One of the best things about Cataclysm...
- Thread starter Windzarko
- Start date
Burrick
Member
Besides you all pay your monthly dues to play this game, and thats all it is, a game, moaning here aint gonna get the game changed, you might as well moan to you front door about it. So basicly if you dont like it, leave, stop paying each month and just go, other than that keep going and see what you can do but keep your pointless moaning for your front door please
Silk
Well-Known Member
Not trying to be nasty at all. I just beleive there should be something for everyone in wow, and anyone saying the best stuff should be raiders only (when for casual gamers it takes a month to get one piece) is a tad snobbish / elitist. 
I have nothing against people being able to get better stuff than me from raids afterall. So why be against it taking me an age to get similar items in my own way..
I have nothing against people being able to get better stuff than me from raids afterall. So why be against it taking me an age to get similar items in my own way..
I don't agree. They need to pick, thats what we are discussing here
We (elitist/snobbish players
) want more difficult heroics with cc and stuff.You ( the casual and I-don't-have-a-lot-of-time player) want relax runs in which you can grind some gear that is somewhat for raiding.
So yeah, they need to pick. I hope they make it harder, but I wouldn't cry and scream if they keep it this way. The way of gearing now has it's pluspoints aswell
As some already said: Time will tell!
*EDIT* Maybe they should implement a legendary instance mode xD
thatbloke
Junior Administrator
Huung
Well-Known Member
Done. Again
Silkth said:
This is my biggest point - if you've not got the time to raid, why do you even need raiding level gear?
I can understand the want to have the best items the game can offer, but when you won't actually be using that for any reason other than to run low content like heroics, it's totally unnecessary. That, and if you are running only heroics, having that kind of gear then just takes the fun out of the heroics by making them too easy, leaving you with no challenging or fulfilling content at all...
What I want is for the game to remain challenging even when the higher tiers of raiding come out. HoR is a good example of how Blizz tried this expansion, but when I left even that was becoming easy enough to run with a PuG, provided I was tanking/healing.
As one of the hard-core no-lifer players I spent most of my day either levelling alts or getting my 80s into the best gear they could be in pre-raid - through running a ton of heroics. Sure, I spent a good 10+ hours a week in raids, but I spent around 40+ hours a week in heroics. The main content, even for those with a lot of time for the game IS STILL heroics. I just want some form of challenge for at least some of the heroics, to make the drudgery less "drudgeryish".
By all means, don't push out the casual players. With any luck, they're the ones who get hooked and become hard core. They also tend to be friendlier, as they haven't had their souls consumed. I just don't see the point in giving raiding gear to people who won't raid. It just annoys those who worked hard in raids in the last tier, when a few weeks after a new tier is patched in and everyone suddenly has the same gear as them just through running a few heroics.
Razaak
Well-Known Member
If all you can do is heroics, then you can get the following without ever entering a raid instance:
i245 head and shoulders - triumph emblems
i245 ring, trinket, libram - triumph emblems
i245 bracers and chest - crafted
i264 boots and legs - crafted
That will put you on par with an ICC10 raider in most of the major equipment slots, and certainly a decent enough set to get into ICC10/25 PUGs. And once you're in ICC25 PUGs then you're going to start getting drops that are better than us "hardcore" raiders doing ICC10. Bloody casuals...
i245 head and shoulders - triumph emblems
i245 ring, trinket, libram - triumph emblems
i245 bracers and chest - crafted
i264 boots and legs - crafted
That will put you on par with an ICC10 raider in most of the major equipment slots, and certainly a decent enough set to get into ICC10/25 PUGs. And once you're in ICC25 PUGs then you're going to start getting drops that are better than us "hardcore" raiders doing ICC10. Bloody casuals...
Nactall
New Member
Not trying to be nasty at all. I just beleive there should be something for everyone in wow, and anyone saying the best stuff should be raiders only (when for casual gamers it takes a month to get one piece) is a tad snobbish / elitist.
Well that is exact my point tbh what i wanted to make, the snobbish/elitists are the majority in this game so well if they want to make more moneys they make the game for this kind of players, there is just not enough money to be made from the casual gamer.
Huung
Well-Known Member
Content patches and their orientation within an expansion. The casuals only have the time to be doing the content originally released, namely heroics. Intra-expansion content patches are focussed around new raids, balancing the classes based on the raid content, and generally making the casual content easier to run through so people can gear/level faster to get to the raid content.
Although, I can't give you figures, and I'm not therefore saying you're at all wrong, D. It just seems when the vast majority of the content is based around the raiding, and not around the casual stuff, that's where their main user base lies.
Silk
Well-Known Member
If all you can do is heroics, then you can get the following without ever entering a raid instance:
i245 head and shoulders - triumph emblems
i245 ring, trinket, libram - triumph emblems
i245 bracers and chest - crafted
i264 boots and legs - crafted
That will put you on par with an ICC10 raider in most of the major equipment slots, and certainly a decent enough set to get into ICC10/25 PUGs. And once you're in ICC25 PUGs then you're going to start getting drops that are better than us "hardcore" raiders doing ICC10. Bloody casuals...
lol yeah I'll just dig out 16,000g for the two ilev 264's
Pocket change!
Again I don't see the problem with being able to obtain this loot. There's still much better to be had in raiding.
Huung
Well-Known Member
lol yeah I'll just dig out 16,000g for the two ilev 264's
Pocket change!
Again I don't see the problem with being able to obtain this loot. There's still much better to be had in raiding.
ICC10 = 251s
245s aren't all that much different, 6 ilevels is very little in terms of stats. Fair enough the 232 -> 251 is a nice jump, but it's still only 1 tier. It just feels very wrong being able to buy the previous tier set with only heroic content having been done.
Silk
Well-Known Member
Done. Again
This is my biggest point - if you've not got the time to raid, why do you even need raiding level gear?
I can understand the want to have the best items the game can offer, but when you won't actually be using that for any reason other than to run low content like heroics, it's totally unnecessary. That, and if you are running only heroics, having that kind of gear then just takes the fun out of the heroics by making them too easy, leaving you with no challenging or fulfilling content at all...
.
You know, there are other ways to challenge yourself. In my case I'm currently challenging myself to obtain as many achievements as possible - doable in the timeslots I have to play, and requires lots of patience.
Your idea of challenging is wiping on a boss until it's learnt and on farm status. I've been there in the days of level 60 40 man content, which (I sound like an old record) was so difficult it puts any new world content to shame. You guys have it easy - no, really. 40 man instances where typcially one person dead = wipe was how it used to be.
There are different ways to challenge oneself.
If anything I think it's a darn sight easier to get ilev 251-264 from raids than it is to grind 2 frost badges a day through my millionth HC. Heck on a lucky raid you'll get two upgrades in mere hours, which would take me three months with how I (have to) use the HC method.
As for "needing" the gear - I never said I was permanently retired from raiding. Fridays are always an option, for example. People have seen me attend the occasional one, it's nice to have the right gear and have the option to be able to raid with my guildies, without them having to turn me down due to lack of gear (and possibly cancel the whole raid if they can't find another tank).
So thanks to there being badges from HC's you guys have me as a backup tank. I really don't see how anyone loses in this scenario.
Another "need" for the gear is I would have thought quite obvious.. The more powerful my chara, the more challenges it opens up. Soloing AQ40 trash for example, which I'll do soon for the mounts. Wouldn't even be an option in ilev200 gear.
Silk
Well-Known Member
If anyone still ran Ulduar then your point would be valid. But they don't. So how can you expect players to get ilev 232 from an instance nobody runs?
If things were as you say.. no badges.. you basically introduced a scenario where someone hits 80 and hits a brick wall. They can't get anything better than ilev 200, and that's way too low to raid ICC, and noone runs Naxx anymore letalone higher stuff.
Eventually because of this, your raid recruit pool dries up - so you can't raid any more without reruiting ilev 200 people and then back-pedalling to all the older content whcih I'm sure you'd just LOVE.
Blizzard aren't daft, they opened up 232 to HC's because they are quite well aware that players would struggle to get Ulduar groups once all the shiny new ICC stuff went live. They didn't want to have a situation where a player doesn't have good enough gear for ICC and *can't get it either*. Would make no sense!
Reading over the last para.. year Blizz aren't daft. So I hope when introducing CC, they don't make it class specific (like priests>undeads) or go overboard needing three CC's per pull.. else we're in for a world of pain. I guess I'll keep my faith in them for now.
Silk
Well-Known Member
Erm, we pay the same subscription.. so isn't it a bit obvious that they make the most money by making everyone happy? Isn't that blatantly, stupidly obvious?
Also you're assuming casual is a low player base - it isn't. Many adults play wow, you know, with jobs and or kids.
And tbh being a raider doens't mean you have to be snobby or elitist -I never was and I was more hardcore than the softcore raids you get nowadays. You don't have to look down on casual players like they're inferior or don't deserve epics.
I thought I'd aready explained that in effect it can take me 30+ hours to get one item, whereas a raider could get the same in an hour. So in effect the casual is playing longer for that item, a lot longer. Just spread over more time.
The way you view things, I can only imagine you think a part-time checkout operator on minimum wage should never be able to afford a porche. No matter how long or hard he works. The IT manager on the other hand, more hours, harder job, yeah he can have one in a couple of months no worries.
Oh reality check, they both can get the porch. Just in different ways / over different periods of time.
So back to wow. Raiders get the nice stuff first - a LOT quicker than the rest of us. That's fair. But if you're saying there should be *no* other way to get stuff - then I'm gob smacked. It doesn't serve you any benefit for wow to be like that, and it certainly doesn't serve me any.
Silk
Well-Known Member
Also to add to this - it's the nature of wow for stuff you just got (and often put in a lot of playtime to get) to be swifly out-dated by the next raid or expansion. You have to accept this. Just because you had to "work" (I think we mean "play", lol) for it, doens't mean it won't get outdated and shoudln't be available to newer players, or players who can't raid.
When Cata comes out most of your gear will instantly be redundant too (we'll be able to get better items from solo questing).
Huung
Well-Known Member
Ulduar is 2 tiers back, not 1. The last tier was ToC, which is where 232s come from. I wouldn't mind players getting decent gear from heroics, but it would have to cost alot more badges. Double the amount of badges needed for the t9 and it might sound more reasonable. Then at least those who spent months raiding to get pieces of gear wouldn't feel annoyed when a fresh 80 gets the same piece in a day.