One of the best things about Cataclysm...
- Thread starter Windzarko
- Start date
Hoy, 
Well, I don't really know about this, but the reverse is most emphatically true!
Cheers,
J.
Well, I don't really know about this, but the reverse is most emphatically true!
Cheers,
J.
Chumpo
In Cryo Sleep
You're shit!
Burrick
Member
YOU! need crowd controling you tosser!!
Silk
Well-Known Member
Erm great - so we're eliminating pug's from being practical for 5mans again? Huge step backwards.
Sorry but as a tankadin it's a complete pita to try get group that can cc mobs *before* they walk into my consecrate (or even know how to cc / what they can cc).
In fact it's quite difficult even with players who do know their stuff. My class tanks via AE damage afterall.
I guess it's back to the old and slow task of marking mobs, and getting players to cc pull with sheep or whatever. Great fun when it's a pug, you're not on comms and you need at least 2 players to do it in sync.
HoR is already like this, I've tried to get pugs to use cc as the first waves are very hard, but they never get it right. Always barely scrape through it.
Sigh. Save that sh1t for raids tbfh - some of us don't want wow to be harder and actually enjoy a more relaxed pace where tanks have to worry about tanking and healers healing but that's pretty much it.
It's going to be back to the days of never instancing (before dungeon finder, where I'd ask over and over for guild runs only to be met by silence, thus never run 5 mans, eventually quitting wow)
Sorry but as a tankadin it's a complete pita to try get group that can cc mobs *before* they walk into my consecrate (or even know how to cc / what they can cc).
In fact it's quite difficult even with players who do know their stuff. My class tanks via AE damage afterall.
I guess it's back to the old and slow task of marking mobs, and getting players to cc pull with sheep or whatever. Great fun when it's a pug, you're not on comms and you need at least 2 players to do it in sync.
HoR is already like this, I've tried to get pugs to use cc as the first waves are very hard, but they never get it right. Always barely scrape through it.
Sigh. Save that sh1t for raids tbfh - some of us don't want wow to be harder and actually enjoy a more relaxed pace where tanks have to worry about tanking and healers healing but that's pretty much it.
It's going to be back to the days of never instancing (before dungeon finder, where I'd ask over and over for guild runs only to be met by silence, thus never run 5 mans, eventually quitting wow)
Zaggu
In Cryo Sleep
While I like the idea of people not steamrolling everything the moment it comes out, I can't help having the same concern as Bemused here - what decent "spammable" CC are you likely to find in a PuG comprising a prot pally, unholy DK, arms warrior, and resto shammy? Or most random comps for that matter?
Sasser
New Member
sap the prot pally, blind the DK, tell the arms warrior to go grab a drink, then stunlock/evasion tank the mobs to death with the resto shammy healing you
On a more serious note, CC requires next to no skill, not breaking CC does.
Nactall
New Member
Well tbh doing heroics with pugs is not a thing i enjoy anyways because i play the haven game. And imo heroics are shit atm way to easy, i have good gear now so this is not strange but it was already easy in full blue. So yeah. Make the mobs stronger so i can do more then running and pressing avengershield and actualy use tactics in Heroics, Yes i dared to mention. The t word Atm tank is the easiest role in a Heroic, its so shit easy that i consider making a dps my main because Then i actually have to do things.
Atm tank is the easiest role in a Heroic, its so shit easy that i consider making a dps my main because Then i actually have to do things.
Windzarko
Well-Known Member
To me, the proper re-introduction of CC will make instances not just boring AoE zergfests, and will be one of the biggest indicators for whether or not a player has any notable skill or worth. Don't know how to open your spellbook and find a short-cast (sometimes instant) spell that temporarily crowd-controls a target? Get the hell off my internet.
Avoiding breaking CC is harder than using it, as Sass said, but is still pretty damned simple. Here are a few pro tips:
* Don't hit something that's CC'd
* Don't use big bastard AoE attacks near something that's CC'd
* Don't use consecrate on top of CC'd mobs
* Don't break the CC.
Simple, huh?
It might make PuG'ing a little harder. To be honest, I couldn't care less. Hopefully it'll drive the retards back under their rocks, or force them to learn how to not be so hopelessly shite at the game.
For all the "simplification and homogenization" crying I see about Cataclysm, I also see more skill going back in; healing won't be so simple and spammy, CC will make dungeons/raids a bit more than tunnelvisioning DPS-happy zergfests, and hopefully the most faceroll DPS specs will require a little more attention to play and not resort to FCFS rotations (don't get me wrong, I enjoy Ret now, but I'd like something a little more skilled than it currently is, since the height of skill for me at the moment in terms of just the DPS aspect of my spec is dealing properly with the mana hemorrhagingly awesome 2T10 set bonus)
Avoiding breaking CC is harder than using it, as Sass said, but is still pretty damned simple. Here are a few pro tips:
* Don't hit something that's CC'd
* Don't use big bastard AoE attacks near something that's CC'd
* Don't use consecrate on top of CC'd mobs
* Don't break the CC.
Simple, huh?
It might make PuG'ing a little harder. To be honest, I couldn't care less. Hopefully it'll drive the retards back under their rocks, or force them to learn how to not be so hopelessly shite at the game.
For all the "simplification and homogenization" crying I see about Cataclysm, I also see more skill going back in; healing won't be so simple and spammy, CC will make dungeons/raids a bit more than tunnelvisioning DPS-happy zergfests, and hopefully the most faceroll DPS specs will require a little more attention to play and not resort to FCFS rotations (don't get me wrong, I enjoy Ret now, but I'd like something a little more skilled than it currently is, since the height of skill for me at the moment in terms of just the DPS aspect of my spec is dealing properly with the mana hemorrhagingly awesome 2T10 set bonus)
Try healing these days, really challenging xD
/cast renew
Look, I am done for the next 15 seconds, after that:
/cast renew
Rinse and repeat
I hope Cata will make every aspect (Tanking, dupsing and healing) of the game more challenging and I think CC is part of that too!
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
Also remember that the current level of gear in WotLK is massively over the level of gear that is required for heroics.
I bet if you all got into a full set of ilvl 200 gear and went to do a heroic you'd suddenly find it alot more difficult and maybe you'd need some of that CC again.
I think what they need to do in Cata is find some way of making the way that heroic instances have to be cleared while levelling and before you start getting raid gear still relevant at higher gearing levels (like when, say, the third major content patch lands, like the situation is in WotLK).
This could perhaps be achieved by somehow scaling the instance difficulty based on the gearing level of the party.
The problem at the moment is it's very easy to faceroll stuff with the gear you can get from grinding heroics (and replacing the quest greens with ilvl 232 stuff). For people that already know what they are doing, this is not an issue.
Now let's pick some numbers out of the air and say that heroic instances in Cata will drop ilvl 300 gear. Will the CC still be relevant one year later when everyone is running around in ilvl 360 gear? If so, then gratz to Blizzard. If not, we'll have precisely the same situation then as we do at this time with WotLK.
I bet if you all got into a full set of ilvl 200 gear and went to do a heroic you'd suddenly find it alot more difficult and maybe you'd need some of that CC again.
I think what they need to do in Cata is find some way of making the way that heroic instances have to be cleared while levelling and before you start getting raid gear still relevant at higher gearing levels (like when, say, the third major content patch lands, like the situation is in WotLK).
This could perhaps be achieved by somehow scaling the instance difficulty based on the gearing level of the party.
The problem at the moment is it's very easy to faceroll stuff with the gear you can get from grinding heroics (and replacing the quest greens with ilvl 232 stuff). For people that already know what they are doing, this is not an issue.
Now let's pick some numbers out of the air and say that heroic instances in Cata will drop ilvl 300 gear. Will the CC still be relevant one year later when everyone is running around in ilvl 360 gear? If so, then gratz to Blizzard. If not, we'll have precisely the same situation then as we do at this time with WotLK.
Nactall
New Member
well look at tbc they hit the right spot there, when i started to do heroics there i got a reality check I was not able to do them and had to do normals and then heroics. Northrend was basicly > get def capped and start running and stop at the end. Aye indeed my gear makes me awesemo atm but well tbh so it did back in tbc I was one of the most awesome geared paladin tanks running around then, still when doing heroics I had to look out what to pull because when I pulled an extra group it was hard and 2 groups makes it near impossible. In Northrend its basicly you can pull shitloads of mobs tank em aoe em down "ohw there is a retard who just pulled 2 extra groups, well lets just stand and use consecrate and we can aoe them down, healer please use one heal on me else il get below 90%".
Altough I have to say, there is one problem with gear atm that makes a difference this is that the item levels of the gear, back in tbc I was at the end still running with some pieces of "starter" epics just because the black temple upgrade was just not that much better or did not have the exact stats that i needed. This was not a problem because the scaling was not that a big of difference its either use this armor piece that has 5 more points or this with 5 less. Atm it is "well this 200 piece gives me nice stuff and all but that piece with 64 levels higher so it gives me > 1/4more stats. I actualy dont want those stats but well its so much higher so Il cope with it".
Altough I have to say, there is one problem with gear atm that makes a difference this is that the item levels of the gear, back in tbc I was at the end still running with some pieces of "starter" epics just because the black temple upgrade was just not that much better or did not have the exact stats that i needed. This was not a problem because the scaling was not that a big of difference its either use this armor piece that has 5 more points or this with 5 less. Atm it is "well this 200 piece gives me nice stuff and all but that piece with 64 levels higher so it gives me > 1/4more stats. I actualy dont want those stats but well its so much higher so Il cope with it".
Silk
Well-Known Member
What about cc'ing undead with no priest?
It's fine for guild groups if you can find the right classes for each instance.
But tbh I think the days of needing X or Y class for Z instance are not missed by anyone. A re-introduction of CC will mean a re-introduction of class dependency. Bad, bad move.
And saying don't break CC is a tad insulting - pally tanks use AE in majority of their attacks. All it takes is for a player to CC a mob too close to the pack you're tanking and it's fucked up then because your consc is already down, you can't turn it off so none of the mobs are CC-able now, the mobs are already on you and short of running back another 50 yards and expecting everyone to follow wtf do you do. Messy, irritating and against the point of gaming (fun, if you remember).
Then we have avenger's shield and hammer of righteous. I guess they just wont' be used then? And we're gonna have to scrap concecrate for sure by sounds of it. That leaves hmm, about two attacks and one taunt. Yeah, fantastic.
A smack in the face to protadins, noone will want us in groups.
Nactall
New Member
This is just the point what everyone is talking about, this makes stuff harder = more interesting and fun for most of us.
This is just nonesence, this is not a smack in the face to paladins at all, all tanks have aoe stuff these days so every tank has to worry about this. The only thing it does is that you actually have to think one second before you pull, yes paladins have a bit more aoe indeed but well this is then just a way for you and me to show other people where awesome. That will just trow 12 years olds or other ppl that are shit back in the hole they came from.
I am thrilled to show people again what my tanking abilitys are and get complemented for my tanking again.
ohw yeah plus they fixed evenger shield to not break cc