Being female in public is a crime

Huung

Well-Known Member
Why was the thread titled "Being female in public is a crime", when "Being a victim public is a crime" could have been more correct? I ask only because this discussion has gone mostly straight to rape and that to be raped you must be a woman, where for the most part, its more along the lines of rapists are bad but their victims DO NOT have to be women.

As you said earlier, it is only women who can, by legal definition, be raped. I must admit, by the title I had just expected Wol to be being Wol, and for the content to be something along the lines of "they should be in the kitchen making me a sandwich". Instead we've had one of the most heated discussions I've seen on THN ever in the few years I've been here.
 

Wol

In Cryo Sleep
by the title I had just expected Wol to be being Wol, and for the content to be something along the lines of "they should be in the kitchen making me a sandwich"

Bullshit. they could never make as awesome a sandwich as I. OMNOMNOMNOM.

I quite like cooking *-)

To elaborate: The thread title was a comment which had been added onto the original picture in question in the facebook thread I originally copied here.
 

Zooggy

Junior Administrator
Staff member
Hey, :)

However, if I leave my car unlocked on a busy street, it's not my fault if the car gets stolen.

The insurance company would say otherwise (and have legal backing behind them ...)

No, that is a separate issue altogether. Liability and fault are not the same at all. Let me give you an example. (Note: I was a lot younger at the time of this story, and I'm a different person, now. I'm not particularly proud of it, and I wish I hadn't done this, but what's done is done, and it's one insurance company or another, so, meh.)

Once, as I was driving, during a turn, a truck in another traffic lane overextended its trajectory just a bit, just enough that it entered my lane for a tad. I had plenty of room to give it some space within my lane, and even if it had kept coming, I had a whole other lane with no one in it. And yet, for reasons I won't go into just right now, I deliberately chose to let the crash happen. I knew I could have avoided it. The truck driver knew I could have avoided it. The police knew it too. And so did the insurance companies. Given the size of the truck and the shape of the turn, his trajectory was totally understandable. The whole thing was completely my fault, and pretty much everone knew it. Yet it was his liability, and it was his insurance company that paid to have my car fixed.

My auto insurance doesn't cover car theft, so, you know, whatever. But if it did, then yes, I would have had entered into a contract with the insurance company to take any and all reasonable measures to prevent such a theft. If my car gets stolen because I didn't lock it, it's still not my fault that it got stolen, but I am liable for it because I breached my contract.

Fault is a moral judgement. Liability is a matter of law and contract. A crime is never the victim's fault. That doesn't mean the victim can't share liability.

Cheers,
J.
 

Enya

Member
Hey, :)





No, that is a separate issue altogether. Liability and fault are not the same at all. Let me give you an example. (Note: I was a lot younger at the time of this story, and I'm a different person, now. I'm not particularly proud of it, and I wish I hadn't done this, but what's done is done, and it's one insurance company or another, so, meh.)

Once, as I was driving, during a turn, a truck in another traffic lane overextended its trajectory just a bit, just enough that it entered my lane for a tad. I had plenty of room to give it some space within my lane, and even if it had kept coming, I had a whole other lane with no one in it. And yet, for reasons I won't go into just right now, I deliberately chose to let the crash happen. I knew I could have avoided it. The truck driver knew I could have avoided it. The police knew it too. And so did the insurance companies. Given the size of the truck and the shape of the turn, his trajectory was totally understandable. The whole thing was completely my fault, and pretty much everone knew it. Yet it was his liability, and it was his insurance company that paid to have my car fixed.

My auto insurance doesn't cover car theft, so, you know, whatever. But if it did, then yes, I would have had entered into a contract with the insurance company to take any and all reasonable measures to prevent such a theft. If my car gets stolen because I didn't lock it, it's still not my fault that it got stolen, but I am liable for it because I breached my contract.

Fault is a moral judgement. Liability is a matter of law and contract. A crime is never the victim's fault. That doesn't mean the victim can't share liability.

Cheers,
J.

Why would you ever go say that my car was stolen and I left the doors unlocked? Just, you know. Lie and say that my car was stolen around this and that time and the doors where locked. It's not like they can check if you are telling the truth.
Unless they find the car and do some hi-tech CSI super computer detective work. :D

Also what you said above seems so... emm so factual... or whatever the hell the word is that I am looking for right now.
But what I am trying to say here is that insurance companies always seem to find a breech of contract and make you (victim) guilty. You would think that they pay without a hassle. But usually over here this is not the case. They always come up with some smart ass explanation.
 

Dragon

Well-Known Member
Why would you ever go say that my car was stolen and I left the doors unlocked? Just, you know. Lie and say that my car was stolen around this and that time and the doors where locked. It's not like they can check if you are telling the truth.

Also what you said above seems so... emm so factual... or whatever the hell the word is that I am looking for right now.
But what I am trying to say here is that insurance companies always seem to find a breech of contract and make you (victim) guilty. You would think that they pay without a hassle. But usually over here this is not the case. They always come up with some smart ass explanation.

BTT plox?

I'd still like to know wether rape happens that often in the UK, this discussion and things like the poster make it sound like it does.
 

Ki!ler-Mk1

Active Member
BTT plox?

I'd still like to know wether rape happens that often in the UK, this discussion and things like the poster make it sound like it does.

It is reported in the national news almost weekly (combined with attempted).

The poster just suggests that rapists drive fake taxis and and that women are less safe at night than men, i dissagree ^^
 

Traxata

Junior Administrator
BTT plox?

I'd still like to know wether rape happens that often in the UK, this discussion and things like the poster make it sound like it does.
Here Dragon.

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsampfacts2.php said:
It's much more common than people think.

Around 21% of girls and 11% of boys experience some form of child sexual abuse. 23% of women and 3% of men experience sexual assault as an adult. 5% of women and 0.4% of men experience rape. (Cross Government Action Plan on Sexual Violence and Abuse

UK population is about 62 million people.
 

Taffy

New Member
And by the way, this poster is not even a "warning". It is an advert intended to heighten fears so that people will use their service. That too is disgusting.

Why is it disgusting to make people aware of the dangers of unbooked, unlicensed minicabs? This poster is one of a series of initiatives that have been launched jointly by TfL and the Metropolitan Police, along with the British Transport Police and the City of London Police, in response to an escalation of sexual assaults committed by thee drivers of these cabs. Doing anything else, and we would be accused of shirking our duty to the public (quite rightly).

I'm interested to hear what people think we should do instead of putting up these posters? (Don't just put 'catch the rapists' or I'll hit you with a flaming stick of death :))
 

Peepee

In Cryo Sleep
I'm interested to hear what people think we should do instead of putting up these posters? (Don't just put 'catch the rapists' or I'll hit you with a flaming stick of death :))

I almost put it but then I changed my mind :D I dont want to be beaten with a flaming stick. To be honest the police aren't psyhic and can't predict where someone is going to be raped, nor can you know that someone is capable of it if they have never been caught of it before. I think the poster is fine if im honest, all it is doing is making people aware of the service. I think the comments from the facebook post are like I said before a bit of bollocks. There isn't much else the police can do apart from making sure people are aware of this service, I don't know if there are any websites that give women advice on the best ways to keep themselves safe. But who is actually going to look at it? I know I wouldn't be too fussed, most of it is common sense, making sure people know where you are planning on being ect ect..

I have myself, had occasions where I haven't fealt safe walking alone, and in those cases I always make sure that I have my phone in one hand (with 999 ready to dial believe it or not) and my keys in another.
 

Panda with issues...

Well-Known Member
Why is it disgusting to make people aware of the dangers of unbooked, unlicensed minicabs? This poster is one of a series of initiatives that have been launched jointly by TfL and the Metropolitan Police, along with the British Transport Police and the City of London Police, in response to an escalation of sexual assaults committed by thee drivers of these cabs. Doing anything else, and we would be accused of shirking our duty to the public (quite rightly).

I'm interested to hear what people think we should do instead of putting up these posters? (Don't just put 'catch the rapists' or I'll hit you with a flaming stick of death :))

Taffy: A question:

Earlier in this thread, I think you posted that there is no correlation between attractiveness and risk of rape. Are there any correlatable factors (other than unlicensed minicabs of course, which is what this thread is about) that you can say?

I.E: Geography, age bracket, time of day, income bracket, inebriation etc?
 

Dragon

Well-Known Member
Why is it disgusting to make people aware of the dangers of unbooked, unlicensed minicabs? This poster is one of a series of initiatives that have been launched jointly by TfL and the Metropolitan Police, along with the British Transport Police and the City of London Police, in response to an escalation of sexual assaults committed by thee drivers of these cabs. Doing anything else, and we would be accused of shirking our duty to the public (quite rightly).

I'm interested to hear what people think we should do instead of putting up these posters? (Don't just put 'catch the rapists' or I'll hit you with a flaming stick of death :))

Maybe alert women never to walk home alone? Or take a cab alone?

IMO walking home or anywhere else in a group significantly lowers the risk that you are attacked by anyone and/or anything.

And concerning the question of beauty: Of course a beautiful person is much more likely to be attacked than an ugly person, as well as young people will be attacked more often as old people (exceptions validate the rule in this case). But that is nothing that influences the discussion of how to solve the problem at all. You can't just say "Ok, now everyone thay I consider to be cute walks in a group while the ugly fatasses walk home alone so nobody gets hurt".

I think maybe offering more anonymous therapies for people who notice their tendency to do such horrible things could also help lowering the number of rapes occuring, if only a bit. But every rape that does not happen is worth any amount of money (notice here: MONEY and only money, there are certain things that simply can't be restricted, like personal freedom, as of course locking everyone up without questioning can lower the amounts of any crime)
 

Taffy

New Member
Taffy: A question:

Earlier in this thread, I think you posted that there is no correlation between attractiveness and risk of rape. Are there any correlatable factors (other than unlicensed minicabs of course, which is what this thread is about) that you can say?

I.E: Geography, age bracket, time of day, income bracket, inebriation etc?

I'm not a specialist, just your typical officer, so please don't take me as an expert on the matter.

Now the statistics:

Age: Highest risk factor. Females aged 16 to 19 are over 4 times more likely to be victims of a rape than any other age group.
Income: Women in low income households are more likely to suffer rape than those in middle to high income ones.
Marital Status: Single women are much more at risk.
Area: Negligible difference between urban, suburban and rural.
Employment: Students are by far the most likely to suffer sexual assault, but not necessarily rape.

It may surprise people to learn that, out of those who reported being raped in the 1998 and 2000 British Crime Survey, 56% said they were attacked by partners or ex-partners. 27% were attacked by people they were acquainted with, and only 8% were attacked by complete strangers.

My basic point is this; there are some correlatable factors when it comes to rape, but nothing that can tell you who, what, where and when an attack will happen.

Maybe alert women never to walk home alone? Or take a cab alone?
We do. We frequently have initiatives aimed at warning people of the dangers there are out there, and some simple precautions you can take to help avoid them. Sadly, however, people often don't listen to the police.

And concerning the question of beauty: Of course a beautiful person is much more likely to be attacked than an ugly person
A vulnerable person is much more likely to be attacked than an invulnerable one is. Beauty doesn't come into it (exceptions will, of course, exist. I'm talking general trends.) Rape isn't about sex; it's about power.



Using common sense, sticking with your mates, not getting so drunk that you don't know what's going on around you, and knowing how you're going to get home BEFORE you go out will greatly reduce your risk of coming under attack.
 

Peepee

In Cryo Sleep
And concerning the question of beauty: Of course a beautiful person is much more likely to be attacked than an ugly person, as well as young people will be attacked more often as old people (exceptions validate the rule in this case). But that is nothing that influences the discussion of how to solve the problem at all. You can't just say "Ok, now everyone thay I consider to be cute walks in a group while the ugly fatasses walk home alone so nobody gets hurt".

Rape has nothing to do with beauty because the act of rape is all about power and the rapist having power over their victim more than anything else. And lets not forget its not just women who get raped boys, it happens to you too.

Also you said about people not walking home on their own and not taking a taxi on their own, its not always that easy unfortunatly. Sometimes it just doesnt work that way and you end up walking alone.
 

SwampFae

Super Moderator
Staff member
Rape has nothing to do with beauty because the act of rape is all about power and the rapist having power over their victim more than anything else. And lets not forget its not just women who get raped boys, it happens to you too.
Going to go ahead and use a term I for the first time think is worth using:
Quote For Truth :)
Also you said about people not walking home on their own and not taking a taxi on their own, its not always that easy unfortunatly. Sometimes it just doesnt work that way and you end up walking alone.
This. Having someone there is not always an option. 'Tis just the way it is.
 
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