the sheriff isn't killed the first night, it is very possible that (s)he is a wolf. So (s)he get's lynched (unless they successfully defend someone the first night, proving their innocence, but likely annoying the wolves who will then eat them the second night). Very annoying

Other than that, I did like the Mayor idea, and it's worked in the past, so yays.

Finally, I guess, up sign me in game the please!

PS - I typoed mayor to major a minute ago, leading me to think of an awesome war style TWG (also keeping it's acronym!), so I think I'll do that one next

 

[thatbloke]

Well yes I have been thinking more on the Sheriff idea - perhaps it may in fact be better to do it your way. The only problem I am seeing here is what to do if the Sheriff ends up protecting a Mafia guy?

Another thing I just thought of (which should make it more interesting) is that I am NOT going to reveal people's roles when they are deaded. You're gonna have to figure that out yourself

 

[elDiablo]

Well, the guardian angel can end up protecting a wolf, so why shouldn't a sheriff end up protecting a mafian? Innocent until proven guilty, etc.

As for not revealing roles at death, that's fine. It's one of the ruleset, and works well. I personally hate it, and as the GM you'll have to make sure to say things like "If the Sheriff is still alive, PM me..." etc., all through the game, otherwise you might give it away a bit, but I'm sure a university graduate can cope with that

Finally, I was thinking of a "Sin City" type TWG whereby all players have to post in the memory still of their character, rather than "in role". So instead of directly replying to people, you'd say things like, "I had a funny feeling about waterproofbob. Word on the street was that he'd gotten his nickname after a Thin Jimmy failed to give his some cement shoes over at the docks. No one's seen Thin Jimmy since then, and it always tickled my curiousity." etc. Feel free to steal it, but I'm well up for using it in my next TWG.

 

[BiG D]

Finally, I was thinking of a "Sin City" type TWG whereby all players have to post in the memory still of their character, rather than "in role".

That's a great idea. How would this be enforced?

 

[elDiablo]

How would this be enforced?

Just through each player doing it I guess. The GM can say, "If you don't do it this way, you're kicked out of the game" and I'm sure a few mods would help enforce that. However, I don't think that would be needed. Going on the previous games, everyone who has played has played in role. In the first TWG, everyone was in role with prompting! Which made me feel great! So everyone who plays seems to be more than willing to do it in a fun way, rather than the "It was him. That's all I'm saying" way.

So, er, player professionalism seems to be the best thing really. Otherwise the GM says play it the right way or not at all, and if people mess around, I'm sure some negative rep for ruining others fun would follow. Who knows?!

And yeah, I quite like the idea to

 

[Piacular]

No lynch vote. The townspeople can, once and once only, submit a "no vote," which is to say that they do not wish to lynch anyone that night.

Meh, abstaining is only a plus for all the cowardly dogs!

This is in addition to the first night... On the first night and that first night only, you may vote to not lynch anyone. This will not use up the no lynch vote mentioned above.

Ooh, don't do that. Then the mafia get 2 free nights making it a waste of time. People at the start of a game will choose to do nothing, who would want to stand out in a game of life & death!? Sure, you can argue that people have the choice, but it isn't a real choice look at what happened to Wraith in the first game? Again it's only a plus for the cowardly dogs who don't want to provoke suspicion!

Each player will also have one veto. Using this veto they can decrease the number of votes against another player (not themself!) of their choosing.

Vetos area toughie... is it vote or veto? One veto a day, or one veto for life?

Mayor. This character will have the power of two votes instead of the usual one. This will be allocated randomly. The Mayor may be aligned with EITHER faction, so beware!

Burning bureaucrats smell the best .

Priest. The town has a church, and within it a very devout priest. The priest will be an innocent, however the priest's role will remain secret. The player who takes this role may reveal their role as they see fit. The idea behind the priest is that if the priest character is killed they will be able to call upon the Wrath of God, and also take with them a (random) member of the Mafia.

Gah, I wouldn't agree with this if I was a wolf. It's a bit rubbish, so very random in a bad way, much like having a golden boy on one side who can't be eaten by the wolves . The mechanic should always be 2 deaths a day, with all the extra roles just adding slightly to the intrigue and power plays. When people don't die at night, or don't get lynched it messes the timescale and drama up, but not in a good way!

Private Detective. This role will allow one innocent to spy on any player of their choosing and determine their alignment. This role will, again, be secret to begin with and it will be at the player's discretion whether or not to reveal their role. The detective will not be a member of the Mafia.

Everyone loves a Seer

Sheriff. The Sheriff will play the role of a protector. That is, the Sheriff can nominate one person per night to offer their (and the police force's) protection to. The Sheriff will NOT be a secret role. If that nominated person is then attacked at night, the Sheriff will thwart the attacker's efforts! The reason I mention "attackers" is because I intend that this role may be assigned to EITHER faction! (randomly of course...) In the event that the Sheriff is an innocent, it will work as above. To expand on the Sheriff a little more

Sheriff is a toughie too, and fair play for wanting to put it in, but it is a death sentence, there is no way to play it with a reasonable outcome. Protect himself = lynching. Protect innocents = munching. Plus, as before, he'll mess up the drama of people getting deaded at night. Sure, people like to survive but it only means something if someone else has died.

The only thing I am unsure of atm is the ratio of Mafia players to townspeople... I would guess that either a 1:2 (1 mafia member per 2 townspeople) or a 1:3 (1 mafia member per 3 townspeople) would be best, or perhaps in-between. That final ratio may depend on sign-ups, however.

So far I think we've had 1:3, that's worked okay . Maybe 1:4 for extra giggles?

 

[Ronin Storm]

I'll reply in full later. Briefly, I'm in.

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

Where is this game played?

 

[waterproofbob]

I'm in out in out shake it all about. do the hockey cokey and you turn around and thats what its all about,
whoooooooo the hockey cokey whooooo the hockey cokey whooooo the hockey cokey
knees bent arm stretched rah rah rah

 

[Ronin Storm]

Where is this game played?

On the forums in a thread all of its very own.

For example:

1. [thread=3882]TWG 1[/thread]
2. [thread=3988]TWG 2[/thread]

 

[Twisto]

Not sure if there is going to be a seperate signing up thread, but count me in anyway.

 

[thatbloke]

Where is this game played?

On this forum. If you want in, let me know in this thread

I'm in out in out shake it all about. do the hockey cokey and you turn around and thats what its all about,
whoooooooo the hockey cokey whooooo the hockey cokey whooooo the hockey cokey
knees bent arm stretched rah rah rah

I'll take that as a signup...

Not sure if there is going to be a seperate signing up thread, but count me in anyway.

Use this thread to sign up please!

As an addition to what I have stated, I will publish a full set of rules that we will use on Sunday when signups close.

 

[elDiablo]

As an addition to what I have stated, I will publish a full set of rules that we will use on Sunday when signups close.

Couldn't post them up, say, a day before could you? So that if I completely disagree with them, I can just opt out? Please?

 

[thatbloke]

if you insist

 

[Ronin Storm]

I agree with a number of the points already raised. Specifically...

The Sheriff is a difficult role. As Piacular points out, it's a death sentence if he's innocent. I had wondered about putting two such roles in, say a Sheriff and a Deputy, both with the same powers; the one can protect the other and the other can protect an innocent. Then the wolves only have a 50:50 on the Sheriff or Deputy at any one moment. Even so, it's pretty bad odds for the Lawmen.

However, I'm in vigorous agreement with elDiablo about the Sheriff not being a Mafioso. The Mafia have two powers already: knowledge of each other and the ability to kill once per night. They really don't need an extra power too unless -- and this is really tenuous -- the ratio of Mafia to Innocents is very high (e.g. 1:5).

In general I'm happy with the veto. I'd go once per game per person as once per night could lead to continued deadlock for lynching. Maybe that deadlock isn't a bad thing? Or maybe, actually, it is...

... as Piacular and I deconstructed parts of TWG2, one of the things that became apparent was that there are two points of excitement per day. First is the morning where you wonder whether you died overnight. Second is the evening where you frantically try to avoid being lynched. Morning is about threat to Innocents. Evening is about threat to Innocents and Mafia. The excitement, I guess, is in living through the threat, possibly against all odds. So, lack of a lynching means the Mafioso are not at risk and they should be.

On the Priest, it's an interesting idea. I played around with a similar one with the Blessed One, except he was just invulnerable to the Wolves and not actually a bomb to them. Your reading adds a touch of chaos to the Mafia's plans, which might be a good thing or might not... worth a try, I say.

Looking forward to the different setting, though.

 

[elDiablo]

In general I'm happy with the veto. I'd go once per game per person as once per night could lead to continued deadlock for lynching. Maybe that deadlock isn't a bad thing? Or maybe, actually, it is...

... as Piacular and I deconstructed parts of TWG2, one of the things that became apparent was that there are two points of excitement per day. First is the morning where you wonder whether you died overnight. Second is the evening where you frantically try to avoid being lynched. Morning is about threat to Innocents. Evening is about threat to Innocents and Mafia. The excitement, I guess, is in living through the threat, possibly against all odds. So, lack of a lynching means the Mafioso are not at risk and they should be.

I didn't know whether to raise this point or not, but veto's are actually another power of the wolves against innocents. If everyone vetos the first night (to avoid the "let's randomly choose someone and see how people react to their death to try and work out who is who") then the mafia actually get a free kill; there is no chance of them getting lynched. This can even (if the wolves are clever and the innocents dumb) go for the wolves, as if all the innocents don't vote, they can ensure that an innocent is lynched by voting for a number of innocents. They need not even vote for the same person, and need not require all of them to vote. It makes them a target for future votes, but they can pretend to be the Seer or whatever.

Still, it's a fun addition, and that's what counts

Though people like Piacular who just want to win will do one of two things now If he is an innocent, he will not vote. If he is a mafian (I like that fake word ), he will try and confuse me (after reading this) by posting as though he were an innocent! So he should die the first night

 

[Dragon]

I'm in! (I just hope that I don't screw up!)


And IMO:

I think a 1:3 ratio alongside with a (hidden) reviver would be quite nice, gives the bad guys some extra thrill

 

[thatbloke]

I'm in! (I just hope that I don't screw up!)


And IMO:

I think a 1:3 ratio alongside with a (hidden) reviver would be quite nice, gives the bad guys some extra thrill

hey that reviver idea sounds like not a bad idea...

hmm. I shall do some thinking methinks

 

[thatbloke]

Update:
The following people have so far explicitly stated in this thread that they will take part:

• elDiablo
• Ronin Storm
• Twisto
• Dragon
• waterproofbob
• Piacular

The following people have so far posted in this thread but have not explicitly said that they wish to take part (yet):

• BiG_D
• [strike]Piacular[/strike]
• K!ller-Mk1

Following on from the discussions in this thread so far I am going to remove the role of the priest from the game.