Suggestion

[Pwnstar]

Everyone looking to raid should probably get recount. Lets you see how you fair up againt other raiders and has in depth analysis of everyones DPS.
If you find you arent doing as well as an equivalent raider, e.g. people of the same class and similar gear check out recount and see what the differences are. It's this self motivation to improve and find out how to do so that seperates the good raiders from those happy to be carried along.
Also covers, Healing meters, damage taken and interrupts. So everyones a winner, apart from the guy who's job it is to scrutinise and observe everyones performance

 

[Zooggy]

Hoy,

Question: does it also cover threat? I forget, and I can't log on from here to go check...

Also, regarding healing meters, I find them oddly misleading, especially when I'm in my Discipline build, as, well, I don't know, maybe about 30% of my "healing" comes from PWS, Aegis and other stuff, and is actually absorbed damage, and thus, not listed.

On the other hand, I find that, in my Holy build, I am doing mostly raid healing, and except for raid-damage-intensive encounters, I simply don't cast as many heals as when I am tank healing, and as such, my meters tend to be lower, some times as much as 50% lower than the meters of the tank healers.

I find that these facts don't disturb me, and I usually find that, once I know an encounter well, lack of healing is usually not a problem...

Then again, I did go and get Recount, if for no other reason than to look at my own Healing vs Overhealing meter, which I find to be an invaluable source of information on my own mana efficiency.

In any case, yes, do get Recount and do learn to operate it and read it. You'll almost certainly learn something about your own playstyle, and that's never a bad thing.

Cheers,
J.

 

[Pwnstar]

No last i checked it doenst cover threat, if it does its some crazy deeply hidden option. But tbh thats why we have Omen, which is a must anyway for all raiders. especially those with terrible threat reduction YOUN.

 

[Huung]

I must admit healing meters are misleading, the main thing healers need to be looking at is their actual healing compared to overhealing.

 

[Zhinrak]

I must admit healing meters are misleading, the main thing healers need to be looking at is their actual healing compared to overhealing.

Just to add my 2 cents about healing meters. Being top of them means FUCK ALL.

DPS and damage is different, because in most cases everyone should be doing as much damage as possible for the same amount of time as everyone else, so seeing who is on top shows something.

Healing meters alter because healers will have different heal targets, different priorities, some healers in a fight may only be using the occasional heal while others will be spamming constantly depending on said roles. Additionally each class has a different healing style which will contribute in many ways. E.G. disc priests shield the fuck out of people, which doesnt count as healing. Being top of the healing meters usually doesn't mean you were doing the best.

As huung said though for healers personal use they are great, you can see how much effective healing you were doing and how much over healing you've done, allowing you to work at being more efficient.

Just felt this needed saying because i see a number of healers on the WoW forums bragging that they are on top of the healing meters and thinking it makes them the best

 

[Marqo]

Yep. Healing meters are useful, but don't tell the whole story. There are fights where I'm quite low on the meters, usually because I start meleeing the boss when it's safe to do so and there is low healing needed.

 

[thatbloke]

Also, DPS meters don't tell the whole story. While they are a useful tool, they should not be the ONLY measure of how good a player is.

 

[lawn]

I agree - the Meter fails to tell you when people don't switch targets to kill the adds, interrupt, purge, dispell, combat res, tricks of the trade, mis-direct, move out of an aoe etc...

Let's hope people still remember to do these other things aswell and not worry to much about chasing meters at the expense of the raid.

 

[thatbloke]

I agree - the Meter fails to tell you when people don't switch targets to kill the adds, interrupt, purge, dispell, combat res, tricks of the trade, mis-direct, move out of an aoe etc...

Let's hope people still remember to do these other things aswell and not worry to much about chasing meters at the expense of the raid.

Indeed - I'd rather be in mid-table mediocrity but survive the fight and do all the right things during the fight than become a mana sponge for the healers or keep requiring a combat res of some description

Although I will agree that there is a minimum level of DPS that people should be able to reach, regardless of the encounter

 

[SgtFury]

actually the meter does tell you who is killing adds..... you can select a person and see where their damage actually was .
Recount also measures, interrupts, purges, dispells, deaths etc.

So it does tell all. It is possible with abilities like soul shatter/fade/cower/vanish/iceblock etc to keep putting out the dps until omen tells you it's almost too much and then drop the threat and start again.....

2 cents.

 

[Razaak]

True, but most people don't tend to look that far Fury... they probably don't go beyond the "total damage done" and "DPS" charts.

Recount can be a useful tool when used properly, but it can also be a liability.

 

[Thunder]

It's an excellent tool when used to analyze your healing/dps so that you can improve.

 

[Zooggy]

Hey,

It's an excellent tool when used to analyze your healing/dps so that you can improve.

Exactly. This. Use Recount not to compare yourself with others, but rather to compare yourself with where you wish you were. (Like Sabot is fond of saying, "Do Better"(TM). )

In other words, focus the lines in the chart that are about you: your number of interrupts, your number of dispels, your HOT/DOT uptime. (My HOT uptime sucks, for instance, but again, PWS on global cooldown means less casts of Renew... )

Cheers,
J.

 

[Huung]

Except for the "damage done" section on a boss fight, where the total damage done really is what's important, and SHOULD be compared against others to measure one's worth.

 

[Pwnstar]

Except for the "damage done" section on a boss fight, where the total damage done really is what's important, and SHOULD be compared against others to measure one's worth.

Sabot agrees.

 

[satanaphyte]

Except for the "damage done" section on a boss fight, where the total damage done really is what's important, and SHOULD be compared against others to measure one's worth.

True but total damage isnt that accurate as not all bosses are sustained constant dps, e.g with bosses that have adds ranged and casters can just switch target us melee types must run there and then continue dps. It counts as a major disadvantage to us close combat peeps or does it. Been out of the game for a little but when ever i was on adds or had to CC dps would suck only time i saw even dps races was on patchy...correct me if im wrong , no seriously its been a a month or 2 since i last played and alot has changed class-wise aswell, So i could very well be a little off i think .

 

[Huung]

True but total damage isnt that accurate as not all bosses are sustained constant dps, e.g with bosses that have adds ranged and casters can just switch target us melee types must run there and then continue dps. It counts as a major disadvantage to us close combat peeps or does it. Been out of the game for a little but when ever i was on adds or had to CC dps would suck only time i saw even dps races was on patchy...correct me if im wrong , no seriously its been a a month or 2 since i last played and alot has changed class-wise aswell, So i could very well be a little off i think .

It's still true to an extent, but you have to factor things like that in to your total DPS. If all the melee are required to do it, compare yourself just to the melee. It's still first and foremost a comparison to others on boss fights; it doesn't matter if you're bettering your own personal performance if it's still half that of other people. That, and you use things like sprint/nitro boosts/spirit walk to move around faster as a melee DPS when there's lots of movement to be done, every little helps.

 

[Gidean]

This convo is rollin on wonderfully well but for a small point i think in perticular a fair amount of key people are deluding themselfs with, as follows:

1. we need 25 people to do the top raids and only just cover that usually with haven'ers.
2. we are generaly unselective about who the last members of the raid will be and will mostly put it down to who needs or deserves to go, not "competency"

My point heres is this, "WE ARE A SOCIAL GUILD"! and yet even tho everyone agrees with this statment they also seem to conveniently ignore that fact when people dont perform as well as others would like, or in terms of recounting everyone, who u put someone up against.

I like acheivments, i love progression, and i love the guild but lets not forget the fact that the more people push with laughable quotations like "be better" the more people who just like enjoying "the game" and the people in it will stop raiding thru stress and angst for the people pushing them.

This is not jus about recount its about simple respect for tho's that dont wish to be in a raiding guild.....oh wait...shit....this isnt a raiding guild is it!

I hope people can b open inded enough to see my point.
Rant over.

 

[Dr Drae]

the more people who just like enjoying "the game" and the people in it

I see

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~zuses1/i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

What you did there.

 

[Haven]

My point heres is this, "WE ARE A SOCIAL GUILD"! and yet even tho everyone agrees with this statment they also seem to conveniently ignore that fact when people dont perform as well as others would like, or in terms of recounting everyone, who u put someone up against.

A counter point could be that regardless of what we are as a guild, if you join a raid you are raiding and hence need to adhere to raiding standards. Nobody is forcing folks to join the raids but if you do then from that point on there are 24 other people (assuming 25 man) relying on you being up to the task.

If you don't want that then don't accept the invite. I don't really see any incompatibility between this approach and being a social guild.

As for recount, its very situational and spamming it in raid chat does annoy people (myself included). Its a useful tool though and should not be ignored but neither should it be used as the sole method of analysis.

As an aside if you want to try again with 25 man raiding then I'm sure we can pull a handful of folks with suitable attitudes and gear from TheRisen to fill those last spots. Not sure how you feel about this, but putting it forward regardless.