General Moaning
- Thread starter Pwnstar
- Start date
Having just failed to do Onyxia 10 man in a guild run I think we need to set expectations a little more appropriately
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
Having just failed to do Onyxia 10 man in a guild run I think we need to set expectations a little more appropriately
Agreed
Angelic
Active Member
In the very least, everyone should have full triumph gear (cuz it's so easy to get) and everything that suits your class from heroics (cuz they are so easy to grind). Along with knowing what is good for your class/spec (for which one can use EJ) that should give us enough gear to do ICC10... Oh, and watch tankspot videos of all the fights.
Huung
Well-Known Member
But this requires effort/more than 10 minutes of gameplay per day/reading and watching things outside of the game. Hence only a handful of us do it.
Hey
You don't even need to leave the game to learn fight strategies.. or even to know if a upgrade is an upgrade.. or even if the gems you are using are right... two add-ons that do that for you
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/elitistgroup.aspx --- tells you about whether you have the right gear and gems/enchants
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/boss-tactics.aspx --- tells you about the boss fights..
(not suggesting that this should become practise ... but just saying that because it is outside the game should not be used as an excuse)
All in game!
Lideon
You don't even need to leave the game to learn fight strategies.. or even to know if a upgrade is an upgrade.. or even if the gems you are using are right... two add-ons that do that for you
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/elitistgroup.aspx --- tells you about whether you have the right gear and gems/enchants
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/boss-tactics.aspx --- tells you about the boss fights..
(not suggesting that this should become practise ... but just saying that because it is outside the game should not be used as an excuse)
All in game!
Lideon
Sabbath
In Cryo Sleep
Would like to do ICC 10 or 25 some time next week if it gets organized, Ive cleared ICC10 but would like to do with the guild and if possible a guild run to ICC 25 only if there is enough people, but also happy with ToC 10/25.
Most people are geared just the tacts are a problem i think, as i think nearly every one has full tier 9 gear, i mean i have full tier 9 tanking and healing set and 2 tier 9, 2 tier 9.5 and 3 item lvls 251 on my Hunter, with all my other pieces don't go under 213 what is my worst piece.
Most people are geared just the tacts are a problem i think, as i think nearly every one has full tier 9 gear, i mean i have full tier 9 tanking and healing set and 2 tier 9, 2 tier 9.5 and 3 item lvls 251 on my Hunter, with all my other pieces don't go under 213 what is my worst piece.
Wubb
In Cryo Sleep
Hey i do think we all need to step up!
Im not sure how i can go about gearing outside of raids anymore, i am saving frost emblems and bought everything i can with triumph, i now have 106 triumph lying around probablly going to be used for gems.
i am now bored of HC's and am lvling a mage!
Im not sure how i can go about gearing outside of raids anymore, i am saving frost emblems and bought everything i can with triumph, i now have 106 triumph lying around probablly going to be used for gems.
i am now bored of HC's and am lvling a mage!
You guys have probably noticed that i have been spending alot of time on my Paladin lately, this is because theres not much more i can do on my Warlock. His gear is ok but cant really upgrade without raiding. I only have 1 pice of T9 but thats because im pretty sure only the Chest is better than what i already have and if i replace it i will lose the T8.5 bonus. Im pretty sure my Average item level is about 232 with a few under and a few over. Basically the point im tryin to make is after all this in a raid my DPS is still shit! On a target Dummy i hit 4k which is good and in a Tank and spank situation (For example the constructor b4 adds come in i was hittin 5.2) ... But in a typical raid buffed out my head i hit like 3-4k ish which is shit ... I dont know what im doing wrong here im pretty certain my Rotation is perfect and so is my Talent spec but if some1 could maybe suggest a few points here that would be great ... I thought maybe it might be because my imolate ticks over whilst im not doing damage to the target which may decrease it but who knows eh ... Anyway if some1 could send me a private messege or wisp me in game that would be great
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
And that is exactly what we need people to be doing.
I'll find someone in the guild who is a Destro lock and ask them to have a chat and give you some pointers
Ahey,
That's... a bit misplaced. If you look at my gear level, it's probably way under other priests out there. I have a couple of pieces of 213 (T7.5) and several pieces of 219 (T8). I'm only now breaking +3k SP fully raid-buffed on Holy.
I don't grind Heroics. Never did. I bought at most one single piece of Triumph gear, never having had enough badges for more. I have a total of about 40 Frost badges. And yet, one way or another, people still consider me a very solid and dependable healer.
Yes, gear is important, but it's not the be-all-end-all of high end raiding. Knowing your class well is much more important. Learning to replace purple fever with a constructive attitude, like, say, Astroid's, is a step in the right direction. Half an hour of research trumps ten hours of gear/badge/rep grind.
The one single most important thing, however, is to realize that "my rotation" is definitely the right start, but if you're stopping there, you're cripling yourself. You need to know how to work your class in as many different groups as possible. You need to know what to do in a given fight if, say, you're the only melee DPS in the group, or the only caster, or the only CC-capable character, and you need to know what to do if you're one among many. Chances are it's not going to be the same exact thing.
These are the sort of instincts that only come with reading as many sites out there as possible, and then seeing it work in actual 10- and 25-man raids. If you really want to learn your class in depth, go spend time reading and talking with people, then go PUG basic raids, like Ulduar or even Naxx, and experiment.
Gear is not a substitute for hours spent raiding.
Cheers,
J.
That's... a bit misplaced. If you look at my gear level, it's probably way under other priests out there. I have a couple of pieces of 213 (T7.5) and several pieces of 219 (T8). I'm only now breaking +3k SP fully raid-buffed on Holy.
I don't grind Heroics. Never did. I bought at most one single piece of Triumph gear, never having had enough badges for more. I have a total of about 40 Frost badges. And yet, one way or another, people still consider me a very solid and dependable healer.
Yes, gear is important, but it's not the be-all-end-all of high end raiding. Knowing your class well is much more important. Learning to replace purple fever with a constructive attitude, like, say, Astroid's, is a step in the right direction. Half an hour of research trumps ten hours of gear/badge/rep grind.
The one single most important thing, however, is to realize that "my rotation" is definitely the right start, but if you're stopping there, you're cripling yourself. You need to know how to work your class in as many different groups as possible. You need to know what to do in a given fight if, say, you're the only melee DPS in the group, or the only caster, or the only CC-capable character, and you need to know what to do if you're one among many. Chances are it's not going to be the same exact thing.
These are the sort of instincts that only come with reading as many sites out there as possible, and then seeing it work in actual 10- and 25-man raids. If you really want to learn your class in depth, go spend time reading and talking with people, then go PUG basic raids, like Ulduar or even Naxx, and experiment.
Gear is not a substitute for hours spent raiding.
Cheers,
J.
Angelic
Active Member
And yet, without gear you cannot hope to down bosses further down in high-end dungeons. I value your insight into your class, Zooggy, and it's good to hear people consider you a dependable healer, but that doesn't change the fact that gear is a very imporant factor when it comes to raiding. Surely, this is one of the most basic premises of most MMORPGs out there, with WoW bearing the flag. And another thing to note is that you are a healer, so your performance is difficult to measure, but it's different for dpses. I'm sure we've had this discussion somewhere else at some other time, but knowing your class (which IS essential, I should know that) is not an excuse for lack of preparation and poor gearing.
Skcornnelg
Member
If people are still unsure about their performance/gear/abilities/class how about assigning an individual or two for people to approach for help or advice.
You could have for example
Rogue: Sabat/Sasser
Mage: Enya
Paladin: Ret - Ari, Prot - T-bone, Holy - Me/Marqo
Priest: Disc/Holy - Zooggy, Shadow - Gidean
These are just some examples but you get the idea. At least then if someone is unsure how to continue with their class they could approach the right person for some tips and pointers.
I suggest this becuase I have no problem helping out any potenitial Holydin.
Glenn
You could have for example
Rogue: Sabat/Sasser
Mage: Enya
Paladin: Ret - Ari, Prot - T-bone, Holy - Me/Marqo
Priest: Disc/Holy - Zooggy, Shadow - Gidean
These are just some examples but you get the idea. At least then if someone is unsure how to continue with their class they could approach the right person for some tips and pointers.
I suggest this becuase I have no problem helping out any potenitial Holydin.
Glenn
Hoy,
This. I readily concede this point.
Also, to be clear, I naturally grant that experience alone is no substitute for proper gear. I was just making the point that gear is no substitue for knowledge, either. To be a successful high end raider, you need a healthy dose of both.
Cheers,
J.
This. I readily concede this point.
Also, to be clear, I naturally grant that experience alone is no substitute for proper gear. I was just making the point that gear is no substitue for knowledge, either. To be a successful high end raider, you need a healthy dose of both.
Cheers,
J.
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
It's ok telling people to pug stuff but if you don't have the full set of ilvl over 9000 gear then you just don't get invited to pugs anymore due to the whole Gearscore and "U MUST LINK ACHI" attitudes that permeate the whole of WoW nowadays.
Indeed the best thing people can do if they think they could be doing better is ask others who are doing better, get some pugs going and try some new things out.
The other thing to remember is that if people start offering you advice/tips on how to make yourself a better player, that is all it is. It is not those people telling you that you are a nub that needs to l2p, it is in fact that situation that they are helping you to avoid
Unfortunately way too many people now have reduced WoW to a min/max set of numbers and unless you are already at or very near to the max then they won't play with you. That is their right, but if you are in THN they probably aren't the kind of people you want to be playing with anyway.
If I see people who I think are underperforming (struggling as a healer, being a particularly squishy or non-aggro inducing tank, not doing enough DPS etc.) then I'll start asking others to have a chat with you or help where I can to try and figure out how we can turn you into a better WoW player - please DO NOT take it as a personal attack in any way, it is not meant to be, it is instead meant as constructive criticism and helpful advice
And remember the most important rule of WoW: DO NOT STAND IN THE <insert colour> <insert shape>!!!
Indeed the best thing people can do if they think they could be doing better is ask others who are doing better, get some pugs going and try some new things out.
The other thing to remember is that if people start offering you advice/tips on how to make yourself a better player, that is all it is. It is not those people telling you that you are a nub that needs to l2p, it is in fact that situation that they are helping you to avoid
Unfortunately way too many people now have reduced WoW to a min/max set of numbers and unless you are already at or very near to the max then they won't play with you. That is their right, but if you are in THN they probably aren't the kind of people you want to be playing with anyway.
If I see people who I think are underperforming (struggling as a healer, being a particularly squishy or non-aggro inducing tank, not doing enough DPS etc.) then I'll start asking others to have a chat with you or help where I can to try and figure out how we can turn you into a better WoW player - please DO NOT take it as a personal attack in any way, it is not meant to be, it is instead meant as constructive criticism and helpful advice
And remember the most important rule of WoW: DO NOT STAND IN THE <insert colour> <insert shape>!!!
Dr Drae
In Cryo Sleep
Psychadelic penis?And remember the most important rule of WoW: DO NOT STAND IN THE <insert colour> <insert shape>!!!
Sabbath
In Cryo Sleep
Well tbh i have done alot of reseach on hunters, and when i was at my previous spec/gear i was doing about 3.5k average in random heroics, and now i have respecced and gemmed im doing 4k + dps, sometimes 5k+ on bosses, even if sasser didnt agree
Btw how do people measure their dps? Do they use current fight or overall data?
Btw how do people measure their dps? Do they use current fight or overall data?