Xbox 360 and/or PS3 and HDTV

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
So, there I was randomly browsing Gamespot when I came across a neat looking game by the name Chromehounds (link to Gamespot). As far as I can tell, you get to build your own mech and then battle with it online. While Mechwarrior 4 degenerated into gauss rifle and LRM battles, for the most part, I'm hopeful that they've got a better balance for this one.

Anyways, that's not the point of this thread...

So, there I was browsing this stuff and thinking about how my PS2 will shortly become relegated to the "obsolete" pile as people stop producing A-list games for it. Arguably, they may have stopped that already, but there are still some recent titles (Resident Evil 4 leaps immediately to mind) that are excellent on it. I've enjoyed my PS2 and I welcome the change from PC games, so I'm wondering about getting a next-gen console. I don't believe that there's any point choosing something other than the Xbox 360 or the PS3... I've scanned the games lists and reviews on the other consoles and they simply don't seem to have the weight behind them. It'd be like choosing a Mac to play games, and that'd be crazy.

Before I go much further down this route, though, I wonder whether, in buying one of these consoles, I pretty much have to get myself a HDTV too, or whether I'd not really be missing much. At the moment I have just about the cheapest colour stereo TV I could buy from around three years ago. I don't watch TV (at all) and almost all my DVDs I watch on a PC so I don't really care about TV quality... but I do get the impression that I'm selling myself short on the graphical quality of my PS2 games, never mind next-gen stuff.

So, the question:

If I buy an Xbox 360 or a PS3, must I or should I also be buying an HDTV?
 
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Phryxus

Guest
There are 2 or so people that actually have a 360 on THN, so they can probably give you more concrete advice than I can, but I'm pretty sure that without HDTV, you miss some of the bells and whistles that make the next-gen titles look nice and shiny, like next-gen titles should. From the various reviews i've been reading, it doesn't sound like the drop in visual fidelity is going to totally ruin the game - gameplay, after all, is the primary concern - but the resolution is likely to be much lower and the clarity is going to suffer to some degree, dependent upon your TV.

Whilst some people mention the difference, making a large point about it, on a smaller TV you might not see a great difference, so you might be fine after all. Perhaps as an alternative, you could buy a cable to use your PC monitor (if it's any good) as the display for your console? A standard PC monitor is more than likely going to be able to provide a higher resolution (although I presume it also depends on age and type) so that might be the way to go, at least for the exclusively developed titles, not the early ports that are around for the 360 at the moment.

I'll more than likely be getting a 360 of my own in about 2 to 3 weeks, so if I end up with one before you buy into the next-gen race I can test it and see.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not buying imminently, but I'm wondering about it over the next 6 months or so... faster if I get bored with PC games more. ;)
 
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Phryxus

Guest
Ok, in that case the only thing that might affect your choice would be the larger volume of specifically developed games that should be available by the time you get one. At the moment, for the 360 at least (no idea about the PS3's launch line-up) there are mostly ported games available, like Tomb Raider: Legend and some more. There are a few optimised games, such as Oblivion and Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, that show off more of what the system can do, but mostly they're not exploiting the capabilities to the fullest - not really making an excessive visual leap.

If you're going to leave it for quite a long time, then you might want to consider holding off a bit longer until the PS3 shows what it can do as well, by which time you'll probably have a better TV :) although i'm pretty sure that was your intention anyway!
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Phryxus said:
by which time you'll probably have a better TV anyway

I wouldn't count on it. :) When I say I watch "no TV", I really mean it. It's not even plugged into the aerial. I get a few TV series via other channels (Battlestar Galactica, Stargate: Atlantis, etc) but if they're any good I also buy them on DVD later on so I figure that doesn't count much.
 
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Phryxus

Guest
Oh ok, in that case, pester Decky or Tetsuo to give you the real heads-up as to how much of a difference it makes. I remember when I had to play games on my Xbox using an RGB connector, as my TV was about 8 inches wide and was so old it didn't have a SCART socket. It was quite fuzzy at times and I still don't know how I managed to play split-screen Halo co-op with my brother and actually see anything. The sound was terrible and it made quite a big difference when my parents bought me a bigger and newer TV - not really graphics wise (obviously, because the console was the same - silly me!) but the experience was much better.

If this is the case for HD or no HD, as i've had time to think about it, it might detract from the experience a little - maybe taking you 'out of the game', which you really don't want to be doing when you're playing something involving. In that case i think the Monitor as TV proposal sounds a little better (although you would miss out on having a huge screen and lounging on your sofa a few tens of metres away, whilst still being able to see perfectly :))
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
Right, I'll give that some thought. The console and my monitors are separated... I watch DVDs on my work laptop, in no small part because it has a widescreen (mmm, Dell XPS) so I'd probably need some sort of adapter to be able to receive the TV signal... but that can't be out of the question and may well be cheaper than an HDTV. Thanks for the thought! :)
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
The cavalry hath arrived! Im a bit tired at the moment so Im going to just make this a to-the-point excercise.

Ive played my X360 on a 15" cheapo mono-sound TV for 4 months (too long) and for the most part its just fine for playing games. However, there's a broad, broad line between 'fine' and 'the standard that you want'. The picture on my telly will get you by fine when playing most games (especially simpler ones like PGR3 and FNR3) but when you start to get games that are cluttered and fancy and require long view distances (eg. BF2:MC and Oblivion, where you are looking out for enemies on the horizon), the 15" is really pushing it. When playing online, more often than not I've been sniped by dudes I couldn't even see, hiding somewhere between two pixels (it's not an excuse, it's real life :)).

However, the bonus that I can see for myself here is that when I upgrade to an HDTV, Im really going to appreciate the difference more than if I had just plonked it straight through HDTV in the first place. I think you should probably do the same. Get your console, have a gander at it through regular telly, and then upgrade and bask in the glory. Is HDTV completely necessary? No. However, would it be worthwhile getting an HDTV? Hell yes.

I have had a little bit of a go on an HDTV in shops and the like. Picture quality? Out of this world. Especially games like Tiger Woods where the grass was rendered in perfect detail, and PGR3 where the motion blur was really something. I can't wait to see Oblivion in HD.

Incidentally, Ive completely dropped the idea of buying a new PC in favour of getting an HDTV and a PS3. C'est la vie :/
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
BUMP!

Ok, further to my post above, I purchased an HDTV on Tuesday :) Its a 32" offering from Mirai, which I first saw in my local PC store. They had a Media Center PC displayed on it and it looked mint, the price was also very attractive at only £600. But anyway, Ive got it put up in my room now (soon to be hanging from the wall) and its all hooked up to the three-sixty and stuff.

The lowdown:

Its really really big. Finally I can watch movies and play games without having to put my head against the screen and zooming in with a magnifying glass. To put it into perspective, I was playing PGR3 split-screen last night and yet my half-tv view was still 3 times the size of the full screen of my previous telly. So its big.

Picture wise, it depends what you are doing with it. The first thing I played through the TV was a my PS2 (using a SCART connection). It wasnt really very impressive, the colours were faded and the edges were quite blurry. Thats not to say that it wasnt better than regular TV, but with a bit of manipulation I could get it better. I think I still had to set up the TV correctly to accept the picture and stuff, but it was still a bit dodgy. Maybe it was just because it was a low-res image stretched over a large area and I was being overly critical, I dunno. I tried a movie through it as well, which was a bit better but the colour balance was hard to fix.

After about half an hour of fiddling with picture size and sharpness I decided 'screw this' and I whacked my X360 through it (using the HD YPbPr connection. And what a difference. Firstly, the TV seems to automatically optimise the picture itself so that the colour balance and brightness are perfect, as well as making the picture fit perfectly to the screen. Secondly, the detail is amazing. On Fight Night, the picture was so ultimately perfect that the boxers looked real. Like, real. And the replays on the Nurburgring in PGR3 were breathtaking, as the camera swooped through the forests following the car. Quite amazing. And FINALLY, I can see enemies when playing BF2 online :) no more getting sniped from invisible campers.

Later I tried a movie through it again, but this time using the X360. The picture quality was greatly enhanced, and the picture size was adjusted to fit the screen better. Now I can watch my bed-time movies in style 8)

As far as sound quality goes, pretty good actually. It has pretty decent bass and volume, and the sound is quite evenly moderated through the various levels i.e. you can hear voices clearly, but at the same time get a decent bass and treble through the same speaker.

Another thing about having a big telly is that now my bedroom is the designated footie-watching locale :) Unfortunately, the football suffered from much the same problem as my PS2, in that it was really hard to find the settings for a good picture. Also, my TV aerial is busted at the moment so I had a Doc Brown style contraption hanging out my window trying desperately to fish for some signal. Unluckily, the rain came on and put my pseudo-Ion Cannon Uplink out of action slightly. However, it was great when the picture cleared up and I could appreciate the big pub-telly style picture it offered (but without the scary, sweaty men and the 'get it up ye!' chants. Actually come to think of it, Andy fit that bill quite nicely).

Last but not least, I discovered a neat gizmo on the TV about halfway through the game - Picture in Picture. So, I had the game on the main screen, with a decent resolution square of X360 goodness in the bottom right. That was quite cool for about five minutes, Im sure Ill be able to think of a practical use for that in future.

Anyway, overall Im very pleased. Probably 8/10 from me, which is rather good for a budget HDTV. Im gonna go home tonight and see if I can manipulate the settings better for normal telly.
 

MadGinga

In Cryo Sleep
Tetsuo_Shima said:
Its a 32" offering from Mirai, which I first saw in my local PC store. They had a Media Center PC displayed on it and it looked mint, the price was also very attractive at only £600.

Argh, I want a HDTV, whats the exact make/model? Must find £600 from somewhere :(
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
MadGinga said:
Argh, I want a HDTV, whats the exact make/model? Must find £600 from somewhere :(

Here she is, Mirai 32" HDTV. Its a great deal, methinks. And Id say just as good as most of the more expensive options out there (yes, Im looking at you, Sony Bravia). I cant really make a judgement about how good it is compared to the rest of the market, because I aint never seen any other ones (except for an outrageously good 42"Pioneer offering in Comet, but that cost 2500). Actually, just to make that point: If you want a decent HDTV for low price, go Mirai or Samsung. If you want the best available, go Pioneer every time.
 

decky101

In Cryo Sleep
Well my friend, I have tried and tested both methods on both types of screens: my Pc monitor (sort of an adapted TV) and my TV in my bedroom and honestly, if you are a purist, I would advise going for the HDTV. To be honest it's not necessary, but the difference between the two images is noticable. Tell me this, would you want to spend around £300 on a brand-new console so that then you have to spend 5x just to get a HDTV. Personally, at my age, I struggled enough to get themoney for the console, let alone get the money for A new TV as well.

Some people feel that if your going to get a new next-gen console you might as well splash out on a new TV to match. My philosophy is that if you can't afford it, don't get it.

Sorry if that's a bit too blunt for your liking, but that's just the way I feel about the whole concept. I also know that I will probably end up getting a HDTV as well, but not for a while yet. I'm fine with my own 28-inch widescreen in my room. It's almost, but not quite, as good. :D
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
decky101 said:
Personally, at my age, I struggled enough to get themoney for the console

To be honest, I'm twice as old as you and I'm struggling to afford the console, never mind the HDTV!

decky101 said:
my Pc monitor (sort of an adapted TV) and my TV in my bedroom

Sorry, wasn't quite sure where you were going with that. Is you TV just a normal non-HD TV? If so, which was better... the PC monitor or the TV, for you?
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
Ronin Storm said:
To be honest, I'm twice as old as you and I'm struggling to afford the console, never mind the HDTV!

Well I'm between the pair of you, and RICH! :) Thats what happens when you have a job, but no bills to pay :D

Decky - I'd agree with you there. Don't stretch your budget to try and fit in an HDTV, it isnt a necessity. Its good, very good, but you definitely wont need one to get a lot out of the ol' 360. Maybe if you can do a decky and find an obscure way of putting it through your PC monitor then maybe you could get a flavour of HDness.

HDTVs will probably drop in price again soon, since obscenely large HDTVs are starting to hit the market. Perhaps if you hold off for a bit you'll be able to get one for a knock-down price.
 

MoTo^

In Cryo Sleep
Well, having just bought an HDTV and having already had a XBOX 360 for a while I just thought I'd share my opinions too.
First of all we used to have a standard 29" Sony CRT TV, which did the job I guess, but I would always notice small things like none of the text was really sharp enough, and in some cases you couldnt even read it properly, and sometimes there would be a red tint on the edges of some objects etc. But overall nothing too serious really.
Now with the HDTV I have to say the difference is HUGE, everything looks extremely sharp and all the colours and everything are richer and better. But I have to say we did dish out quite a bit and practically bought one of the best LCD TVs around, it's the 37" Philips 37PF9830, with a resolution of 1920x1080, which is the highest you can buy I think. It really is a stunning TV, and the AmbiLight just has to be seen.
As a kind of comparison I made this, the left being what my old TV would look like and the right the new one:
tv1qc.jpg


I'd say I'm not really even exaggerating, that's how big the difference is. And when you consider that some text will be smaller than others, specially if the TV's not that big then sometimes you really will have a hard time reading stuff. Again this kind of shows what I mean:
tv6zg.jpg

But I think the point is if you've never played on an HDTV you'd probably be quite happy with a normal one, but once you see the difference you wouldn't really ever go back to playing on anything else.
 

decky101

In Cryo Sleep
See, my pc monitor is alot better for the quality of the image but for accessability, it's not very good. My pc monitor is more of a tv screen that has some extra fittings so it can be used as a pc monitor.

To be honest, I would rather run mi 360 through the Pc Monitor than have to shed out more precious cash on a HDTV. At the minute, my total income per week is £8. This is barely enough t buy a frigging CD!!! So now you can see why it's soooo hard for me to afford one.
 

Tetsuo_Shima

In Cryo Sleep
MoTo^ said:
But I have to say we did dish out quite a bit and practically bought one of the best LCD TVs around, it's the 37" Philips 37PF9830, with a resolution of 1920x1080, which is the highest you can buy I think. It really is a stunning TV, and the AmbiLight just has to be seen.

Thats quite interesting, I haven't ever found an HDTV that can display at resolutions over 1366x784 (as mine does) even though I've been looking for one. Even the very best Pioneer screens I looked at are still 1366x784, and they looked fantastic. So does that mean you can display in 1080p settings on your 360? If you do, I envy you my lad :)
Although, I'm very happy with my current screen; it is extremely sharp like you say. In PGR3, on my old telly, I couldnt read much of the car blurb, and now I can read it from the other side of the room (and very interesting blurb it is, too).
I also have to EXCLAIM about how good Oblivion looks on HDTVs. Surprisingly, the interiors look better than the outside. The caves and forts all look so believable, and the lighting effects are made really nice and smooth. It all be good.
 

MoTo^

In Cryo Sleep
Tetsuo_Shima said:
So does that mean you can display in 1080p settings on your 360?

Yup :D
And ye this particular model was the about the only 1920x1080 TV we found which is why we went for it. We thought it's better to invest in something that will be future proof with true HD :)
 
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