[DotA2] Nanor's A-Z Dota 2 Challenge

[Panda with issues...]

Fuck Huskar, seriously.

Unlike most characters, where it is best to stun then nuke them down, Huskar is more effectively combated by unintuitively nuking them and saving the stun until the end. Just as he reaches his greatest damage potential, that's when you control him with the stun and right click him down.

He's like a worse viper, in that he provides disgusting lane control, and if your mid player isn't competent (common in most pub matches) they feed a couple of kills, the lane is lost and the Huskar player, if even remotely capable just roams and ganks their way to victory. I don't think he's overpowered in any way, but just like the other classic pubstompers Drow, Sniper, Viper and Spirit Breaker he snowballs easily and requires some coordination to deal with. The fact that most of these guys are played from mid compounds this effect.

The number of games I've lost because someone fed these guys mid (mostly Drow and Sniper) and the team composition isn't correct for dealing with them is astounding and incredibly annoying. They mostly operate the same way (shadow blade = win) because trying to sort out detection as a team in pub games is hard (the prime reason riki works). It's even more annoying to see ridiculous builds like MoM Drow/Sniper actually work and start to dominate because the appropriate counterpicks often aren't taken in the ZOMG they have 5 carries WE need 5 carries EVERYONE MELEE CARRY pub style of play. Additionally, because these guys are played as carries from mid, they come online fast, and tend to be able to drag the rest of their slow farming carry heavy team to victory.

At least huskar is a solid counterprick to outworld devourer mid.

I realise that's a typo, I'm going to leave it, as counterprick is absolutely an acceptible term for anyone using Huskar.

Some basic strategies I've come across for dealing with these assholes:

1) Wards and dust. Solid advice against any shadowblade user, but difficult to actually convince anyone on your team to buy any... Helps immensely to see Spirit Breaker on his way in.

2) In the case of drow and Sniper, run AT THEM. Running away doesn't typically pay off due to the slow/bash (includes viper, though he's a bit tougher).

3) Blink Dagger/Blink heroes. QoP, PA, Slark, ironically, Huskar, Clockwerk, Storm Spirit, Spectre, Puck. Basically anyone that can close the distance fast. Unfortunately people like Storm are easily outlaned by Drow/Sniper due to better range and attack animations. Pudge hooks, if played properly.

4) Invisibility. Quintissentially, Nyx Assassin and Bounty Hunter close the distance and burst them down.

5) Blademail if necessary. Heavan's halberd to muzzle them

6) Against Spirit Breaker, my best (though not 100% effective in games by any stretch) counters are Rubick, Treant and Disrupter. Rubick's TK is instantaneous and stops the Charge in it's tracks. Treeant allows for global armour buff and damage block to harden the charge target before SB arrives to put blue balls in your team mate's mouth. Disrupter glimpse sends the asshole back where he came from. Most of the time, the effective response is to make sure the charge only hits you at a tower, then have a team mate TP support in.

Other utility spells that are great: Venge's swap is fantastic for closing the distance to a drow or sniper, and means that Drow's ulti damage bonus is lost as she's now looking scared in the middle of your team. Naga's ultimate cures all ills.

Lifestealer bomb counterganks on spirit breaker are the shit...

 

[Panda with issues...]

Also, any hex is good against spirit breaker. Lion hex -> stun -> Finger. Shadow Shaman wants to be near a tower for Hex -> Shackles. You need to have quick hands to pull it off though.

Shadow Demon disrupt to protect a teammate. Euls sceptre on yourself/SB etc.

 

[Panda with issues...]

Another potential solution to Abaddon's borrowed time in addition to Laguna Blade, Finger of Death and Culling Blade (and silence?).

Tusk's walrus punch. Deals 4x damage as a critical hit if target below 50% health, 3 x if above 50%, cannot miss. Late game, if his damage is high enough (over 100 basically) this will wipe out abaddon without triggering borrowed time. I like the other methods better though IMO, they're more reliable (and don't rely on youhaving to play a quite frankly crap hero).

 

[Ronin Storm]

Silence will only prevent Abaddon manually triggering Borrowed Time. It won't shut down the passive firing. Same for Axe's Counter Helix working through silence.

On Tusk: he's a situational initiation hero. Remember that he can transport an entire team in his snowball, and all units in the snowball are immune to everything. Good way of avoiding troubles dealing with ranged carries when on your way in.

 

[Ghostwolf67]

Good luck with it Nanor. Good way to learn the chars I lol

 

[Panda with issues...]

Silence will only prevent Abaddon manually triggering Borrowed Time. It won't shut down the passive firing. Same for Axe's Counter Helix working through silence.

On Tusk: he's a situational initiation hero. Remember that he can transport an entire team in his snowball, and all units in the snowball are immune to everything. Good way of avoiding troubles dealing with ranged carries when on your way in.

Unfortunately most of my experiences playing alongside tusk have resulted in him rolling me into the snowball resulting in me standing next to heroes I needed to not stand next to, having my channelled spells disabled by being rolled up, being rolled into and forced back into the fight when trying to flee, being rolled into spells like macropyre, being rolled into when trying to get last hits on a fleeing enemy not the target of the snowball and them escaping, having the whole team rolled up into a conveniently grouped ball for Ravage and Sanity's Eclipse, being rolled into a chronosphere, being rolled into a group of enemies including Rubick who stole the next spell tusk used (walrus punch) and then punched me as a squishy support off the screen.

So you can see how I might be a bit skeptical...

Good to know about silence and Abaddon though.

 

[Nanor]

BaneWell my bane post got lost so I'll make this quick.

He's a fun support who is king against Huskar with his pure damage. Bit squishy and I'm not a fan of his ultimate.

Bat rider next!

 

[Panda with issues...]

Bane is about the ultimate Anti Mage Counter. 2 single targets disables and enfeeble make his life a misery all through the game.

 

[Nanor]

About half a dozen concise posts summarised in about half a dozen sentences. Good work, Panda.

Had a few goes as Batrider, so here goes.

Batrider is a pretty fun hero. He's a mid hero who really shines in the mid-game with his effectiveness tapering off towards late game. Early game your sticky napalm provides decent harassment against melee heroes. Get three or four stacks on them and your auto-attacks will do a pretty reasonable amount of damage. The only hero I had particular trouble with in mid was Pudge. With a base movement speed of 290 it makes you very hookable. On top of that your ultimate cast range is the same as Pudge's ultimate so to get in and do damage you're going to need to get close, something not generally advisable against Pudge.

He comes into his own when he gets the blink dagger allowing initiations to be a surprise rather than some fat ass on a bat trundling towards you at terrible speeds. He becomes more effective with a force staff allowing a quick escape when you lasso someone. Add a BKB and you're just laughing as you tow away one of the enemy across a bed of flames forcing their team to run over the flames to help them. Trouble is he's not overly effective by himself I've found in single ganks. You're only super effective given enough sticky napalms. Kind of ruins the surprise of a gank when you're throwing buckets of cum over the trees before you jump in. You really need a high-damage team mate to help secure the kill.

Difficulty: 4/5. You've got a bit of a crap job. You're the initiator but you can't initiate from far like Warlock or take loads of damage like Axe. You have to get in and get out from the middle of the enemy team. Knowing your timing, figuring out when you have enough sticky napalms and microing the process of Sticky, BKB, Blink, Lasso, Firefly, Force Staff while coordinating your team to do damage make bat one of the more difficult heroes I've played.
Fun: 3/5. It really depends. My first few games I had a bit of a silly team. We had a Sven who popped his stun on creeps and a Lion who said "But I don't want to support" as our only support. It's a bit infuriating to blink in and tow someone only to have your team standby with their fingers up their nose as you die. Get a good, coherent team and you really hold the team together allowing for many kills.
Usefulness: 4/5. Probably one of the best initiators. To be able to bring an enemy completely out of position over a bed of fire is pretty sweet. Your ability to quickly clear lanes with your firefly stops nuisance pushes, too. You just need someone competent in it.
Overall: 4/5. I quite like bat. The only situation I'd unpick him was if I came up against a Pudge.

Next up, Bloodseeker!

 

[Panda with issues...]

Some more points about Abaddon: Had a great time as a 5 role support using him against Spirit Breaker.

Now, you may know, I despise Spirit Breaker. I feel (a lot like tusk) he adds very little to the team, often just relentlessly feeding. He's basically a troll character. As such, it was incredibly rewarding to use Abaddon against him. Whenever he charged a teammate I was able to get aphotic shield up on them to protect them, and when he charged me? Well, manually triggered my ulti. He using his ulti? Manually trigger mine. Literally a free heal.

It's a hard counter to him, and it's just so emotionally rewarding to fuck up Spirit Breaker pickers' days. I rank it very highly, alongside frustrating the stupid blue bear pickers, and blowing up MoM Drow/Sniper/Void players using Nyx Assassin.

 

[Nanor]

I've a back log of heroes to write up but I want to leave a day or two for discussion before I move onto the next.

Beastmaster

I'd never really played Beastmaster before. Perhaps maybe once in my early games. His main role is a scout. As his name suggests he's a master of the beasts and gets control of two them; a hawk and a boar. The level 2 hawk has invisibility which means you can plank it somewhere and it gives you pretty reasonable vision of an area. Handy, definitely, but it only lasts 80 seconds which really isn't long meaning you're spending a lot of the time re-sending your hawk to various places which is boring. He also gets a boar which does a bit of damage, has a passive poison which slows movement and attack speed and is very useful for distracting Sven. His Wild Axes ability has the potential to do 360 damage (providing both axes hit). Nothing to be sniffed at except it's composite damage. This means it's reduced by magic resistance and armour. Late game the damage is nowhere near 360. His ultimate is also very lacklustre. I mean it's good but it just doesn't feel very ultimate. Sure, there's a lot going on; 300 AoE Damage, 4 second stun and an AoE slow of 50% movement and attack speed but it doesn't feel like you've used your ultimate when you pop it. His passive attack speed bonus for your team is quite useful if you've a right click carry on board.

Difficulty: 3/5. Keeping on top of micro-ing your hawk (and not feeding it before it has invisibility) and pointing your boar at right-click carries has... not so much a skill but more dedication to paying attention. Deciding where to fire your axes so your target is hit by both is also a challenge. Your ultimate is pretty easy as long as you don't initiate like a cretin and your team is ready. This is just about a 3.
Fun: 2/5. Doesn't do it for me. Having to micro a moving ward isn't fun. Your ultimate isn't fun. The only saving grace is that, despite the poor damage late game, wild axes is quite fun to slice through lanes.
Usefulness: 4/5. A moving ward, a good initiation, ability to push lanes (sorta) and a good passive (depends on team build up) means he's definitely useful. Providing you've someone who enjoys playing him.
Overall: 2/5. Nah, not for me. Definitely an un-pick for me. Just too boring and I'm not a fan of micro with non-combat units.

Bloodseeker next!

 

[Panda with issues...]

Yeah, I didn't get on with Beastmaster either. I may give him another go at some point, but dull just about sums him up.

Most of the time I see the boar being used for stacking ancients. The axes as you've stated, deal composite damage which makes them shit late game. The visual design of the hero is just so crap. The only saving grace is the ultimate, which is one of the best in the game, and goes through BKB.

As you say, he definitely has utility, especially as a solo offlaner where you can use the axes to cut the trees down for vision, and position the hawk to mean it's unlikely you'll get ganked, but yes tres dull.

 

[Krijn]

First of all I'd like to say how horrid the reddit created so called "A-Z challenge" is. It completely disregards team composition or player style. Sure it's a good thing to learn different heroes, but if you're really so new that you haven't played every hero yet it's best to just stick to your repertoire depending on how the rest of your team and the enemy team picks. First of all I'd like to say how terribly wrong you are about beastmaster. He is the most versatile and balanced hero in the game. The only reason he isn't picked as much in competetive games nowadays is simply because of the mid hero pool shift, forcing him to make place for the hard support bane. His greater hawk must be one of the most broken things in the game, it is a night stalker with aghanims scepter that can move through terrain. "B-but it only lasts 90 seconds" SO WHAT the cooldown on the summon is only 40 seconds so if you're not bad enough to feed it before then you can have it up the entire game, making it impossible for the enemy to gank a lane without smoke and forcing to take a teamfight BEFORE they attempt roshan, do you not see how huge this is?
Then on to his ultimate. The only thing keeping it from being game breaking is how it gets blocked by linken's, other than that, ultimate of the year would pick again. It deals a whopping 300 magical damage stuns for a COMPLETE 4 SECONDS THROUGH BKB and does as short stun and slow on enemies in it's path. Did I mention the sub 90 second cooldown on all levels? Or the mere 45 second cooldown when you get aghs?
His axes being composite damage is another thing that makes him the amazing power house that he is. Have you ever tried playing him properly by taking him to the safe lane, rushing a soul ring and throwing those axes at the ancients every minute? Enjoy your free money and experience while you get good enough from the lane you're already in. What's that? Afraid the enemy will gank you FROM the ancients? Where the fuck did you think your hawk is supposed to go.

Then on to his aura, the thing that makes him even more viable late game, pair this fucker up with a jango and you have your entire team walking around as if they're in chemical rage. 40 iAS, that's a free hyperstone for your entire team. And pair his hog up with a good old necrobook combined with all your auras and you're pushing faster than a lycan with a desolator.

tl;dr beastmaster is awesome get good

 

[Panda with issues...]

Since the ultimate is purged by Aphotic Shield, I expect that he'll see even less play, quite frankly.

Most of the complaints weren't that he was bad in any way, more that he was boring as fuck, if you'd actually read the posts Zhar.

 

[Krijn]

But he isn't boring. The only reason someone could ever find him boring is because he isn't being used right, which would not surprise me seeing one of you rushed a sange on axe. His ultimate is on the same level of fun and game changing as a reverse polarity. His minions allow for interesting plays, body blocking and slowing with the boar while you and or your teammates go to work on the enemy health. And you really can't look at aphotic shield as a counter to anything. That's like saying a hero is shit because he gets countered by doom. Sure the shield has its uses but picking that overrated melee support hero as a counter to the master of beasts is just a little too much.

 

[Nanor]

Finally, some maturity into this thread! Hey man, I'm so sorry A-Z challenge ruffles your feathers so much. If it makes you feel any better I usually rush pick the hero so the other team are forced to pick something that helps player composition. I'm even so courteous at the minute playing Brood that I wait for the other team to have picked so I don't feed my broodlings! Ain't I a cutie?

I liked Sange on Axe. The proc let me run after the baddies and it upgraded into a HH which gave me a lovely, lovely evasion chance (allowing counter helix to proc and I'd evade the damage!). On top of that, it was pretty handy against right click carries. Though clearly Sange is shit (and I'm sure you'll eloquently explain why) but at my level and my play style, it worked well.

I agree his ultimate looks pretty damn good on paper but if you read my post (Going out on a limb here by assuming you can read) you'd see I said it doesn't feel like an ultimate. Maybe it's the crappy little particle effects or the pathetic little yell but it doesn't feel like I'm using an ultimate spell. Good ultimate. Doesn't feel like it. Good damage. Shit audio-visual.

I'm going to go out on another limb here (I'll not have many left!) and assume you know what being subjective is. I didn't have fun playing him. Neither does Panda, it seems. You do! Good for you, I'm glad he moistens your giblets! Incredibly useful, just not for me. He's like a really ugly car that's got a beast (see what I did there?) of an engine under the hood.

 

[Nanor]

Oh, and I didn't know that the ultimate stun went through BKB so I'd like to that Panda for getting that point across without dribbling on himself.

 

[Nanor]

Bloodseeker

I must admit I do quite like Bloodseeker. I'd played him in early games but didn't do well due to my inability to gank. You can take him in the jungle but I prefer him in lane. He's great if there's an enemy jungler on the team especially if they jungle to breaking point. They pop up on your minimap, you run in, rupture and slap them about a bit and away you go. Your Bloodrage is good for taking enemy casters out of a fight or giving yourself or a melee hero a good boost in damage. I wouldn't recommend casting it on an ally as it can usually put them in sticky situations silencing them for a mad 9 seconds. Blood bath is obviously great for surviving in lane and for allowing you to stay in a team fight a bit longer.

Difficulty: 2/5. Not overly hard to play. Just ensure you're roaming the map for ganks and don't be a tool with your bloodrage and you'll be tickety boo.
Fun: 3.5/5. Yeah, he's pretty good fun. Having an enemy jungle pop up on the minimap and getting a speed boost to run in and chomp them is great. Team fights and having your health suddenly regenerate is great, too. Rupture and force staff is always a good bit of banter. Plenty to keep you entertained.
Usefulness: 4/5. Having a silence for your enemy and a damage buff for yourself or other carries is definitely useful. True sight on a carry that's trying to escape on low health saves a lot of frustration and allows for ganking low health enemies who think they're OK. Rupturing enemies trying to escape is also tremendously useful. Effectively this guy is the anti-escape.
Overall 3.5/5. Yeah, I enjoyed him. Had a good game with him and I'd definitely pick this guy again if I was feeling killy.

 

[Panda with issues...]

But he isn't boring. The only reason someone could ever find him boring is because he isn't being used right, which would not surprise me seeing one of you rushed a sange on axe. His ultimate is on the same level of fun and game changing as a reverse polarity. His minions allow for interesting plays, body blocking and slowing with the boar while you and or your teammates go to work on the enemy health. And you really can't look at aphotic shield as a counter to anything. That's like saying a hero is shit because he gets countered by doom. Sure the shield has its uses but picking that overrated melee support hero as a counter to the master of beasts is just a little too much.

Sure, Abaddon is truly terrible and overrated, that's why he's early pick/ban material in starladder right now. There's no need to pick him to counter beastmaster because he's being picked because he's generally really useful.

The visual design of the hero is boring as hell.