3.2 and level 60 raiding; the beginnings of a plan!

Would you be interested in participating in this level 60 raiding?

  • Total voters
    32
Razaak

Razaak

Well-Known Member
I f**ing LOVE this idea. Getting 40 people to do it will be a challenge, but it'll be worth it when we step inside Molten Core with those 40. Now all we need to do is persuade Blizzard to put the old Naxx back in the plaguelands...

I have a character slot open for a mage, shammie, druid or rofldin, and would be happy to kill their XP at 60 when I get there. Whatever is most needed :)

* and there goes my ultimate aim of all classes to 80 on this server :p *

I do remember reading a short while back about a guild called <Sixty> - can't remember which server, might have been Defias Brotherhood - who all had accounts that didn't have TBC and WotLK enabled, so they couldn't level over 60, and had the same aims - raiding with old world enchants, gear, and limitations on specs to make them as similar as possible to what was available pre-TBC, so nothing past the 31-point talents...
 
Windzarko

Windzarko

Well-Known Member
Larul said:
Reaxin will be your tankadin just so you know :D
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Awesome, I get the feeling that tanks will be the more problematic of the three roles. DPS won't be much of an issue, and healers will be doable.

Since 3.2 has hit today, we can start working towards this now. I'll be making a secondary guild some time in the next few days that will have a guild bank for holding rep items, tradeskill materials, recipes, etc that would only be needlessly cluttering up what little space we have left in The Haven's guild bank.

You won't have to be in this secondary guild to attend the alt raids, although you can be if you want. Before anyone raises concerns, I have zero intent to cause any kind of split or division in the community with this secondary guild; the two reasons for it are the Gbank, and likely to have a funny guild tag for some of the members of this raiding effort.

Possible names include:
The Floor Cows (or The Floorcows)
The Vanilla Thrillers
Nostalgic Numbskulls
 
Razaak

Razaak

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see some reference to The Haven or THN in the new guild name... how about The Haven LX (LX being the Roman numeral for 60, ofc) ?
 
Huung

Huung

Well-Known Member
I like The Haven LX, sounds good!

I'd be up for these, with anything that isn't a DK, shammy or druid :)
 
Skcornnelg

Skcornnelg

Member
I back Raz' 'LX' idea. Don't like Floorcows.

'THN'

'Havenites'

'Haven Can Wait'

'Vanilla Haven'

Bad, but my 2c. I think we should have some reference to the main Guild.
 
Firebuggy

Firebuggy

In Cryo Sleep
I am interested in joining in i am even lvling a warrior atm (about lvl 40 and gaining fast he he he) so maybe could be a tankie Argh ;) and gonna do a warlock as well ........ and maybe a paladin would they be allowed i assume so? Great idea btw. I wasnt around in the good old days so will be a brand new experiance for me.
 
C

Corenith

In Cryo Sleep
If anyone has some low level ore they don't need I would be more than happy to purchase it off you to give my Blacksmithing a headstart :)
 
Angelic

Angelic

Active Member
Right, here are my thoughts on the subject, as semi-discussed with NicNac yesterday:


  • Attendance - we are struggling at having two Ulduar groups (or at least we were before our newest raiding schedule), which have the added attraction factor of phat lewts and actually being "endgame". What makes us thing we'll be able to gather nearly 40 people for Molten Core or the like?
  • It's not Vanilla - the classes as they are even at 60 vastly different from what they were in Vanilla at 60. The encounters are designed and tuned for them as they WERE, not as they are now. In this sense, the "nostalgia" factor will be hardly fully fulfilled, as the classes will be just very different, as will be some of the gear.
  • Synergies - I'm not quite sure if this could be a problem, but with only 51 talent points we will be weird. Some essential synergies will have to go in vain, because we won't have enough tp to use them. The talent trees are mostly designed to make sense for lvl80 characters and might fall apart when tested heavily on lower levels. We will also miss some essential spells/abilities (I'm thinking Divine Plea for tankadins, Shadowfiend, Prayer of Mending, stuff like that that makes the class click in its current state).

Now I know some of these (well, the latter two) points are not rock-solid and may very well not be an issue, but I got slightly concerned about them and thought I'd share them with you :) Because other than them (and mostly the attendance thingy) I'd very much like to enjoy some Old World action!

Angel
 
Windzarko

Windzarko

Well-Known Member
Angelic said:
Attendance - we are struggling at having two Ulduar groups (or at least we were before our newest raiding schedule), which have the added attraction factor of phat lewts and actually being "endgame". What makes us thing we'll be able to gather nearly 40 people for Molten Core or the like?
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting we run before we can crawl; 20-mans would be the first aim. And something like this is somewhat less hardcore, less demanding, than Ulduar and the like. It'd be open to people in guild and out of guild, and there's plenty of interest. I'm not saying we'd be instantly ramping up to 40 awesome level 60s pimped out in the finest Vanilla has to offer. But I do think we can at least have some fun trying.

That's the point of this entire venture; to try, and to have fun.

It's not Vanilla - the classes as they are even at 60 vastly different from what they were in Vanilla at 60. The encounters are designed and tuned for them as they WERE, not as they are now. In this sense, the "nostalgia" factor will be hardly fully fulfilled, as the classes will be just very different, as will be some of the gear.
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I know they are different. I've been here since 1.6 or so, I've seen the classes grow and change with each patch and expansion, and I've run some level 60-ish 5-mans with a group of 3 people and not had that much trouble. I'm fully aware that we're stronger and the instances are no longer tuned quite to us. I know we can never get quite the same experience as before.

But this is exactly why there'd be certain restrictions and measures; the not allowing gear, enchants or consumables from Outland or above, the not allowing unglyphed knockback abilities, the restricting of the number of DKs and banning some of their abilities (and possibly abilities of other classes, depending). We can never get it to exactly how Vanilla was, but we can get close, and we can try and make it a challenge, try to keep it fun.

Also, to address the fact that even with these restrictions we'd be inherently stronger than we would've been back then in the same scenario, we'd try taking fewer people than was intended for any given raid to try and balance it out; 15 people to ZG, 30 to MC, for example. That could be increased of decreased to try and find a sweet spot, and would also cut down on the numbers issues from your first point.

Again, for emphasis; we'll never get back to Vanilla with these efforts. But we can get close, we can try and have fun with it, and that's what really counts, right?

Synergies - I'm not quite sure if this could be a problem, but with only 51 talent points we will be weird. Some essential synergies will have to go in vain, because we won't have enough tp to use them. The talent trees are mostly designed to make sense for lvl80 characters and might fall apart when tested heavily on lower levels. We will also miss some essential spells/abilities (I'm thinking Divine Plea for tankadins, Shadowfiend, Prayer of Mending, stuff like that that makes the class click in its current state).
Click to expand...

I know some abilities will be missing, and I know that we'll be restricted on talent points. But that in itself is a challenge, isn't it? Will you spec only for one tree to get your 51 point talent? Will you sacrifice that final talent in order to spec into two trees? I know not everyone is as interested in theorycrafting as me, but I do think that people can have some fun playing around with these restrictions to see what they can come up with, and it may well make for some more unique and individualistic arrays of talents than we normally get to see.

Also, I know that the lack of certain abilities may severely hinder some classes, and if it's the case that it's a critical flaw for a given class/spec to lack certain abilities while we try this raiding, we could always try to compensate a bit by lifting a couple of restrictions (allowing certain otherwise-banned consumables, gear or enchants to help alleviate the problems).

Now I know some of these (well, the latter two) points are not rock-solid and may very well not be an issue, but I got slightly concerned about them and thought I'd share them with you :) Because other than them (and mostly the attendance thingy) I'd very much like to enjoy some Old World action!
Click to expand...

They're all very valid concerns, and ones that occurred to me as well. I'm certain that there are ways to deal with most of the possible problems in one way or another, and at the end of the day, the ultimate objective is for us to have fun, not to have a 100% accurate vanilla nostalgia experience; we'll make adjustments to keep it all fun!


Finally, to address a query that's been sent my way by various people:
Yes, I am still planning on doing all of this, even if I've been very quiet about it. The reason I've been seemingly doing nothing about it is that with the release of 3.2, I know that many people are eager to play on their main characters, adapt to the changes, gather Conquest emblems for level 80 gear or more Heirloom items for their alts, etc. I've been waiting for everything to die down a bit before launching anything major.

At the moment, we're looking pretty reasonable on numbers, with the only thing we might be lacking being tanks (in a 40-man context, at least; we might be okay for 20-mans), but that's not too harsh of an issue at present. Many people are levelling up quite rapidly and will likely be ready before too long. Once we have enough people in the level range where they can run, say, Strat/Scholo/DM, then that'll likely be the point at which everything can be put together more seriously.
 
Silk

Silk

Well-Known Member
If you really want vanilla, outright ban on DK's and Paladins ;)

Ah.. however did we cope..

p.s. Since we are an RP realm you could consider having a Hero to help your struggling band through instances (the Hero being a level 80). Might be required once you start considering MC and find yourself 10-20 level 60's short.
 
Gidean

Gidean

In Cryo Sleep
Just coming in at the end of this thred it seems but i gotta say..i love it! i recall gearing up with 0.5 sets to get in Mc and then up untill we could get past the 1st room in BWL, with the occasional Ony thrown in for extra headgear goodness! it was the great old days and why the game is so loved now in my opinion.
Only problems i see are as already stated...have no idea how we could get 40 people without puggin and ...we used to wipe all the times "with" 40... so any less would b suicide!
Also as for people freekin out about the talent trees? maybe u forget just how little of the talents we had back then? dont moan about not having the latest and greatest if at that point mages were using there wands for half the fighs!

Ill definatly keep my eye out for this project, nice one lith
 
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