How not to suck at Cata
- Thread starter thatbloke
- Start date
Hey, 
Two completely different things:
These two concepts are entirely unrelated. If I'm DPSing and my DPS is steadily going up with every raid because I'm learning and gearing up and whatnot, and if my goal is to strive to be the best I can be, then I think I'm on my way, even if I'm 6th in the DPS meters. On the other hand, if my DPS is completely stagnant or even going down at times, then I'm failing miserably, even if I'm at the top of the meters.
Striving to be the best you can be is the point of the game, for me, as it is for you as well. Striving to be at the top of the meters, some times at the expense of good game play, even, is misplaced competitiveness. For all intents and purposes, WoW raiding is not (supposed to be) a competitive game, but a cooperative one. For instance, a good DPS player might some times "waste" some cooldowns on utility or CC casts that lower their personal DPS, while still contributing to group success. In fights that are not DPS races, for instance, hybrid DPSers would do good to throw a heal or two out there if the damage intake is being high. I know of people that do this and it makes a difference. (You know who you are and this is my way of saying thanks.)
That said, however:
This. Most emphatically this. This should be forcibly engraved with hot irons into the insides of the eye lids of every Haven raider out there!
I wish people would get off the "casual guild" high horse already, especially when most of it comes back to being attributed to me, in one way or another. There are certain things I won't stand for, such as DKP, or kicking people from the guild for not showing up for raids, or stuff like that, but that doesn't mean the raid team has to be complacent about bad playing or failing to sign up.
Like Pirate is fond of saying, "do better"!
Or, alternatively, stick to Community ranks, PUG a few raids here and there for laughs, show up for alt runs (they'll come back when Cata raid hits, I'm sure), and be chill. You'll still be welcome in /g. (Just remember not to be a prick when you PUG raids wearing the Haven guild tag, ey...? )
Cheers,
J.
Two completely different things:
These two concepts are entirely unrelated. If I'm DPSing and my DPS is steadily going up with every raid because I'm learning and gearing up and whatnot, and if my goal is to strive to be the best I can be, then I think I'm on my way, even if I'm 6th in the DPS meters. On the other hand, if my DPS is completely stagnant or even going down at times, then I'm failing miserably, even if I'm at the top of the meters.
Striving to be the best you can be is the point of the game, for me, as it is for you as well. Striving to be at the top of the meters, some times at the expense of good game play, even, is misplaced competitiveness. For all intents and purposes, WoW raiding is not (supposed to be) a competitive game, but a cooperative one. For instance, a good DPS player might some times "waste" some cooldowns on utility or CC casts that lower their personal DPS, while still contributing to group success. In fights that are not DPS races, for instance, hybrid DPSers would do good to throw a heal or two out there if the damage intake is being high. I know of people that do this and it makes a difference. (You know who you are and this is my way of saying thanks.
)That said, however:
This. Most emphatically this. This should be forcibly engraved with hot irons into the insides of the eye lids of every Haven raider out there!
I wish people would get off the "casual guild" high horse already, especially when most of it comes back to being attributed to me, in one way or another. There are certain things I won't stand for, such as DKP, or kicking people from the guild for not showing up for raids, or stuff like that, but that doesn't mean the raid team has to be complacent about bad playing or failing to sign up.
Like Pirate is fond of saying, "do better"!
Or, alternatively, stick to Community ranks, PUG a few raids here and there for laughs, show up for alt runs (they'll come back when Cata raid hits, I'm sure), and be chill. You'll still be welcome in /g.
(Just remember not to be a prick when you PUG raids wearing the Haven guild tag, ey...? )Cheers,
J.
Psychosis
In Cryo Sleep
The problem is that many people don't use some of the extreamly valuable resources that are available and therefor their "best" ranges from avarage down to useless. By spending a relatively small anount of time reading thing like the Elitist Jerks forums, MMO-Champion and WoWpedia I know a number of our raiders could vastly improve on there "best". Which leads to worrying cases when myself and Umb(or other people who regually perform as well as we do) are made out to have some sort of superior/unearthly talent for playing WoW, which is not only false but compleatly ridiculous. We are not "just that awesome" we merely spent some time keeping up with changes via sites like MMO-Champion and read up on our Class/Spec on Elitist Jerks. Don't like Elitist Jerks becaus it feels too much like being told how to play your character? Well neither do I, so I experimented on a target dummy/heroics for awhile then looked up feral druid on Elitist Jerks and used what I learned there as a guide to modify my play-style, it's not the Elitist Jerks "Perfect" play-style but it works well and suits me. Ignoring these sources of information is foolish, they've done the horrible, life-draining searching and number crunching so you don't have to!
On the point of the Cata dificulty increase, I think that it is a good change as it will highlight which of our raiders are unable to perform and force some of them to improve. I have already seen evidences of this due to the class changes already in place and I look forwards to seeing how people adapt to Cata. My hopes are that some the great people who I raided with back in TBC, but whom have since become complacent, once again obtian that level of skill.
Silk
Well-Known Member
I think cata will be frustrating for people who have a natural ability to play. From day one (started a mage) I've understood sheep is there for a reason.. as soon as I learnt the spell, what, 2 days after release? I used it fully and could take 2-3 mobs at a time where the game was very unforgiving for multiple pulls.
It'll be frustrating now because we have to teach others. We have to be patient. We have to calmly explain we just wiped because you hit a frozen/shackled/sheeped mob which was clearly marked with a square to boot. Or because you are a jerk and out-aggroed the tank. And then probably moaned at the tank or healer like it was their fault.
In otherwords, back like it used to be. When strat was tough. When UBRS was rock. And you know what.. I don't miss the frustration. Challenges are great, but having to mollycoddle other players, not so much. I get angry just thinking about it.. I don't think I'l have the patience to tank 5 mans. That said, I'll be looking to build a group of players who have common sense, rather than rely on PUGs. I would have never doen a PUG in old wow, and sounds like for the same reasons I won't in Cata. Still, finding three competent DPS shouldn't be hard..
Also, please realise that "knowing you are being your best" doesn't mean you are being arrogant or presumptious, or lazy. It's a pretty open ended statement but for me it means I know where all my buttons are, when to hit them, and have good reaction times. I know how to watch others and learn, and consult the internetz when need be. I don't have to come here and gloat, say I'm better than you, or any such thing, to know I'm good at wow. And if I'm completely honest I don't think being good at wow is a hard thing, coming from a pure skill based gaming background (in games where yeah, I might have gloated a little). I know we have good players, but I can judge that for myself by watching them play. Waving epeen, and worse, saying we have crap players.. I dunno what it proves honestly.
It'll be frustrating now because we have to teach others. We have to be patient. We have to calmly explain we just wiped because you hit a frozen/shackled/sheeped mob which was clearly marked with a square to boot. Or because you are a jerk and out-aggroed the tank. And then probably moaned at the tank or healer like it was their fault.
In otherwords, back like it used to be. When strat was tough. When UBRS was rock. And you know what.. I don't miss the frustration. Challenges are great, but having to mollycoddle other players, not so much. I get angry just thinking about it.. I don't think I'l have the patience to tank 5 mans. That said, I'll be looking to build a group of players who have common sense, rather than rely on PUGs. I would have never doen a PUG in old wow, and sounds like for the same reasons I won't in Cata. Still, finding three competent DPS shouldn't be hard..
Also, please realise that "knowing you are being your best" doesn't mean you are being arrogant or presumptious, or lazy. It's a pretty open ended statement but for me it means I know where all my buttons are, when to hit them, and have good reaction times. I know how to watch others and learn, and consult the internetz when need be. I don't have to come here and gloat, say I'm better than you, or any such thing, to know I'm good at wow. And if I'm completely honest I don't think being good at wow is a hard thing, coming from a pure skill based gaming background (in games where yeah, I might have gloated a little). I know we have good players, but I can judge that for myself by watching them play. Waving epeen, and worse, saying we have crap players.. I dunno what it proves honestly.
AcidK
New Member
If you cannot adapt yourself to the new ways of playing then you are not trying hard enough. At the moment it is much more difficult than before, since the new system was not truly built for all-out lvl 80 raiding but for 85 raiding. This means that what works now and what is relevant now would be completely different come lvl 85. For example, right now Holy Light for a paladin is completely redundant as it is slow and heals pathetically. Come 85 it would be the standard heal to use unless you need to pull out faster heals (Flash of Light, Holy Shock, Light of Dawn) or heal huge chunks to bring people up from under, say, 25% health (Divine Light, Light of Dawn, Word of Glory).
I don't wave the epeen banner, I never ever say I am the best healer around and I always look to improve my ability and experiment daily on different ways to handle situations. I welcome the new system as I have come to feel that instances have become a novelty and not true to the difficulty they should be and have become WAY too easy (seriously, took a group 10 minutes to complete Trial of the Crusader Heroic... it should not be that easy).
I don't wave the epeen banner, I never ever say I am the best healer around and I always look to improve my ability and experiment daily on different ways to handle situations. I welcome the new system as I have come to feel that instances have become a novelty and not true to the difficulty they should be and have become WAY too easy (seriously, took a group 10 minutes to complete Trial of the Crusader Heroic... it should not be that easy).
Silk
Well-Known Member
I agree, but then again if those people were all uber-geared then of course it's going to be easy? When you're new to an instance in gear that's entry level, that's when it's hard.
The whole point of getting better gear is to make things die faster?
I do think WOTLK heroics are too easy, since you can basically steamroll all trash and to an extent, some bosses, without ever thinking of using half your buttons (excluding Lich King heroic which is tough!).
But even in cata I'd be surprised if you didn't see it getting easier as you geared up.
Whilst you didn't wave your epeen (thank god), this is another generic comment aimed at insulting someone, but no idea who or why. Who isn't adapting? I'm sure people will try their best, some will need more help than others, which is kinda the nature of this thread.
AcidK
New Member
Neither a threat nor an insult, but a generic fact. If people are not putting the effort in to adapt to the changes Cataclysm brings and just whine about how it wouldn't be the same then they are obviously not trying hard enough. No-one should wave the 'I am better' or 'I can do better than others' banners, but at the same time people shouldn't wave the 'I was awesome now I suck and now I shall whine about it' banner, which is the point I am trying to put across.
Silk
Well-Known Member
I didn't realise anyone was saying this?
;My only gripe is my lack of patience with others, which I fully admit may be a test in cata.
p.s. if it was aimed at me I do not suck thank you very much ;p
Silk
Well-Known Member
What wha? I'm on a high horse? I'm the only one not epeening.. lol
I love how you can aim that one squarely at me when on the last page we have other guildmates of your blatantly epeening a billion times more than I ever could. Cliquey much?
Solemn
New Member
G
Gombol
Guest
I love all the english language Nazi's on this forum. ^.^ <3 @ Solemn.
Still. Trax takes the prize for being the biggest one, still.
Zhinrak
In Cryo Sleep
Silkth, these comments (at least i can safely say this for my own) are not aimed at you, there isn't need to be so defensive about this. The Haven is a huge guild with loads and loads of raiders, and to be blunt, the people who can be so light hearted about the advice in this thread is minimal.
The overall point is that Cataclysm is coming, its difficulty should be increasing fairly dramatically, and people are all excited, and rightly so. How ever from what i have seen and still do when i watch my housemates playing, is that the majority of the guild are not taking it as seriously as most of the more 'hardcore' raiders in our guild would like.
A number of the people celebrating about the increase in difficulty and use of CC being used again are often the same people i have seen standing in fires all too often and doing very substandard in their respective roles as DPS/Tank/Healer.
Have a go at me for being arrogant all you like. Yes i am shamelessly flaunting my 'e-peen' all over the place until this thread is dripping in my 'e-peen' juices. But it does not change the face that the advice given at the start of this thread is not only useful, but should be taken seriously by everyone in this guild, including myself and should not be dismissed by light hearted comments like "so if you were around in vanilla just skip to the end", otherwise the advice given may not be perceived as important as it should be.
The overall point is that Cataclysm is coming, its difficulty should be increasing fairly dramatically, and people are all excited, and rightly so. How ever from what i have seen and still do when i watch my housemates playing, is that the majority of the guild are not taking it as seriously as most of the more 'hardcore' raiders in our guild would like.
A number of the people celebrating about the increase in difficulty and use of CC being used again are often the same people i have seen standing in fires all too often and doing very substandard in their respective roles as DPS/Tank/Healer.
Have a go at me for being arrogant all you like. Yes i am shamelessly flaunting my 'e-peen' all over the place until this thread is dripping in my 'e-peen' juices. But it does not change the face that the advice given at the start of this thread is not only useful, but should be taken seriously by everyone in this guild, including myself and should not be dismissed by light hearted comments like "so if you were around in vanilla just skip to the end", otherwise the advice given may not be perceived as important as it should be.
Silk
Well-Known Member
I wasn't being light hearted, I read the whole thing. Use cc. Don't break it. Don't stand in fires. Don't over-aggro, use pots, use stat food, use interrupts. IDENTICAL to vanilla, then - and like riding a bike, not something one easily forgets. I don't think I'm wrong or arrogant in saying that, sorry if it was somehow mis-interperated.
Solemn
New Member
I love all the english language Nazi's on this forum. ^.^ <3 @ Solemn.
Still. Trax takes the prize for being the biggest one, still.
meh, I honestly didnt understand what he was trying to say.
G
Gombol
Guest
Nor did i. *hug*
Zhinrak
In Cryo Sleep
I was not trying to suggest you were being arrogant about that comment, just that to anyone reading it, it comes across very dismissive of the advice given.
It is not identical to vanilla or to TBC, but Cataclysm will be resurrecting many of the common aspects of both like the use of CC, careful monitoring of aggro. But even if people were around in vanilla or TBC, that does not make this advice any less useful. There were plenty of players during vanilla and TBC who failed at everything you just mentioned, people who could not CC properly, players who would break others CC due to carelessness and would stand in fires and over aggro.
To you it may be 'like riding a bike' but its not for everyone. Firstly a number of classes have undergone drastic changes, so for them its like someone has put the pedals on their bike backwards so they have to relearn. In addition, from what i have seen of a number of our players, some people HAVE forgotten what they learned in TBC. I have seen a number of players who back in TBC i remember being skilled, relatively high DPS with a strong awareness of their aggro and position, but now in WotLK struggle to do well and make numerous silly mistakes. It is these people who need a blunt wake up call to remind them of what they have forgotten and that the advice in this thread needs to be drilled into them once more, the sooner the better. (again, none of this is in reference to yourself silkth, especially considering i don't think i have played along side you for as long as i can recall)
Solemn
New Member
Call me a "nazi" and then give me a hug, why i oughta slap you something silly ;P
Silk
Well-Known Member
Bloody hug nazis.
Silk
Well-Known Member
ok, I see where you are coming from. Sorry, didn't mean to throw a negative light to Blokes post. I guess I take stuff like that for granted, been playing juicy mmo goodness since the days of DaoC.. where you DONT BLOODY BREAK MEZ.. OMG WIEP!!11
And also, if anyone breaks sheep in my group, I will smack them upside the head. Pain = fastest way to learn!