Huung
Well-Known Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Wasn't that why they moved to a .se domain? As in, to avoid being seized?
Wasn't that why they moved to a .se domain? As in, to avoid being seized?
The threat to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
- Thread starter Xylak
- Start date
bacon
Well-Known Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Someone has also compressed their entire site down to a 90mb archive to allow anyone to re-host it.
http://mashable.com/2012/02/10/pirate-bay-usb/
Someone has also compressed their entire site down to a 90mb archive to allow anyone to re-host it.
http://mashable.com/2012/02/10/pirate-bay-usb/
Ki!ler-Mk1
Active Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Its not very fair that those with more money have more power to get things done. If the music industry actually made their produce affordable there would not be a problem, at least, i would actually be able to afford to buy music i hear on the radio.
Its not very fair that those with more money have more power to get things done. If the music industry actually made their produce affordable there would not be a problem, at least, i would actually be able to afford to buy music i hear on the radio.
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
I don't think it's entirely about affordability though (but it does play a part) - the main part of the problem is availability. Or to be more specific, a lack of availability. The Internet is this big opportunity for music/movie/whatever companies to reach out to quite literally everyone in the world, yet they cannot see this and still insist on attempting to artificially restrict the availability of their products in the belief that doing so will make them more money.
One day, they might realise that this is their actual problem. Until then, they are going to continue to claim that every single pirated copy of their music/movies is a "lost sale" when it is actually so far from the truth that it's laughable.
I don't think it's entirely about affordability though (but it does play a part) - the main part of the problem is availability. Or to be more specific, a lack of availability. The Internet is this big opportunity for music/movie/whatever companies to reach out to quite literally everyone in the world, yet they cannot see this and still insist on attempting to artificially restrict the availability of their products in the belief that doing so will make them more money.
One day, they might realise that this is their actual problem. Until then, they are going to continue to claim that every single pirated copy of their music/movies is a "lost sale" when it is actually so far from the truth that it's laughable.
Xylak
New Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Pirate Bay did close for a short time when the site owners were arrested (and subsequently prosecuted) for aiding and promoting copyright infringement.
The site is still up and running. The domain changed from .org to .se.
I can't remember if it was PB or another torrent site that made it's entire catalogue of magnet links available as a single download - magnet links being much smaller than torrents meant it was a relatively small file. (edit: oops, wrote this before I saw Bacon's post)
Pirate Bay did close for a short time when the site owners were arrested (and subsequently prosecuted) for aiding and promoting copyright infringement.
The site is still up and running. The domain changed from .org to .se.
I can't remember if it was PB or another torrent site that made it's entire catalogue of magnet links available as a single download - magnet links being much smaller than torrents meant it was a relatively small file. (edit: oops, wrote this before I saw Bacon's post)
Xylak
New Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
An interesting view on piracy from author Neil Gaiman
It has also been noted (can't be bothered to go Googling it) that many downloaders also purchase a lot of music/films.
The arguments from the entertainment industry big players is absolutely no different than the ones they used when cassettes, and later home video, hit the mainstream.
I can understand them wanting to protect their investments but what they don't realise, or don't want to accept, is that a large portion of the music & films being downloaded is not always "lost revenue" as many people would not have bought that content anyway.
Content needs to be more available for less money. Provide a better service and, while you won't necessarily eradicate the black market, you will reduce it's effect.
An interesting view on piracy from author Neil Gaiman
It has also been noted (can't be bothered to go Googling it) that many downloaders also purchase a lot of music/films.
The arguments from the entertainment industry big players is absolutely no different than the ones they used when cassettes, and later home video, hit the mainstream.
I can understand them wanting to protect their investments but what they don't realise, or don't want to accept, is that a large portion of the music & films being downloaded is not always "lost revenue" as many people would not have bought that content anyway.
Content needs to be more available for less money. Provide a better service and, while you won't necessarily eradicate the black market, you will reduce it's effect.
Ki!ler-Mk1
Active Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Slightly off topic, and i know my local cinema is completely able to to make their own decisions, but when underworld awakening (18) was showing, they gave it 2 weeks in 3D and then stopped showing it, as a result i was unable to go see it, so i am going to pirate it when it becomes available, but i would have watched it at the cinema, and then waited for it to come to sky movies.
(Yeah so i could have not mentioned downloading it, but it keeps the rest topical).
I am really disillusioned with my local cinema because of this, i feel somehow betrayed.
EDIT:
I cant watch 3D.
Slightly off topic, and i know my local cinema is completely able to to make their own decisions, but when underworld awakening (18) was showing, they gave it 2 weeks in 3D and then stopped showing it, as a result i was unable to go see it, so i am going to pirate it when it becomes available, but i would have watched it at the cinema, and then waited for it to come to sky movies.
(Yeah so i could have not mentioned downloading it, but it keeps the rest topical).
I am really disillusioned with my local cinema because of this, i feel somehow betrayed.
EDIT:
I cant watch 3D.
Xylak
New Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Such is the nature of cinemas. You could complain to them and ask why they didn't run for longer if demand was high. Or request that future 3D presentations get a longer run.
I should also point out that pirating a copy is not condoned. You should buy an official DVD released by the studio.
Such is the nature of cinemas. You could complain to them and ask why they didn't run for longer if demand was high. Or request that future 3D presentations get a longer run.
I should also point out that pirating a copy is not condoned. You should buy an official DVD released by the studio.
Silk
Well-Known Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
I had a cineworld sub which I cancelled due to them making some big films 3D only. I can't watch it either, gives me a headache.
I have no qualms about admitting I download films. If they're good, I add them to my blu-ray collection once they eventually come out. If they're bad, would never have bought them anyway. I could rent, but that would involve going out, going to blockbuster, hoping the film is there (probably not even out yet) and trudging back home, then trudging back to return it the next day - which boils down to availability as argued by bloke.
Would I pay a monthly fee for unlimited HD DRM-free downloadable or "streaming" digital films and television, anime, that sort of stuff, available in the UK at the same time as the USA? Yes! Up to £40 a month for "full" content, or pay per item like steam. But it doesn't exist and I doubt it ever will.
Imagine a steam for film/TV, with a library you could DL and/or stream anytime after purchase. It would be epic. People would use it. It would make money. Places are sort of starting to give digital options but they're too limited and/or expensive for what they are.
I had a cineworld sub which I cancelled due to them making some big films 3D only. I can't watch it either, gives me a headache.
I have no qualms about admitting I download films. If they're good, I add them to my blu-ray collection once they eventually come out. If they're bad, would never have bought them anyway. I could rent, but that would involve going out, going to blockbuster, hoping the film is there (probably not even out yet) and trudging back home, then trudging back to return it the next day - which boils down to availability as argued by bloke.
Would I pay a monthly fee for unlimited HD DRM-free downloadable or "streaming" digital films and television, anime, that sort of stuff, available in the UK at the same time as the USA? Yes! Up to £40 a month for "full" content, or pay per item like steam. But it doesn't exist and I doubt it ever will.
Imagine a steam for film/TV, with a library you could DL and/or stream anytime after purchase. It would be epic. People would use it. It would make money. Places are sort of starting to give digital options but they're too limited and/or expensive for what they are.
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
If media companies got their way, everyone in the WORLD would have a unique "account" of some sort. They would then be required to login on any device which can play any sort of media with said account, and then on any attempt to actually play/watch something, the account would be checked to see if the account owner actually has a licence to view/listen to said media.
Only "approved" playback devices would be allowed, and any attempt to circumvent these methods would result in fines equivalent to the cost of making the media item in question in the first place.
Funny thing is, I can actually see this happening, in some sort of dystopian future.
If media companies got their way, everyone in the WORLD would have a unique "account" of some sort. They would then be required to login on any device which can play any sort of media with said account, and then on any attempt to actually play/watch something, the account would be checked to see if the account owner actually has a licence to view/listen to said media.
Only "approved" playback devices would be allowed, and any attempt to circumvent these methods would result in fines equivalent to the cost of making the media item in question in the first place.
Funny thing is, I can actually see this happening, in some sort of dystopian future.
Panda with issues...
Well-Known Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Let's ignore these fanciful comments about 'people who download stuff would never pay for it anyway' - Legally, it's still theft, or copyright infringement, or whatever. These comments get us nowhere.
What do people regard as the biggest problems here?
In my opinion:
1) Fair pricing.
What is media worth to you? I, personally, generally equate price to how much something is worth to me in terms of entertainment.
For example:
Going to the cinema currently costs me between £7-8. I don't go to see 3d films because they're terrible. Typical films I see probably average out at around 2 hours of watch, rounding us out at about £3.5 to 4/hour entertainment fee. Depending on where you go, that's not significantly more than 2-3 pints of beer at a pub (and significantly better for your health) for probably the same length of time for entertainment.
Books: The typical book I read now probably costs £7-16 (depending on hardback or softback). Hours of enjoyment? Maybe 10-20, dependent on length. That's probably somewhere less than £1/hr entertainment. That's rocking value.
Comics: Average price of a trade paperback, or whatever the standard collection is is about £12. Probably takes me about an hour to read. YEEESH! That's a cost of £12/hr for my entertainment.
Computer game: Dependent on the game, somewhere between 10 and 30 hours of gaming on average? Some duds end up with barely an hour's play (often bought for <£5 on steam) others like l4d and l4d2 clock in at probably about 200 hours entertainment between them. Average price for a new game, £30? Probably getting somewhere in the region of £1-3/hr entertainment costs.
DVD: Film price points very variable. Prices seem to range between £3-15 for a new dvd, depending if it is a new release or not. Assuming you only watch a £15 DVD once, you're paying £7.50 an hour for a 2 hour film. Watch it twice, and you're in line with cinema pricing. TV series tend to be around £25-30 for maybe 15-20 hours of play. Maybe somewhere around £1.50 an hour.
CDs: Somewhere between £5-12 for a new CD. Listening to it once (assuming it is 1/2 hr long, and £12, which is absolutely the WORST case scenario) then that clocks in at £24/hour. That isn't a realistic scenario though, as most music I buy gets listened to extensively. If I listened to that CD 10 times, I'd be paying £2.40 an hour, which is akin to a pint of beer.
Models: A new model kit could well cost me up to £30. Ouch. Do I likely get at least 15 hours worth of time spent messing with it? You bet. £2/hr.
Concert tickets: I'm seeing Black Stone Cherry in march. Ticket cost me £20 and that's a cheep one. They'll probably play for 2 hours. £10/hr. - Squid only knows how much fucking football tickets cost these days. Much more I suspect.
The point I'm making here is that I don't actually think ANY of this stuff is really overpriced. Assuming you know your own taste well enough to A) Not buy a dud (of anything) and potentially B) Buy something which is useful to you multiple times, I think most pricing is fair, even on the upper end of prices.
But wait, I hear you say. Digital distribution should drive prices down, because they don't have to produce physical media, or ship stuff. Well, most of the time, producing the physical copy of something is essentially negligible when compared to the cost of generating the media itself. The big problem in this case would seem to be the middle men, selling this crap at retail, distribution networks etc.
Which neatly brings me to:
2) Dinosaur business models. This is where I feel the argument against the media conglomerates actually has a bit of a point.
These companies are still stuck in an age and business model where the internet essentially doesn't exist. They have their avenues of distribution, and courier companies, and retail branches, and all this stuff, which for most THNers I would suspect, probably isn't necessary. Why would you walk into a store to buy something, when you could download it to your pc at the same cost (or cheaper), or have it delivered to your house (probably also cheaper)? These retail stores are likely going to go the way of the dodo in the next 30-40 years. I'm suspecting a death of the high street as our generation gets older, and (assuming the recession doesn't turn us into a 'lost generation') becomes the primary earners and spenders. Our children (not that we should have them, but that's a VERY different debate) could grow up almost never having to go into a shop of any sort. Groceries ordered and delivered via the internet, clothes delivered, tried on, then returned/kept dependent on fit, media streamed straight to our TVs. All of these things are possible NOW. Imagine what will happen over the next decades as 3d printing technology improves and becomes more affordable.
These companies are going to have to find a way to monetise their media in a digital world where people want to buy it, and I am a firm believer in the best way to achieve that being finding a price people are willing to pay for, and providing a convenient service.
Things like netflix seem to be on the rise (I can't personally see why, as when I was in Canada, they guys I was staying with had it, and we could never find anything we wanted to watch on it, but I suspect that says more about who I am as a person, than the service itself). Netflix seems to be convenient though, and along with torrenting, and stuff like lovefilm has killed the video rental business dead - A deserved casualty in the fight against dinosaur business models.
This brings me towards my next point:
C) Globalisation.
We live in a globalised world which is ever more connected by things such as social media.
The media industry needs to work out how to turn this into a strength, not just retrench and bury their heads in the sand. If people can use skype to talk to people across the other side of the world for free, instantaneously, why are people in the UK still waiting months longer than people in the US for films to be released? Is there any wonder people are pirating TV when it is released in the US rather than waiting 2 YEARS or something ludicrous for it to be released here? It takes even longer for this stuff to reach other countries. People WANT to watch this stuff, they WANT that product, and they want it NOW, not 2 years in the future for no reason at all. We can put a man on the moon, but we can't have global film and game release dates? We can send an email instantaneously, but the latest series of Futurama is what, travelling the slowest boat in the world? Are the bytes being carried by migrating songbirds? It is ridiculous.
Up until now the media industry's main move on this issue has been to retrench into DRM - Things like DVD region locks, quite possibly the foulest piece of DRM conceived in the last 20 years. This will NEVER work, for reasons that really don't need articulating to people on this site, to quote Jeff Goldblum 'Life will find a way'. I think the cure here, eventually will come in the form of advertising.
Now, I LOATHE advertising, as I personally don't find 99% of it relevant to me in any way, but, as before, I'm not the target audience. But, as we've discussed, with the advent of social media, and bigger web footprints for individuals, we may be on the way towards a glorious future of targeted advertisement, where adverts become relevant to you. With the advent of global megabrands, and their shift towards becoming more like umbrella corporations, selling their products in packages targeted to be attractive to local audiences, advertising could be a major source of revenue.
Stream your episode of Chuck/Futurama/Dr Who/Downton Abby/Film whatever, from CBS or whoever has produced it, get your locally targeted ad break which works wherever you are in the world.
Let's ignore these fanciful comments about 'people who download stuff would never pay for it anyway' - Legally, it's still theft, or copyright infringement, or whatever. These comments get us nowhere.
What do people regard as the biggest problems here?
In my opinion:
1) Fair pricing.
What is media worth to you? I, personally, generally equate price to how much something is worth to me in terms of entertainment.
For example:
Going to the cinema currently costs me between £7-8. I don't go to see 3d films because they're terrible. Typical films I see probably average out at around 2 hours of watch, rounding us out at about £3.5 to 4/hour entertainment fee. Depending on where you go, that's not significantly more than 2-3 pints of beer at a pub (and significantly better for your health) for probably the same length of time for entertainment.
Books: The typical book I read now probably costs £7-16 (depending on hardback or softback). Hours of enjoyment? Maybe 10-20, dependent on length. That's probably somewhere less than £1/hr entertainment. That's rocking value.
Comics: Average price of a trade paperback, or whatever the standard collection is is about £12. Probably takes me about an hour to read. YEEESH! That's a cost of £12/hr for my entertainment.
Computer game: Dependent on the game, somewhere between 10 and 30 hours of gaming on average? Some duds end up with barely an hour's play (often bought for <£5 on steam) others like l4d and l4d2 clock in at probably about 200 hours entertainment between them. Average price for a new game, £30? Probably getting somewhere in the region of £1-3/hr entertainment costs.
DVD: Film price points very variable. Prices seem to range between £3-15 for a new dvd, depending if it is a new release or not. Assuming you only watch a £15 DVD once, you're paying £7.50 an hour for a 2 hour film. Watch it twice, and you're in line with cinema pricing. TV series tend to be around £25-30 for maybe 15-20 hours of play. Maybe somewhere around £1.50 an hour.
CDs: Somewhere between £5-12 for a new CD. Listening to it once (assuming it is 1/2 hr long, and £12, which is absolutely the WORST case scenario) then that clocks in at £24/hour. That isn't a realistic scenario though, as most music I buy gets listened to extensively. If I listened to that CD 10 times, I'd be paying £2.40 an hour, which is akin to a pint of beer.
Models: A new model kit could well cost me up to £30. Ouch. Do I likely get at least 15 hours worth of time spent messing with it? You bet. £2/hr.
Concert tickets: I'm seeing Black Stone Cherry in march. Ticket cost me £20 and that's a cheep one. They'll probably play for 2 hours. £10/hr. - Squid only knows how much fucking football tickets cost these days. Much more I suspect.
The point I'm making here is that I don't actually think ANY of this stuff is really overpriced. Assuming you know your own taste well enough to A) Not buy a dud (of anything) and potentially B) Buy something which is useful to you multiple times, I think most pricing is fair, even on the upper end of prices.
But wait, I hear you say. Digital distribution should drive prices down, because they don't have to produce physical media, or ship stuff. Well, most of the time, producing the physical copy of something is essentially negligible when compared to the cost of generating the media itself. The big problem in this case would seem to be the middle men, selling this crap at retail, distribution networks etc.
Which neatly brings me to:
2) Dinosaur business models. This is where I feel the argument against the media conglomerates actually has a bit of a point.
These companies are still stuck in an age and business model where the internet essentially doesn't exist. They have their avenues of distribution, and courier companies, and retail branches, and all this stuff, which for most THNers I would suspect, probably isn't necessary. Why would you walk into a store to buy something, when you could download it to your pc at the same cost (or cheaper), or have it delivered to your house (probably also cheaper)? These retail stores are likely going to go the way of the dodo in the next 30-40 years. I'm suspecting a death of the high street as our generation gets older, and (assuming the recession doesn't turn us into a 'lost generation') becomes the primary earners and spenders. Our children (not that we should have them, but that's a VERY different debate) could grow up almost never having to go into a shop of any sort. Groceries ordered and delivered via the internet, clothes delivered, tried on, then returned/kept dependent on fit, media streamed straight to our TVs. All of these things are possible NOW. Imagine what will happen over the next decades as 3d printing technology improves and becomes more affordable.
These companies are going to have to find a way to monetise their media in a digital world where people want to buy it, and I am a firm believer in the best way to achieve that being finding a price people are willing to pay for, and providing a convenient service.
Things like netflix seem to be on the rise (I can't personally see why, as when I was in Canada, they guys I was staying with had it, and we could never find anything we wanted to watch on it, but I suspect that says more about who I am as a person, than the service itself). Netflix seems to be convenient though, and along with torrenting, and stuff like lovefilm has killed the video rental business dead - A deserved casualty in the fight against dinosaur business models.
This brings me towards my next point:
C) Globalisation.
We live in a globalised world which is ever more connected by things such as social media.
The media industry needs to work out how to turn this into a strength, not just retrench and bury their heads in the sand. If people can use skype to talk to people across the other side of the world for free, instantaneously, why are people in the UK still waiting months longer than people in the US for films to be released? Is there any wonder people are pirating TV when it is released in the US rather than waiting 2 YEARS or something ludicrous for it to be released here? It takes even longer for this stuff to reach other countries. People WANT to watch this stuff, they WANT that product, and they want it NOW, not 2 years in the future for no reason at all. We can put a man on the moon, but we can't have global film and game release dates? We can send an email instantaneously, but the latest series of Futurama is what, travelling the slowest boat in the world? Are the bytes being carried by migrating songbirds? It is ridiculous.
Up until now the media industry's main move on this issue has been to retrench into DRM - Things like DVD region locks, quite possibly the foulest piece of DRM conceived in the last 20 years. This will NEVER work, for reasons that really don't need articulating to people on this site, to quote Jeff Goldblum 'Life will find a way'. I think the cure here, eventually will come in the form of advertising.
Now, I LOATHE advertising, as I personally don't find 99% of it relevant to me in any way, but, as before, I'm not the target audience. But, as we've discussed, with the advent of social media, and bigger web footprints for individuals, we may be on the way towards a glorious future of targeted advertisement, where adverts become relevant to you. With the advent of global megabrands, and their shift towards becoming more like umbrella corporations, selling their products in packages targeted to be attractive to local audiences, advertising could be a major source of revenue.
Stream your episode of Chuck/Futurama/Dr Who/Downton Abby/Film whatever, from CBS or whoever has produced it, get your locally targeted ad break which works wherever you are in the world.
Traxata
Junior Administrator
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Netflix + VPN or, if you're only wanting it for media, www.unblock-us.com try that out for 5 days, it'll give you all of the US content, without breaking your internet. Obviously if you go down the VPN route, all of your data will assume you're in the US. That unblock-US thing only redirects you with some secretive DNS settings the websites listed on it's front page.
Silk,
Netflix + VPN or, if you're only wanting it for media, www.unblock-us.com try that out for 5 days, it'll give you all of the US content, without breaking your internet. Obviously if you go down the VPN route, all of your data will assume you're in the US. That unblock-US thing only redirects you with some secretive DNS settings the websites listed on it's front page.
Traxata
Junior Administrator
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Panda, That last point about targetted ads, that's what Phorm was doing. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm and you'll see how that worked out :/
Double post
Panda, That last point about targetted ads, that's what Phorm was doing. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm and you'll see how that worked out :/
Ki!ler-Mk1
Active Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Well i simply admitted that because i wanted to see the film, and would have paid £6 to go and see it in 2D at the cinema.
I am not sure if you miss read me, but i cant watch tv, and my problem was that they finished running it in 3D and never showed 2D (they have 5 screens, only 1 of which supports 3D).
Edit:
I enjoyed reading that panda. Regarding finding the right price, i have downloaded a fair bit of music(not in the last year, but well when is irrelevant), but from less than 30 artists, i buy about 5% of the music i download, and i dont listen to most(70%+) more five times, I would be happy to buy some of the music i listen to more than 5 times, but then i see the price, and even though i have listened to it on the radio, youtube, and then downloaded it, i cant bring myself to buy, and i know its wrong, and before computers it was stealing.
But if it was say for example, as bloke said, the music is free and you can buy a license to listen to it X times for X price via a global network, i might go for that, say at a cost of 10 minutes /£0.01 but that is not going to happen.
I am sure you may think i am a little to me me me on these topics, but its true, i can only relate to my financial situation, and thats poor, at less than £3.5k/year, music is too expensive, sky movies is a godsend, and so is sky+, heh with some series, particularly the ones which are aired in the UK within a week of their US release, i find i record them on sky for my dad, and then still download them, to avoid the adverts and watch on my 2nd monitor, when i could with the adverts at least watch them downstairs.
Media distribution is living in the past. And greed perpetuates this problem.
All that asside, i did just put down £70 for a bluray disk player - of course if i had 10meg/second download instead of 0.3 i would just download instead, But then that says it all - i can afford what i cant obtain free - feels like a paradox.
Well i simply admitted that because i wanted to see the film, and would have paid £6 to go and see it in 2D at the cinema.
I am not sure if you miss read me, but i cant watch tv, and my problem was that they finished running it in 3D and never showed 2D (they have 5 screens, only 1 of which supports 3D).
Edit:
I enjoyed reading that panda. Regarding finding the right price, i have downloaded a fair bit of music(not in the last year, but well when is irrelevant), but from less than 30 artists, i buy about 5% of the music i download, and i dont listen to most(70%+) more five times, I would be happy to buy some of the music i listen to more than 5 times, but then i see the price, and even though i have listened to it on the radio, youtube, and then downloaded it, i cant bring myself to buy, and i know its wrong, and before computers it was stealing.
But if it was say for example, as bloke said, the music is free and you can buy a license to listen to it X times for X price via a global network, i might go for that, say at a cost of 10 minutes /£0.01 but that is not going to happen.
I am sure you may think i am a little to me me me on these topics, but its true, i can only relate to my financial situation, and thats poor, at less than £3.5k/year, music is too expensive, sky movies is a godsend, and so is sky+, heh with some series, particularly the ones which are aired in the UK within a week of their US release, i find i record them on sky for my dad, and then still download them, to avoid the adverts and watch on my 2nd monitor, when i could with the adverts at least watch them downstairs.
Media distribution is living in the past. And greed perpetuates this problem.
All that asside, i did just put down £70 for a bluray disk player - of course if i had 10meg/second download instead of 0.3 i would just download instead, But then that says it all - i can afford what i cant obtain free - feels like a paradox.
Panda with issues...
Well-Known Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
I was talking more along the lines of the stuff facebook is doing now. 'All your friends read this'
'Four of your friends use steam'
Though I'll admit there is a fine line.
All it would take is for a service to require you signing up to that kind of stuff to use it to make it legal it seems (from my quick browse of that wikipage). WE may not be stupid enough to do it, but we're more web savvy than 99% of the population.
There's nothing illegal about checking someone is in the UK and delivering them the UK version of the coke advert is there?
Double post
Panda, That last point about targetted ads, that's what Phorm was doing. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm and you'll see how that worked out :/
I was talking more along the lines of the stuff facebook is doing now. 'All your friends read this'
'Four of your friends use steam'
Though I'll admit there is a fine line.
All it would take is for a service to require you signing up to that kind of stuff to use it to make it legal it seems (from my quick browse of that wikipage). WE may not be stupid enough to do it, but we're more web savvy than 99% of the population.
There's nothing illegal about checking someone is in the UK and delivering them the UK version of the coke advert is there?
Panda with issues...
Well-Known Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Talking about Dinosaur business models:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/23/game-to-close-35-more-stores-shut-gameplay-co-uk/
Game used to have 4 stores within 2 minute walk in Southampton. West Quay, Bargate, East Street and Debenhams. They also bought out gamestation, so that makes five.
The Bargate one has definitely shut, and i think the debenhams one has too, taking it down to 3. 2 too many.
Talking about Dinosaur business models:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/23/game-to-close-35-more-stores-shut-gameplay-co-uk/
Game used to have 4 stores within 2 minute walk in Southampton. West Quay, Bargate, East Street and Debenhams. They also bought out gamestation, so that makes five.
The Bargate one has definitely shut, and i think the debenhams one has too, taking it down to 3. 2 too many.
Xylak
New Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
Superb post, Mr Panda.
Added to that, I do think there is a darker side to this issue of "copyright protection" and that is one of monitoring, control and censorship.
Governments do not like the internet. It allows too much information to be spread among too many people. This scares them and they have no idea how to stop it.
As it's difficult for them to simply shut a website down, they have to get public opinion on their side. They have to be careful and use excuses like "terrorism" and "copyright". Using the media to boost the message as the media loves blowing scare stories out of all proportion, public opinion is swayed, hey-presto you have a new law.
The UK is getting ready to monitor all the communications.
We are already the most monitored country in the west and this will just fill in the gaps. The ability to abuse the information will be inherent in any law passed (we've seen how that works) and I suspect that the number of genuine terrorist arrests compared to those arrested for something else entirely will be pretty low.
And that's without the other possibilities of companies selling information from data mining and the absolute likelihood of any database being hacked and/or stolen
This really is what it's all about, sadly, and the average man-on-the-street doesn't understand it so allows it to happen.
/Paranoid? No. I KNOW they're watching me.
Superb post, Mr Panda.
Added to that, I do think there is a darker side to this issue of "copyright protection" and that is one of monitoring, control and censorship.
Governments do not like the internet. It allows too much information to be spread among too many people. This scares them and they have no idea how to stop it.
As it's difficult for them to simply shut a website down, they have to get public opinion on their side. They have to be careful and use excuses like "terrorism" and "copyright". Using the media to boost the message as the media loves blowing scare stories out of all proportion, public opinion is swayed, hey-presto you have a new law.
The UK is getting ready to monitor all the communications.
This is outrageous for no other reason than it is government monitoring of the entire population. They sell it to us as "anti-terrorism" but that is just a scare tactic for media to grind on. If this passes it will truly be a sad, sad day for Britain. We will lose our privacy and our liberty, we should be ashamed. And the worst part is, these kind of laws are really, really hard to get rid of.
We are already the most monitored country in the west and this will just fill in the gaps. The ability to abuse the information will be inherent in any law passed (we've seen how that works) and I suspect that the number of genuine terrorist arrests compared to those arrested for something else entirely will be pretty low.
And that's without the other possibilities of companies selling information from data mining and the absolute likelihood of any database being hacked and/or stolen
This really is what it's all about, sadly, and the average man-on-the-street doesn't understand it so allows it to happen.
/Paranoid? No. I KNOW they're watching me.
Traxata
Junior Administrator
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
I asked a guy in store (when I worked at Matalan) if he would like to sign up his email address to the shitty newsletter * and yell at me in front of everyone saying "I don't believe in computers, I believe they are a thing invented by the government to spy on me." I was like well, you have it half right, but what the fuck are you retarded?!
*spam - and even though I refused to do it, if you didn't obtain X e-mail addresses per shift, for say 3 shifts in a row you got a warning etc which will lead upto you getting a disciplinary and eventually fired - mostly scare tactics.... but yeah. That was fun... I was pretty vocal while I was there (having been there for over two years and not signed a contract to say I would agree to that shit) was able to get away with it, mostly. They put it down to you being shit at customer service.
I asked a guy in store (when I worked at Matalan) if he would like to sign up his email address to the shitty newsletter * and yell at me in front of everyone saying "I don't believe in computers, I believe they are a thing invented by the government to spy on me." I was like well, you have it half right, but what the fuck are you retarded?!
*spam - and even though I refused to do it, if you didn't obtain X e-mail addresses per shift, for say 3 shifts in a row you got a warning etc which will lead upto you getting a disciplinary and eventually fired - mostly scare tactics.... but yeah. That was fun... I was pretty vocal while I was there (having been there for over two years and not signed a contract to say I would agree to that shit) was able to get away with it, mostly. They put it down to you being shit at customer service.
Ki!ler-Mk1
Active Member
Re: The thread to web neutrality (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/et al)
And without biometrics there's still no way to prove X phone or computer was being used by who it says it is, only with enforced biometrics or deep forensic personality research(slapped a bunch on long words together, but i think you get it) could they be sure.
Cant you just have shit customers, then again, they're not customers if they're browsing are they.
Stuff
And without biometrics there's still no way to prove X phone or computer was being used by who it says it is, only with enforced biometrics or deep forensic personality research(slapped a bunch on long words together, but i think you get it) could they be sure.
Cant you just have shit customers, then again, they're not customers if they're browsing are they.