[Warhammer] Tabletop Gaming - who here does it?

thatbloke

Junior Administrator
I'm getting back into Warhammer at the moment, recently dug out my old Dwarfs and intend to finish painting them and start gaming again with a friend of mine.

Put simply, who else does this stuff? And once I get myself a fieldable army, who would be up for a battle?
 

magosreborn

New Member
I have my skaven army, but not played in months. Should realy get around to painting the rest, but there's SO many.

The other problem is that it's in 2 army cases atm and there is still more left to build, so transporting them could be an issue :p.

"Glory to Horned Rat Glory to the Council 13"
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
http://www.pegasus-rising.co.uk/index.php?option=com_sobi2&catid=8&Itemid=59

Gaming clubs in the South East.

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-inf

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/index.php?ccUser=j011lsom30a7cp4a5u887svv62

http://www.arcaneminiatures.co.uk/

Some useful links if you're serious about getting back into this.

All those 3 stores offer 10-15% off RRP as standard, and typically free P&P over a certain price. There isn't really any reason to buy GW from a GW store anymore. Out of those 3, maelstrom is easily my store of choice:

Great stock levels of a hugely diverse number of games. Good store layout. Free p&p over £30. Frequent further discount codes of 10-15%. Tiered discount of 1, 2 and 4% dependent upon how much you spend in one go, and a 'moneyback' feature, where 1% of whatever you spend is put into your account for use against future purchases. Normally ship and receive mini's within 1 to 1.5 weeks. Free p&p is royal mail, so depends whether you like that or not. I personally prefer royal mail, as it is only a short trip to their depot from me. Maelstrom have ploughed money they've made from their online store into a gaming centre to rival warhammer world in lenton http://events.maelstromgames.co.uk/, which to me, is REALLY impressive. They aren't just some faceless online only business (which is what wayland seems to be(though i'm not sure they dont have a store somewhere), no offence to them though, they've done me proud on plenty of stuff).

Wayland doesn't offer quite as much saving, but tends to get products shipped faster, and normally couriers.

Arcane is just some guy with a shop somewhere, but offers some nice starter deals on Warmahordes etc. Also fairly quick shipping.

Ghostwolf and myself are currently painting up flames of war http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=36 and have a variety of other stuff between us. I can say that I'm pretty much done with GW, but I know ghostwolf still enjoys bits and bobs.
 

Velaphor

New Member
Didn't really get that much into Warhammer might now that they have changed the rules a bit but mainly I play 40k agaisnt Huung.
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
If you don't mind me asking... why?

The over commercialisation. Prices have literally doubled in the last 10 years, and they really can't claim that's inflation anymore. You can't even go into a store and just chat now, as the guys they employ only seem to know about the latest offerings, and not about the game itself. Or, at least not as much as they used to.

Couple this with fantastic games systems like warmachine and how inexpensive it is, and it's no wonder the veteran crowd of GW has moved on.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Bitches, my gaming club is in the south-east and not on that list!
http://maritimegames.co.uk/ details here <-

We have an assortment of both fantasy and 40k players, and also other systems like warmachine and malefeux.

Probably an old list., or you may not be GCN registered or something.

If you don't mind me asking... why?

Not really sure that this is the right forum point for it tbh.

However, as a summary:

Played GW games since ~1996 on and off.

My first edition of warhammer was 5th.

First ed of 40k was 2nd.

So, to put it into perspective, I've grown up with this.

Objectively, over this time I've seen:

Strong improvements to the warhammer rules from 5th to 6th ed, followed by a massive deterioration from 6th to 8th,.

Comparatively, the rules shift from 2nd to 3rd ed 40k was good in some ways, terrible in others (for example, removing movement values).

White dwarf go from: Something useful, to essentially a promotional flyer for new models, though the few more recent ones I've seen have some decent painting guides. Maybe it will improve again. I'm not holding my breath.

Paint pots go full circle, from excellently sealed rubber tops, to disasterous screw plastic tops, to terribly sealed plastic flip tops, back to rubber ones again.

A shift towards: Selling more models, to children essentially.

I'll discuss this later in more detail.

Basically, games workshop's business model has gone from: Being a 'games workshop' to 'selling product'

This is a strong business model, and actually benefits the modelling industry as a whole, again, which we'll see later.

Bear in mind, that this is only my opinion, and I'm sure Ronin can chime in and discuss stuff that happened before I was even born, but:

Everything that has changed in the rules has basically been a way to sell more product. Rules are now heavily simplified (See lack of movement values in 40k) rather than streamlined in order to appeal to a younger audience. Fantasy rules have now become a case of who can put more models on the table, favouring giant units There is very little that is actually tactical in either game system. It is now about list development. 40k apocalypse was for this reason too. New editions of the games are being pumped out left right and centre, as are army books. Now, these books are being revisited quicker and quicker, and you are having to buy them more often, due to the fact that GW are not even TRYING to put out a balanced set of rules. Because, at the end of the day, why would they bother? - If the new set of rules you bring out for an army are far stronger than everyone elses rules, well, all the players who are desperate to win at all costs will buy them, and everyone else will cry. But then, you need to 'update' all the other lists ASAP, because, well, they are 'out of date and underpowered', and need to be 'brought in line with the new lists'. No one who has seen the current blood angels codex can deny this power creep.

At the same time, the lack of tactics within the game and the (even stronger) influx of children into the hobby leaves more mature gamers like myself wanting something different. Games workshop used to also provide this, in the form of their specialist games list, but support for that is essentially nonexistent.

Which is why GW doesn't have any hold over me anymore.

Why this is a good business model for everyone:

GW sells far more product than it ever did using this model, and is far more streamlined: - They couldn't care less about WHO they are selling the product to, as long as they are selling it.

This is good for other games manufacturers because: - Well, anyone who is driven away from GW probably still wants to take part in the hobby, and that is where there is a niche for other companies. There are more players interested in trying something different, whether it is Flames of War, Infinity, Malifaux, Warmahordes, or any of the other systems out there. More children coming into the hobby with GW is fine, because, well, eventually they'll mature, and stop being smelly annoying little brats, and may start on one of these other game systems. I have NO PROBLEM with GW babysitting these gamers until they hopefully grow up a bit.

The dissatisfaction about GW has essentially led to an explosion in other game systems, many of which have fantastic models, which has led to more of a 'free market' and less of a gw monopoly in the games sector.

There are plenty of options for the more mature gamer. And by this, I mean someone who has numerous years in the hobby, rather than something necessarily totally age based.

Amongst all of this, GW still maintain the best range of miniatures on the market, particularly in terms of plastics, and continue to produce fantastic new sculpts.
 

Ronin Storm

Administrator
Staff member
I'm sure Ronin can chime in and discuss stuff that happened before I was even born

I can. It's not entirely relevant, however. The game had already changed by the time that (many of) you picked up the hobby. I'm from the WH40K Rogue Trader era, when the game was still confused about whether it was a wargame or a role-playing game (more the former than the latter, clearly). In that regard, the WH Fantasy Battle stuff was probably superior, but 40K always had a greater theme pull for me.

All happened in the late 80's depression when GW had to decide how it was going to survive. Stay eclectic and fold, or focus hard on where it makes real money and survive? Clearly, they chose the latter and their business changed forever.

Theme-wise, I can see the attraction of WH40K. It's a rich world filled with all sorts of possibilities. I haven't played with any of the newer systems, though; nothing since around '93.

Thing is, the world of board games (war games being a subset) has expanded and flourished and the options are huge in all areas. A site I can't recommend enough is Board Game Geek. There's a fair representation of all manner of games over there and while there's a slight negative current against GW and a slight positive tendency for eurogames, they have so many users contributing that you can usually get to the real story.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
A site I can't recommend enough is Board Game Geek. There's a fair representation of all manner of games over there and while there's a slight negative current against GW and a slight positive tendency for eurogames, they have so many users contributing that you can usually get to the real story.

My main issue with BGG is the site is about as streamlined as a porcupine sat in a christmas tree made out of sandpaper. Trying to find anything in there is like looking in to the ark of the covenant.

What was the reason for the gw hate over there? Wasn't it something like gw asking them to remove all imagery of gw products or something? Presumably not realising the 'advertising' power bgg has...
 

Kasatka

Active Member
GW refuse to let any other site host any images or use their official material in other publications, even if you do reference the copyright holder... their legal department must get really bored and just search for sites to troll.
 

Ghostwolf67

Well-Known Member
I'm still a collector and painter of 40k and fantasy. I have half a dozen armies in 40k and two in fantasy all in various stages of completion.

I wouldnt call myself really a 'gamer' when it comes to warhammer anymore and i'll only play friends really. But if you do get your army up and running bloke i'll be willing to get owned by dwarves.

On the topic of GW... Everything Panda has said is valid. I really didnt want this thread to go down the path of 'the problem with GW is' but hey its a long list.

I was drawn to GW by the fluff, essentially the universes they had created, the unique and brutal worlds and races they had made and the stories behind them were quite captivating to me. Its a complete shame then that GW has lately gone down a path of complete separation of fluff from game. Its pretty much cut out the heart of the hobby in my opinion. The very thing that drew me in and made me want to game is essentially being written out. Everytime a codex/army book/rule book comes out i'm dissapointed on this aspect. If you want to see it first hand just compare the 4th ed 40k rule book to the 5th ed one. The difference in focus is totally clear.
 

Kasatka

Active Member
My gaming group largely prefers fantasy for the actual gameplay feel (few hundred men/lizards/rats/zombies/elves/dwarves running around in a field killing eachother), but 40k for the setting and stories (spaceships, gods of the warp etc).
I pretty much only read Black Library novels lately, and my Warhammer RPG shelf is not only bulging at the sides but has also put a massive dent in my wallet. I guess the money at least went to a third-party and not straight to GW.
But that kind of hits the nail on the head - the best aspects of the GW hobby is now conducted by third-parties. I buy their models and rulebooks cheaper from online stores, i buy their specialist games from places like e-bay and i buy their roleplay products from online stores too.
 

Ki!ler-Mk1

Active Member
A GW opened in my local town about 6 months ago, and it was just after i got back into gamesworkshop games, but as several people have posted, rather than make the armies fair and balanced, they just make the next army book released with models the most powerful, and keep remaking each army to bring them up, but the newest army is nearly always the most powerful:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1160010a

I personally think it looks stupid.
 

Huung

Well-Known Member
A GW opened in my local town about 6 months ago, and it was just after i got back into gamesworkshop games, but as several people have posted, rather than make the armies fair and balanced, they just make the next army book released with models the most powerful, and keep remaking each army to bring them up, but the newest army is nearly always the most powerful:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1160010a

I personally think it looks stupid.

I thought £33 wasn't bad - then noticed it was plastic. UGH. That right there is why I don't buy models from them anymore. Ebay ftw.
 

Kasatka

Active Member
Yeah the value for money is now terrible, as GW still do metal models for some units (meaning 30+ quid minimum for a unit) and the plastic unit boxes got halved in size and then increased in cost (used to be 20 models for about 18 quid, now its 10 for 12).

To add to the list of cheaper alternative places to buy, as i agree with maelstrom games whole heartedly, i'll offer up http://gamingfigures.com/ as they do great discounts on bulk purchases.
 

Xarlaxas

Active Member
Well, more on the original topic, I have about 7000 points of Skaven, and about the same of Dark Elves, and around 3000 points of the new Dark Eldar, of course, only about half of each of those is anywhere near painted.

I also have good old Eldar Corsairs for BFG that need to be repainted, about 1500 points of them!

Of course the problem is that I'm up in merry old Scotland. ;) I tend to play 40K mainly, ironically because of the new Warhammer rules encouraging such large armies: it takes me about 20 minutes to unpack my 200+ Skaven for a regular battle. . . .

The Games Workshop in my town is pretty good, but I completely agree about the issues that the company has had of late (one of my friends is a share-holder and regularly reports on the new ways we're about to be shafted!).

I spent a ridiculous amount of money on Warhammer after my dad passed away (things help soothe the pain!), but am now in the position where I can see that I have enough models to do what I want with them, and that I don't really need to buy more, especially as I'll be moving continent in a year or so. . . .
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
A GW opened in my local town about 6 months ago, and it was just after i got back into gamesworkshop games, but as several people have posted, rather than make the armies fair and balanced, they just make the next army book released with models the most powerful, and keep remaking each army to bring them up, but the newest army is nearly always the most powerful:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1160010a

I personally think it looks stupid.

I laughed for 10 minutes straight after seeing that model.
 

Xarlaxas

Active Member
It really is terrible, but I bet there will be a lot of them being deployed, they're double the size of a Demon Prince and ridiculously powerful by all accounts. . . .
 
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