Being female in public is a crime

[waterproofbob]

Yes but the only rape from a taxi I've ever seen in the news was a licenced taxi. So the debate to me isn't about a cab being licenced or not, it's about blaming a girl for jumping in a cab on her own.

Also the other things you mention are generally self inflicted, whereas rape most certainly isn't.

Unlicensed taxi stuff is or at least was a very real issue in London. Not just from the point of view of rape, but also from theft and mugging of punters.

Also the doctors posters are trying to achieve the exact same thing. They are not saying if you smoke a cigarette you are going to get lung cancer. They are saying here is the risk you are taking, you are increasing the risk to your health. This poster is exactly the same, it is not saying if you get into a unlicensed taxi as a woman by yourself you are going to get raped. It is simply stating that you are at a much greater risk. Licensed cabbies are on a clock, are traceable and have all passed a CRB. In exactly the same way as people who have never smoked still have a risk of lung cancer, you could still get sexually assaulted in a licensed taxi. However due to the rules enforcing that, it is much less likely.

Another example that comes to mind, I remember a bunch of police posters regarding typically older people who lived on their own and people claiming to be council workers/plumbers anything that could get them into the house to then rob the person. The poster showed a old lady crying having been robbed. The poster read to always ask for identification from the person and a work order for anything like that before allowing them into the house. It is not suggesting that it is the old ladies fault she has been robbed but increasing awareness of a potential threat in a shocking way.

 

[Taffy]

"don't wear short skirts as it tempts sexual predators and it's YOUR FAULT if you get raped"? "Don't go out to the petrol station at night because you might get raped and it's YOUR OWN FAULT"? "Don't catch the bus to work in a morning because then you might get raped and it's YOUR OWN FAULT"?

The way a woman dresses has nothing to do with the chances of them getting raped. Rapists do what they do because of a number of factors, the attractiveness of the victim is NOT one of them. However, picking up women using an unbooked minicab is a prime method rapists use to commit their crime. These posters are simply giving some common sense advice to women to avoid such a huge risk. It isn't saying 'stay indoors', it's saying 'avoid unbooked minicabs because there's quite a high risk the driver is a rapist'. There's a reason these minicabs are so often targeted by campaigns like this, not to mention the police.

Anyone interpreting the poster as aiming to do anything more than that is trying to make an issue out of something that isn't one.

The blame should always reside with the rapist, and the police force.

the poster isn't putting the blame on the victim. FYI, I work for the police. What do you propose we do if we can't give out common sense advice like this, in fear of somebody somewhere screaming that were simply shifting the responsibility?

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

I try to avoid discussions regarding rape because when i was at college, studying a law taster course, i er dont get it. So i avoid it where i can.

Actually I live in Ipswich and there were five prostitues that were raped and murdered by a local taxi drive, that was a fun time to be in suffolk.

Surely only prostitutes were in danger?

I dont think this poster is well made, but i also do not think it is trying to shift the blame, as above, its a vehicle to other crimes.

Ps. Whats a minicab?

 

[Peepee]

I try to avoid discussions regarding rape because when i was at college, studying a law taster course, i er dont get it. So i avoid it where i can.



Surely only prostitutes were in danger?

I dont think this poster is well made, but i also do not think it is trying to shift the blame, as above, its a vehicle to other crimes.

Ps. Whats a minicab?

Derp a taxi

And well he was picking the prostitues but no one can know if he would have picked anyone else thats just one of those things you cant know.

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

What is a "Derp a taxi"?

Yes well, he's locked up now, which is good.

 

[Zooggy]

Hey,

if I go out looking for a bar of chocolate it's ok for some nutcase to come along and force it down my throat (no pun intended) with physical force, or at knife point? I wanted it, hell I was even stood outside Thorntons, a place renown for having LOTS of chocolate.. I was stood there practically drooling. So it's fine, right?

I have to say, I want to print this out in pamphlets, preferrably using toxic ink, and ram them down the throat of any idiot who's ever said "she was just asking for it"!

Kudos.

Cheers,
J.

 

[Huung]

I do have respect. And it's a large factor, yes. Think about it, would a rapist rather go for someone wearing jeans / trousers / whatever, or a miniskirt?

Rape is about control, not about sex. It's not done on a whim out of lust, it's almost always planned and also most often by someone who knows the victim personally.

Women dressing like sluts may be "asking for it" but they're not asking just anyone, so rape can never be blamed on the woman's dress sense (or lack thereof).

What do you propose we do if we can't give out common sense advice like this, in fear of somebody somewhere screaming that were simply shifting the responsibility?

Totally agree with this. There will always be some idiot moaning at those in authority that they're not doing enough, only for the authorities to do more, to then be put down by someone like this woman because it's suddenly "too much" or "they're trying to shift responsibility". The authorities are always in a thankless position, and as long as these crimes are committed, there will be someone complaining it's someone else's fault.

 

[Wol]

What is a "Derp a taxi"?

It's like the opposite of taxiderpy

You asked what a minicab is.

The reply probably should have been "Derp[1]. A taxi".

[1] - "A simple, undefined reply when an ignorant comment or action is made."

I think a few people need to take a step back and read what the poster is saying, and not just the spin which was posted on facebook along with it. Remember the poster doesnt mention rape, blame, fault anywhere on it, and it definitely doesnt say "It's your fault if you get raped". The poster says "You're putting yourself in danger".

I'm not sure how people can extrapolate from someone warning you of a danger to them saying "its your fault if you get raped".

So if you saw a poster at a train station saying that if you stand right on the edge of a platform when a train is arriving, that youre putting yourself in danger, would you then jump to the conclusion that the poster is saying "It's your fault if the train kills you?"

I can't in any way see how a warning of a danger can possibly be extrapolated to blame for if something happens in this sort of context.

 

[PsiSoldier]

I think a few people need to take a step back and read what the poster is saying, and not just the spin which was posted on facebook along with it. Remember the poster doesnt mention rape, blame, fault anywhere on it, and it definitely doesnt say "It's your fault if you get raped". The poster says "You're putting yourself in danger".

I'm not sure how people can extrapolate from someone warning you of a danger to them saying "its your fault if you get raped".

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Traxata]

I'm not sure how people can extrapolate from someone warning you of a danger to them saying "its your fault if you get raped".

I'm trying not to turn troll with the comment "because they're idiots" ....

 

[Zooggy]

Hoy,

I'm not sure how people can extrapolate from someone warning you of a danger to them saying "its your fault if you get raped".

I agree with this. That said, however:

So if you saw a poster at a train station saying that if you stand right on the edge of a platform when a train is arriving, that youre putting yourself in danger, would you then jump to the conclusion that the poster is saying "It's your fault if the train kills you?"

Well... it kinda is... ~

Think about it. Yellow lines and warning signs and all that jizz exist so that, when an accident eventually happens, the responsibility (and the liability) does lie with the victim.

For that very reason, people putting themselves at risk of an accident is not in the same category as people putting themselves at risk of being a victim of a crime. If I cross a busy street without looking, it's (probably) my own damn fault if I get hit by a car. However, if I leave my car unlocked on a busy street, it's not my fault if the car gets stolen.

Which basically is to say I didn't "put myself at risk" of Grand Theft Auto by leaving it unlocked. Much like I didn't "put myself at risk" of aggravated assault by not lugging around a large shotgun. (Ok, I know I'm stretching the argument, here, but I like the imagery...)

Much like I don't "put myself at risk" by entering into an unlicensed (or licensed) cab, or even any unmarked stranger's car, for any matter. People do hitch-hike without getting raped...

No, I don't extrapolate "you're putting yourself at risk" to "it's your own bloody fault", but I do extrapolate it to "part of the responsibility for this crime that you may become a victim of will be yours", and I find the statement preposterous.

Setting up an "I told you so" is bad form...

Cheers,
J.

 

[Ki!ler-Mk1]

I think a few people need to take a step back and read what the poster is saying, and not just the spin which was posted on facebook along with it. Remember the poster doesnt mention rape, blame, fault anywhere on it, and it definitely doesnt say "It's your fault if you get raped". The poster says "You're putting yourself in danger".

Yes it says putting yourself in danger, and whenever i come home after 8 my parents are like, you know its dangerous a night, to which i almost always reply why? I ask because ultimately, the time of day makes very little difference, though i do have a question, if i was to get mugged, and asper my usual self have no phone, no watch, no money, would i be in more danger than the yesman who just hands it over?

 

[Xylak]

As much as I agree it's the rapists / whatevers fault, when a woman goes out wearing the skimpiest thing she owns, she really is asking for it. When I go out (The rare times, I do.) I see tonnes of girls wearing almost nothing, and I think "What a slut."

[insult removed at the request of moderators]
This is a reprehensible comment ([insult removed at the request of moderators]).
[insult removed at the request of moderators]
[insult removed at the request of moderators]

Your statement that women in miniskirts are "asking for it" or is a "slut" is EXACTLY what is wrong in our society. A woman should be able to wear whatever she likes with no social stigma or label attached and your dumbass attitude just perpetuates the stupid notion that someone is an easy target for free sex.

OK, someone may be labelled a "slut" because she CHOOSES to sleep around with a lot a lot of people (and this is a whole other argument about the difference between men and women that sleep around) but it doesn't mean she is willing to have sex with just anyone.

Isn't that like saying if I go out looking for a bar of chocolate it's ok for some nutcase to come along and force it down my throat (no pun intended) with physical force, or at knife point? I wanted it, hell I was even stood outside Thorntons, a place renown for having LOTS of chocolate.. I was stood there practically drooling. So it's fine, right?

Well put, madam. What a superb analogy ([insult removed at the request of moderators]).



And by the way, this poster is not even a "warning". It is an advert intended to heighten fears so that people will use their service. That too is disgusting.
It's taken a lead from the anti-drink driving campaigns that show car crashes etc. but they are normally commissioned by government departments or the police.

/edit: i have just found out that "CabWise" is a Transport For London initiative - the poster is still pretty offensive none-the-less

 

[Dragon]

EDIT:

The original quote is no langer up to date and was deleted to prevent any more conflict to arise from it. However my opinion still stands so I won't edit the rest of the post. Thanks for concidering a change in your choice of words, I really do appreciate that.

FINISHED EDITING

Wether agreeing or not with any of your points what you just did is terribly wrong. As much as you may not agree with Gombol's point of view in this discussion everybody is free to post his opinion on this forum without being assaulted verbally and formost physically (and you did just that by threatening him imo). I won't post my opinion on this topic in this thread as I don't live in your country and can't say how often rape and other equivalent crimes happen in the UK, but I don't want any threats of violence on this forum, just because someone does and may be of another opinion than you are.

If you think, that Gombol's post offended you you can answer to that in an orderly manner as the "rage" argument doesn't count here imo as you had time to think about your post and were not just raging at him in real life or TS.

 

[Xylak]

Wether agreeing or not with any of your points what you just did is terribly wrong. As much as you may not agree with Gombol's point of view in this discussion everybody is free to post his opinion on this forum without being assaulted verbally and formost physically (and you did just that by threatening him imo). I won't post my opinion on this topic in this thread as I don't live in your country and can't say how often rape and other equivalent crimes happen in the UK, but I don't want any threats of violence on this forum, just because someone does and may be of another opinion than you are.

If you think, that Gombol's post offended you you can answer to that in an orderly manner as the "rage" argument doesn't count here imo as you had time to think about your post and were not just raging at him in real life or TS.

Yes, I had plenty of time to think about what he said. I spent quite a while on that post. I stand by what I said and the manner in which I said it - I wanted to be sure there was no misunderstanding of my anger and contempt at such a comment.

I don't normally agree with personal attacks for someone's point of view but, as stated, such a comment is both stupid and offensive considering the topic. It goes beyond a simple "point of view".
That kind of attitude - especially towards rape - angers me more than almost anything else and I offer absolutely no apologies for that whatsoever.

I didn't expect to be praised for it and was fully expecting something like this.

If other people think I am too out of line then I will happily quit THN and you won't ever see another post from me.

 

[thatbloke]

As much as I agree it's the rapists / whatevers fault, when a woman goes out wearing the skimpiest thing she owns, she really is asking for it. When I go out (The rare times, I do.) I see tonnes of girls wearing almost nothing, and I think "What a slut."

I hate to say it but I'm with Xylak here. I refuse to be associated with someone who holds such views. As such, Gombol is now on all of my ignore/block lists.

In addition, I will not be sharing a box with a person holding such views at a LAN. Gombol can now consider himself removed from our clanbox, with a replacement being found imminently.

While I may end up taking alot of flak from the mods on this one, I really have had enough of his consistently offensive and/or ignorant views and i've had enough of taking shit from other people for even being his friend. Consider any such friendship over.

 

[Haven]

If other people think I am too out of line then I will happily quit THN and you won't ever see another post from me.

I think you are out of line, this is a debate post. You don't have to agree with others and you're welcome to disagree. But, once you personalise threats against other members of this community you are no longer welcome.

Moderate yourself or you will be moderated. I'd also suggest you edit your post as its unacceptable in its current form.

Threatening to leave the community is a no brainier, you're welcome to come and go as long as you respect the rules so its your call as to whether you are able to do that or not.

Please edit your post otherwise we'll have to moderate it for you.

Regards

Haven.

 

[Traxata]

However, if I leave my car unlocked on a busy street, it's not my fault if the car gets stolen.

The insurance company would say otherwise (and have legal backing behind them ...)

 

[Silk]

The insurance company would say otherwise (and have legal backing behind them ...)

Insurance companies are a law unto themselves though!

Techncially a victim should never be blamed for a crime. hopefully we can all agree on that.

 

[Silk]

Also guys, just a reminder from me.. "in my opinion" no matter how much you disagree with someone, you should be able to discuss it like rational adults.

If you know that what you are saying may be inflamatory to others, then perhaps try to self moderate and re-word a bit first. Likewise if you're angry at someone, by all means debate, discuss, but let's not turn nasty. It's not in the THN spirit.

p.s. I know at time I'm as guilty as others for outbursts, but I do try learn from it, and I always feel bad if I have exploded at someone.