Saddam Hussein Sentenced To Death

[Gopha]

I know what you mean Gibson, but this man has ended/ruined So many lives as he reigned. It would be terrible if his evil doings were not punished. I take back the comment I said earlier, death by hanging indoors, no publicity, that will be fair .

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

I know what you mean Gibson, but this man has ended/ruined So many lives as he reigned. It would be terrible if his evil doings were not punished. I take back the comment I said earlier, death by hanging indoors, no publicity, that will be fair .

Does he deserve that really? I think he should be made an example of, no compensation for any of these nutters who would stand up for his rights - you can stick your human rights right up your backside. He gave them up when he stole 148 civilians' rights to live.

 

[Haven]

No compassion ? If everyone held and believed such extremist views I am sure the world would be a very very empty place.

May you reap what you sow.

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

Luckily, I have no intention of sowing the seeds of an evil mass-murdering dictatorship. People, I think some common sense has to be called into action here. We arent talking about someone stealing cookies out the jar and getting let off with it, this is a man ( I use the term man very loosely here) who ordered the execution and torture of countless human beings. How can you physically sit there and type out that we have to show him mercy of any degree (I'm showing mercy - I'm not asking for him to be stoned to death by the members of his victims families now, am I?).

 

[Haven]

This isn't about the man and his crimes. This is about how you respond to the situation. We have no control over what he did, all we control is our own response, that is what is being expressed here.

 

[Gibsonfire]

Exactly.

I understand that he should not be let free to walk the streets however life imprisonment (actual full life) can achieve this without the need of death.

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

Except that then we would be paying to keep him alive, there is always the chance (however remote) that he will be freed/liberated by sympathisers either by negotiation or by force (however, to attempt to neutralise this threat you would need a large security squad and penetentiary - more taxpayer's £££s), you'll still have a sizeable number of Shi'ites and Kurds baying for his blood, he can still, in a way, issue orders to his followers and, above all, he is still in existence. Aside from all of that, I do believe he deserves it, goddamn he deserves it.

 

[DocBot]

Well, I know for a fact that my government allowed CIA to pick up 2 men in Sweden and have them transported to Egypt, where they were tortured. Even if it's not done in our countries 'cause of all those pesky laws, we can still be responsible for it.

 

[Gibsonfire]

Goddamn deserves it? I'm not sure if God would damn life to death, any life.

It seems the EU and Human rights organisations are opposing the death sentance Saddam was given. It seems people are also speculating the intresting timing of the verdict:

Saddam verdict = Very close to Mid-term elections in U.S.A.

 

[Gopha]

In earlier reports Tony Blair claims that its entirely up to the Baghdad courts about how he dies, I think that Tony blair does not believe in capital punishment. Im pretty sure God does not want Saddam to die. Also, raising another another political/ethical debate (please move in unwanted) Bush says jesus is on his side, he *believes* in God yet, He has not abolished Capital punishment. This is not exactly what you call christian.

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

Goddamn deserves it? I'm not sure if God would damn life to death, any life.

A figure of speech, don't try and capitalise on this kind of thing if you can help it.

Nonetheless, God indeed would damn life to death, as demonstrated by this Bible story I remembered.

"As soon as Ahab saw Elijah, Ahab said unto Elijah, "Art thou he that troubleth Israel?" Elijah took no offence and said, "I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord, and thou hast followed Ballim."

Elijah challenged Israel to decide, who they would follow, the Lord or Baal. They must not try to follow both, but instead choose the God they would follow. In response to the challenge, a contest was arrange between Elijah and the priests of Baal. The priests of Baal were to take a bull and prepare it for sacrifice to Baal. The test involved the sacrifice being consumed by fire. If Baal accepted their sacrifice the priests won and Israel would follow Baal. Additionally, if the priests sacrifice was not accepted, Elijah would be given the chance to make sacrifice to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Lord would remember his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. If fire consumed Elijahs offering Israel would follow the Lord of Host. The priests of Baal were in territory, but had no choice but to perform before the people. Elijah must have known they could not call down fire to consume the sacrifice. It was not in their power.

The contest lasted all day with the four hundred fifty priests of Baal chanting, "O Baal, hear us." But there was no voice, nor any that answered. So the priest leaped upon the alter, cutting themselves till the blood gushed out, and still no answer. Elijah encouraged the priests telling them to cry louder. Mocking the priests of Baal he told them perhaps Baal is talking, sleeping, or on a far away adventure. Utter defeated the priest give up and now the glory of God can be manifest in Elijah. The priest of Baal sacrifice people, but never was a sacrifice consumed by fire. No fire was invoked showing Satan does not support his own. The priests of Baal could not hope that fire would consume their sacrifice. Their acting before the people would not convince Israel that Baal had any real power.

Elijah build an alter of twelve stones. Each stone represented one of the tribes of Israel. The bull was prepared for sacrifice and three times four barrels of water are poured over the alter, wood, and bull. A large trench was dug around the alter and filled with water. Evening was approaching and the great prophet Elijah lifted his hands to heavan a cried out, "Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again." At that moment, a fire descended from heavan and consumed the burnt offering, the wood, and stones; and licked up all the water in the trench. The powers of heavan had descended and showed House of Israel the Lord's hand was stronger than the priest of Baalim. The fall down in worship. Now they knew the Lord was God.

Elijah gathered all the priest of Baal near the brook of Kishon and slew them. Elijah told Ahab, "Get thee up, eat and drink; fore there is a sound of abundance of rain." There was no rain. Ahab did as the prophet instructed and went and ate. Elijah proceed to journey to mount carmel. Here Elijah cast himself down and put his head between his knees. Elijah was breaking the seal which had prevented the earth from receiving rain. Sevens times he instructed his servant to go to the sea and look. His servant was Elisha. On the seventh time a small cloud appeared. The skys darken and the wind increased. The smell of rain, the sound of thunder, and the water pour down drenching Elijah and his servant. The hand of the Lord was on Elijah."

Needless to say, one of my least favourite Bible stories. I think it contradicts virtually everything that I was ever taught to believe in about Christianity. However, it proves my point and Ill let it rest there.

Incidentally, I'm sorry for having to post this lengthy piece of text. It's the only way I could isolate the story and yet give the bold important part meaning and context. If, indeed, you want any futher proof of God's willingness to end human life, what about the battle for the Walls of Jericho? Samson crushing everyone under the temple using God's power?

And as far as the date 'coincidence' goes, you could choose any date on the calendar for his execution and find some incriminating link somewhere.

 

[waterproofbob]

Bush says jesus is on his side, he *believes* in God yet, He has not abolished Capital punishment. This is not exactly what you call Christian.

No it isn't however misinterpretation of the Bible is frustratingly common place, these are very similar to the old views that were riff thought the British Empire (and inherent within most powers through out history), that it is the will of God what they are doing. I find this massively frustrating as Bush's isn't a Christian view point in the slightest, couldn't be further from it in fact. This debate does seem to be lose lose whatever happens however. If he's given a life sentence then he's still alive (and all the problems inherent to this), if he is killed it could cause a massive uprise from his supporters, triggering more violence and more innocent lose of life.


Also Tetsuo
Please don't tell me your going to base a rejection of a religion on something in the 12th book of the old testament. As Christianity is based upon primarily the teachings of Christ, all new testament.
If you can find me a passage in the gospels that supports what your saying then I'll let it rest, but please don't claim that your use of the old testament proves your point.

 

[Gibsonfire]

Also Tetsuo
Please don't tell me your going to base a rejection of a religion on something in the 12th book of the old testament. As Christianity is based upon primarily the teachings of Christ, all new testament.
If you can find me a passage in the gospels that supports what your saying then I'll let it rest, but please don't claim that your use of the old testament proves your point.

Ditto

Plus how do you expect someone will not capitalise on your use of 'goddamn' when the debate has already started talking about religon and god.

 

[Haven]

We're straying close to a thread split here - religous debate is fine as long as it is open and inclusive but lets not wander too far from the original thread subject.

 

[Tetsuo_Shima]

Needless to say, one of my least favourite Bible stories. I think it contradicts virtually everything that I was ever taught to believe in about Christianity. However, it proves my point and Ill let it rest there.

See, contradicts, contradicts. I never said anything about taking anything out of that quote, merely that it proves my point, which is that god would indeed damn someone to death.

Now, whether or not it is a Christian belief, it still contradicts my own teachings and I would regard that quite relevant considering the old and new testaments both form part of the same whole. Apart from that, the old testament is used in the teaching of Christianity anyway, so I believe it holds a lot more credit than you are affording it. I'm not entirely sure where you pulled 'rejection of religion' from, what exactly are you suggesting by that phrase?

Gibsonfire - because it was more of a personal question rather than a question related to the argument at hand. I TOLD you, I used goddamn as a figure of speech, stop trying to question me over my choice of words because you can't find anything better to disagree over.

 

[Gibsonfire]

stop trying to question me over my choice of words because you can't find anything better to disagree over.

Is there any need in saying that?

 

[elDiablo]

Just quickly getting the topic back on track, I saw the BBC were reporting that Saddam's trial was resumed, 2 days after he was sentenced to death. Now, I know the families/friends/everyone wants to see him brought to justice (whether or not death is justice, I'm not going to start to say), but surely putting him back on trial is just flocking the dead horse... I mean, is there any more you can do to this person, and will a second (third, fourth, etc) death sentence really mean that much more to the people he has wronged?

 

[DocBot]

It's about defining responsibility, methinks.

Not punishment/revenge.

 

[Taffy]

Would you like to do that personally? I mean really would you have the nerve to do something like that to someone, even him?

Just a question.............

Yes. It would be difficult, undoubtedly, but if I had to, I would.

 

[decky101]

I believe that sentencing Saddam to death is sinking to his own life. I mean, sure, he took so many lives but we are merely doing the same thing to him. Lock him up somewhere distant and remote and let him rot. It's widely known that people who have commited various crimes have come to realise the error of their ways and who knows? Saddam could come to realise his. We think that because he has commited such brutal notorious crimes that he deserves his cumupins but would it not be more humane to punish him longterm for his cruelty. In the words of God he once said any sin can be forgiven if you want it to be. This applies to everyone there was and there ever will be no matter what unjust persecution they have commited

You have heard the bible story where Jesus is being crucified with the two criminals. One rebukes him. The other criminal says "We are punished justly for our crimes but this man (Jesus) has done nothing. Then Jesus says"I tell you, you will be with me today in paradise" Anyone can receive this forgiveness and these are my beliefs professed solemnly. Saddam is an absolute criminal and should be punished but is it not punishment enough for him to think of his actions and to realise that they are infact irreversible and he, quite possibly, may spend eternity in hell? You tell me you do not fear spending eternity, a period of time incomprehensible to the human mind and I will fear for you, for that is not a place you want to go. A road you don't want to go down.