Egads. sorry I didn't reply sooner, just had a lot on my mind and kinda ended up losing track of how long it'd been.
I'm not saying it should be a hardcore raiding guild (which I've now had to reiterate no less than three times), I simply stated that there are people within the guild that want to see more progress than others. That's pretty much human nature. We know some want more, and some are content. My point was that do we risk losing those that want more. Oftentimes, frustration causes a raid to falter as some aren't quite so keen on pushing forward as others. No one is right or wrong in such a situation - it's simply personal preference. But again as I've said before, if you -do- want to progress then there's nothing wrong with stating so and also wanting to be in the guild.
Gid, you pretty much summed up the entire issue with TS that Angelic was referring to. Stating that people can't be arsed to talk in /g when they have TS is counter-productive. New people to the guild might need to download the application, might even need to sort out some speakers or headphones. As I said before, I simply don't want to sit in this chair and have earphones in for the duration of playing WoW. I enjoy listening to music, or even just having a break from thinking about WoW. I'm sometimes involved in coversations in real life that TS would be detrimental to. I don't want to feel forced into being on TS or else never be a part of a conversation.
I don't know that there's a group of people always on TS as such, but stating that it's everyone else who needs to make the effort because you don't see a problem is not productive. as a community guild, the ingame channe;s have as much reason (if not more) to be alive with conversation than TS. That has been my complaint. I go on TS for raids, but draw the line at casual conversations simply because I can't speak, and thus any response is out of synch with what's been stated.
As regards to keeping in touch with people outside of the guild after they leave: I never stated that as an issue. I only referred to the fact they leave, and that's what I find a shame. Yes you an talk through whispers, but at the end of the day, you're still not as likely to raid with them as you once were, which was pretty much what I was inferring. some rejoin us on alts or occasional forays, but for the most part, they don't raid with us again.
I don't want the guild to change in any dramatic way, I just want some people to be aware that with such disparate interests and aims the guild as a whole needs more flexibility than some are willing to accept it has. It's one thing to state and reiterate that we're not a hardcore raiding guild, but how many of our core raiders are happy with not downing the Lich King? This is when the compromises need to be looked at. where do we draw a line? As a casual raiding guild, we should state that x boss is where we stop, and never go beyond. That's what a casual raid should be. Often this does happen, but we also get the runs where we spend hourse trying (or succeeding) to make progress. casual raids don't take on the Lich King. The very fact we not only do so, but also have the people to down him (even if it's not happened yet) suggest to me that it's foolish to tar everyone in the raid as a casual.
Alas, even with such hyperbole, there's little that can be suggested that would be considered workable. Not least because all the best solutions/suggestions are compromises. They in themselves are often seen as something 'dirty' or else 'giving in'. But sometimes, a compromise is the best solution and the most balanced.
If people have suggestions about how we raid, or how we improve a given situation, it should never be ignored, as I'm sure we'll reach an agreeable conclusion eventually. at least, that's my hope.
I'm also glad to see so many replies. Any and all comments will only aid in allowing us to move on and see what concerns there may well be.
